I know the major differences between a cutter and a sloop and i am seriously thinking of buying and older 37 cutter. But before i do, consider that I am 59 years old and in average health and sometimes i travel alone and when im with wife who is kinda tiny and in my age range, is not much help when physical strength is required. I understand about the smaller sails, easier to balance and easier to handle thing, but i have never been on a ketch before. We will do some cruising, but most of the sailing will be on relatively short trips and day sailing, therefore performance ( fun sailing) is more important than conveiniance. Some have told me that a ketch sails like a barge, i just want more infor from people that sail both. My basic question is......how well does a ketch perform compared to a sloop or cutter. Thanks for any help you can give me.
- Status
interesting
My yacht is a Iriwn 37 cutter. In my area are two 37' Irwin Ketch's. They both have the same height mast, so under mainsail and jib, they have to sail the same. With the Ketch, you get more steering ability, and in my opinion, better control. However, I have rarely seen them use the sail! I have no problem sailing mine. As for a barge, I would say that the displacement of the vessel has a lot to do with it. A 37' at 20,000 lb. will sail slower than one at 15,000 lb. However, the comfort factor will be lowered too. In light winds, the heavier the boat, the worse it sails, like a barge. So your friend probably menat to say that.
My yacht is a Iriwn 37 cutter. In my area are two 37' Irwin Ketch's. They both have the same height mast, so under mainsail and jib, they have to sail the same. With the Ketch, you get more steering ability, and in my opinion, better control. However, I have rarely seen them use the sail! I have no problem sailing mine. As for a barge, I would say that the displacement of the vessel has a lot to do with it. A 37' at 20,000 lb. will sail slower than one at 15,000 lb. However, the comfort factor will be lowered too. In light winds, the heavier the boat, the worse it sails, like a barge. So your friend probably menat to say that.
Thanks Letterman
Thanks for the input, but i guess i didnt make my question clear enough. First off, i didnt know Irwin made a 37 Cutter, i was looking at Endeavours and Hunters. For a given length, i wouldnt think a ketch would have much of a weight difference than a cutter. What i was told tho is that ketch's dont go windward worth a hoot and are comparatively slow for some reason. Windward ability is important to me on small trips and daysailing.... could make the difference whether i sail or motor back home. On long trips, windward ability would not be as important because you can hang around somewhere real fun and wait on the weather. By the way, Hunter and Endeavour Cutters are as fast as sloops and im sure the irin is also. The hunter and endeavour cutter 37's are about 18,000 to 20,000 lbs. I have been on some "barges" that just werent fun sailing... i better leave the brand names out of this before i start a war.
Thanks for the input, but i guess i didnt make my question clear enough. First off, i didnt know Irwin made a 37 Cutter, i was looking at Endeavours and Hunters. For a given length, i wouldnt think a ketch would have much of a weight difference than a cutter. What i was told tho is that ketch's dont go windward worth a hoot and are comparatively slow for some reason. Windward ability is important to me on small trips and daysailing.... could make the difference whether i sail or motor back home. On long trips, windward ability would not be as important because you can hang around somewhere real fun and wait on the weather. By the way, Hunter and Endeavour Cutters are as fast as sloops and im sure the irin is also. The hunter and endeavour cutter 37's are about 18,000 to 20,000 lbs. I have been on some "barges" that just werent fun sailing... i better leave the brand names out of this before i start a war.
ketch rig
On this year's Bermuda race, there was a Mason43 sloop and a Mason43 ketch. I was port watch captain on the ketch, and called most sail changes on both watches. In St.George I talked to the skipper of the sloop and found that he had carried a double reef in the same weather we had a single reef with no mizzen. Furling the mizzen was extra work in a blow, especially with a bimini in the way. The blow was downwind, so the mizzen hurt steering; another point of sail might have permitted some sailplan options not available to a sloop. Saying a ketch sails like a barge is a shallow exaggeration of the differences. If performance (or racing) is your only criteria, then you probably won't have much use for a lower aspect rig or additional mast and rigging. Cutters and ketches are often more balanced rigs that offer more sailplan options for differing conditions. Many cruisers and family boaters find dealing with several smaller sails on a large boat easier for a small crew. Even sloops in offshore races are often required to have a storm staysail setup. A mizzen is a perfect place to mount radar, hailers, etc. They may however, interfere with some self-steering vanes. Ketches are more commonly cruisers, which tend to be heavier boats anyway, so its not just the rig. I think if you ask a few more people, you will find all three sail just fine, thank you.
On this year's Bermuda race, there was a Mason43 sloop and a Mason43 ketch. I was port watch captain on the ketch, and called most sail changes on both watches. In St.George I talked to the skipper of the sloop and found that he had carried a double reef in the same weather we had a single reef with no mizzen. Furling the mizzen was extra work in a blow, especially with a bimini in the way. The blow was downwind, so the mizzen hurt steering; another point of sail might have permitted some sailplan options not available to a sloop. Saying a ketch sails like a barge is a shallow exaggeration of the differences. If performance (or racing) is your only criteria, then you probably won't have much use for a lower aspect rig or additional mast and rigging. Cutters and ketches are often more balanced rigs that offer more sailplan options for differing conditions. Many cruisers and family boaters find dealing with several smaller sails on a large boat easier for a small crew. Even sloops in offshore races are often required to have a storm staysail setup. A mizzen is a perfect place to mount radar, hailers, etc. They may however, interfere with some self-steering vanes. Ketches are more commonly cruisers, which tend to be heavier boats anyway, so its not just the rig. I think if you ask a few more people, you will find all three sail just fine, thank you.
You might
want to consider the capsize ratio. For your application, it sounds like you want a fin keel and a moderate displacement such as 10,000 #. Catalina 30's are sailed in the San Fran bay area. Check the archives at the Catalinaowners.com site. You will find that they sail all the time in 20 to 30 knts with no problem. Some talk up tp 40 knts. The sloop sail plan with a furler and provision for a storm jib would probably cover your needs. Get a main with full batten, large roach, snd double reef. If you regularly have light winds (5 -10 knts) get a tall rig .Lead all lines back to the cockpit. Outfit with all the standard safety gear and ENJOY. John
want to consider the capsize ratio. For your application, it sounds like you want a fin keel and a moderate displacement such as 10,000 #. Catalina 30's are sailed in the San Fran bay area. Check the archives at the Catalinaowners.com site. You will find that they sail all the time in 20 to 30 knts with no problem. Some talk up tp 40 knts. The sloop sail plan with a furler and provision for a storm jib would probably cover your needs. Get a main with full batten, large roach, snd double reef. If you regularly have light winds (5 -10 knts) get a tall rig .Lead all lines back to the cockpit. Outfit with all the standard safety gear and ENJOY. John
Ketch Rig
I always thought a ketch was the prettiest and most graceful looking sail rig. I always wanted a ketch because i would love the extra mast and rigging to play with in addition to the fact that the sails are easier to handle. Can someone tell me the difference betwen sailing characteristics on different points of sail betwen a ketch and a sloop or cutter? If and when i ever get resolved with my insurance company, i want to get another boat. This time i will be able to afford a larger boat.. approx 37 feetin length, which brings about another question......i have read once or twice that a ketch rig was not really efffective on boats under 40 feet. Is this true or just another old wives tale?
I always thought a ketch was the prettiest and most graceful looking sail rig. I always wanted a ketch because i would love the extra mast and rigging to play with in addition to the fact that the sails are easier to handle. Can someone tell me the difference betwen sailing characteristics on different points of sail betwen a ketch and a sloop or cutter? If and when i ever get resolved with my insurance company, i want to get another boat. This time i will be able to afford a larger boat.. approx 37 feetin length, which brings about another question......i have read once or twice that a ketch rig was not really efffective on boats under 40 feet. Is this true or just another old wives tale?
Ketches
I have a 46 Morgan ketch and have found it to sail well to windward with or with out the mizzen up. The option of a mizzen opens all kinds of opportunities to add or reduce sail. I have often sailed for an afternoon day sail and found using the jib and mizzen alone to be a great way to go.
I have a 46 Morgan ketch and have found it to sail well to windward with or with out the mizzen up. The option of a mizzen opens all kinds of opportunities to add or reduce sail. I have often sailed for an afternoon day sail and found using the jib and mizzen alone to be a great way to go.
I had a Catalina 30
We lived on a catalina 30 which we are still not sure is a victim of Katrina. I cant get in touch yet with my insurance claims adjuster. The boat dont look to bad , but i havent been able to haul it out yet. Sometimes with insurance companies, they total a vessel that aint that bad ... on the surface. Long story, but still waiting it out. We LOVED our Catalina 30 tall rig. It is a great fun boat to sail, but when im out alone and it gets really rough, even the roller furling can be a chore. We didnt ever plan on getting another boat because we love FREE SPIRIT, but now Katrina has put a kink in our lives. This is what has stimulated me to think of a bigger boat. Even thought about a catalina 34 or 36, but i think i could get myself in some real trouble with those when im alone. Hence....the cutter or ketch rig. Maybe FREE SPIRIT can be saved, who knows?
We lived on a catalina 30 which we are still not sure is a victim of Katrina. I cant get in touch yet with my insurance claims adjuster. The boat dont look to bad , but i havent been able to haul it out yet. Sometimes with insurance companies, they total a vessel that aint that bad ... on the surface. Long story, but still waiting it out. We LOVED our Catalina 30 tall rig. It is a great fun boat to sail, but when im out alone and it gets really rough, even the roller furling can be a chore. We didnt ever plan on getting another boat because we love FREE SPIRIT, but now Katrina has put a kink in our lives. This is what has stimulated me to think of a bigger boat. Even thought about a catalina 34 or 36, but i think i could get myself in some real trouble with those when im alone. Hence....the cutter or ketch rig. Maybe FREE SPIRIT can be saved, who knows?
Just a side note --
C36 is fairly 'manerly' in heavy winds seas. I know your not a young buck anymore . I think it might have a lot to do with it being a "heavy-ish" 36 and I only have the standard rig so I rarely feel overpowered and usually don't start reefing until it gets above 20 knots. I sail singlehanded alot and she does pretty well in 6-8 foot seas and 25-35 kt winds and thats just me. There are a lot of C36's that will relate the same experience. Like someone else mentioned though I wouldn't call it a great light wind boat so you might want a cruising spinaker. Not only that I know one or two C36's that turned the boat into a cutter by adding a stay sail. Not a great picture but here is a picture of a C36 Cutter stay sail
C36 is fairly 'manerly' in heavy winds seas. I know your not a young buck anymore . I think it might have a lot to do with it being a "heavy-ish" 36 and I only have the standard rig so I rarely feel overpowered and usually don't start reefing until it gets above 20 knots. I sail singlehanded alot and she does pretty well in 6-8 foot seas and 25-35 kt winds and thats just me. There are a lot of C36's that will relate the same experience. Like someone else mentioned though I wouldn't call it a great light wind boat so you might want a cruising spinaker. Not only that I know one or two C36's that turned the boat into a cutter by adding a stay sail. Not a great picture but here is a picture of a C36 Cutter stay sail
Cutter or sloop
I have a Nassau 34 cutter that weighs 14250. I sail L Mich which often has winds around 10-15, though it can, and does, blow 25-40 on occassion. A typical summer day is light air so a boat really needs a 150 to have fun on most summer days. the problem with a cutter and a 150 is that tacking is a bitch. The big genny has to come over in the small space between the staysail and the fore stay. By the time it comes around it is full of air, but no where near trimmed. This means a lot of cranking on the winch. It is actually easier to furl the genny before tacking and then unfurl it. In an area with more wind, where on would not need a 150, the yankee will tack much easier. That said - I am happy with my cutter and I am willing to put up with the inconveniece of tacking. It is a very comfortable boat in a sea and, being a full keeler, tracks beautifully. I think, for day sailing, a sloop would be a better choice. For cruising, the cutter has a lot going for it. In heavy air one can better balance the boat using the staysail.
I have a Nassau 34 cutter that weighs 14250. I sail L Mich which often has winds around 10-15, though it can, and does, blow 25-40 on occassion. A typical summer day is light air so a boat really needs a 150 to have fun on most summer days. the problem with a cutter and a 150 is that tacking is a bitch. The big genny has to come over in the small space between the staysail and the fore stay. By the time it comes around it is full of air, but no where near trimmed. This means a lot of cranking on the winch. It is actually easier to furl the genny before tacking and then unfurl it. In an area with more wind, where on would not need a 150, the yankee will tack much easier. That said - I am happy with my cutter and I am willing to put up with the inconveniece of tacking. It is a very comfortable boat in a sea and, being a full keeler, tracks beautifully. I think, for day sailing, a sloop would be a better choice. For cruising, the cutter has a lot going for it. In heavy air one can better balance the boat using the staysail.
Tom S ...dont go away
i once spoke to Catalina about making a cutter rig on my 30, they said they heard of some individuals that have done that, but with no real difference in sailing characteristics. Im curious, do the 36's you know of have yankees on the fore stay, and what kind of staysail, and do the sail like a cutter? By the way, i have/had? a catalina 30 tall rig and i love the way catalina's sail. They are fun boats. We lived on our 30 till Katrina displaced us.If Insurance company totals us, i will buy a bigger boat. If not... we know and love our 30 and my biggest problem when i single hand is tacking and jibing. I too furl in my jib when i tack when im alone, maakes life easier.
i once spoke to Catalina about making a cutter rig on my 30, they said they heard of some individuals that have done that, but with no real difference in sailing characteristics. Im curious, do the 36's you know of have yankees on the fore stay, and what kind of staysail, and do the sail like a cutter? By the way, i have/had? a catalina 30 tall rig and i love the way catalina's sail. They are fun boats. We lived on our 30 till Katrina displaced us.If Insurance company totals us, i will buy a bigger boat. If not... we know and love our 30 and my biggest problem when i single hand is tacking and jibing. I too furl in my jib when i tack when im alone, maakes life easier.
sailortonyb - Not exactly sure
I really don't think most of the C36's that are staysail rigged are using a high-cut Yankee on the forestay and the stay sail combo for a "cutter rigged" configuration. I think the few C36's use the staysail as more of a heavy weather sail alone. I guess they could sail both maybe on a beam or brod reach, but I suspect most keep the regular 135 or 155 on the forestay and roll that up and use the staysail in the heavy condtions
I really don't think most of the C36's that are staysail rigged are using a high-cut Yankee on the forestay and the stay sail combo for a "cutter rigged" configuration. I think the few C36's use the staysail as more of a heavy weather sail alone. I guess they could sail both maybe on a beam or brod reach, but I suspect most keep the regular 135 or 155 on the forestay and roll that up and use the staysail in the heavy condtions
How About a "Temporary" Cutter
Have you cpnsidered putting a properly backed padeye on the foredeck and using a storm sail with an integral wire in lieu of a permanent inner stay. This type of rig is used on sailing dinghies and might work well with smallish jib or storm sail. That way you could rig up the storm sail when it blows and still be able to tack with you genny in the light stuff. Just a thought, Kevin
Have you cpnsidered putting a properly backed padeye on the foredeck and using a storm sail with an integral wire in lieu of a permanent inner stay. This type of rig is used on sailing dinghies and might work well with smallish jib or storm sail. That way you could rig up the storm sail when it blows and still be able to tack with you genny in the light stuff. Just a thought, Kevin
ketch con't
Most of the time, the mizzen is more or less ignored and is small enough to not cause problems. Downwind, its a good pusher but can become a problem when the wind pipes up in that it tugs the stern around and is another potental jybing boom - best to douse it early. Upwind, it won't add much to your speed but gives you an option of running jig-and-jigger in stronger winds. I think reaches are its main advantage, where it adds sail area without as much heeling leverage. Besides, its a great place for cupholders or hanging your binoculars. I would tend to agree that its a bit much on boats under 40', and alot of those are probably yawls anyway. Its said that a yawl rig gives the skipper something to lean against, and serves as a tailfeather when moored. There was a Tartan27 yawl, but I'm not sure why. Having mizzen sail area works especially well on center cockpit decks, too.
Most of the time, the mizzen is more or less ignored and is small enough to not cause problems. Downwind, its a good pusher but can become a problem when the wind pipes up in that it tugs the stern around and is another potental jybing boom - best to douse it early. Upwind, it won't add much to your speed but gives you an option of running jig-and-jigger in stronger winds. I think reaches are its main advantage, where it adds sail area without as much heeling leverage. Besides, its a great place for cupholders or hanging your binoculars. I would tend to agree that its a bit much on boats under 40', and alot of those are probably yawls anyway. Its said that a yawl rig gives the skipper something to lean against, and serves as a tailfeather when moored. There was a Tartan27 yawl, but I'm not sure why. Having mizzen sail area works especially well on center cockpit decks, too.
If you do this, do you need
running backstays to balance the storm jib? It seems like you wouldn't want the storm jib to go to the masthead, but if the boat's a masthead rig, wouldn't you need some sort of backstay to balance the jib's pull?
running backstays to balance the storm jib? It seems like you wouldn't want the storm jib to go to the masthead, but if the boat's a masthead rig, wouldn't you need some sort of backstay to balance the jib's pull?
Like Rick said it all depends
But I think if I was going to add a true cutter or staysail for a storm sail on the C36 I would add some removable running backstays, there is nothhing to them and you can tie them up to the mast and out of the way when you don't need them. Its relatively very easy to add a few running backstays & much less complicated than attaching the staysail stay which needs backing and most likey you'd want a rod attachment and have it glassed to the forepeak for good support
But I think if I was going to add a true cutter or staysail for a storm sail on the C36 I would add some removable running backstays, there is nothhing to them and you can tie them up to the mast and out of the way when you don't need them. Its relatively very easy to add a few running backstays & much less complicated than attaching the staysail stay which needs backing and most likey you'd want a rod attachment and have it glassed to the forepeak for good support
Mizzen staysail !!!!
I sailed on a yawl for several years and got to know her quite well ... The biggest advantage I found in having two masts, unmentioned so far I think, is the ability to set a mizzen staysail. This is a wonderful light air sail which pulls very nicely, doesn't require much attention, etc. Lots of square footage that's real easy to handle. It's like being able to set an easily handled chute. If you really have a go-fast bug and several people to help you, you can set a chute, a spinnaker staysail, main, mizzen staysail, and mizzen. Fun. Of course, you have perhaps a dozen lines to tend ....... Lots of tradewind passages used to be made using a headsail and mizzen staysail, with the main and mizzen furled down and the booms safely in gallows. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
I sailed on a yawl for several years and got to know her quite well ... The biggest advantage I found in having two masts, unmentioned so far I think, is the ability to set a mizzen staysail. This is a wonderful light air sail which pulls very nicely, doesn't require much attention, etc. Lots of square footage that's real easy to handle. It's like being able to set an easily handled chute. If you really have a go-fast bug and several people to help you, you can set a chute, a spinnaker staysail, main, mizzen staysail, and mizzen. Fun. Of course, you have perhaps a dozen lines to tend ....... Lots of tradewind passages used to be made using a headsail and mizzen staysail, with the main and mizzen furled down and the booms safely in gallows. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
higgs ----
For relatively 'trouble free' tacking of a cutter rig - simply use a 'tracing line' (can be the SAME line used for the tack line for an asymmetric spinnaker). Run a line fromthe cockpit to a block near the bow then to the clew of the genoa. When you want to tack, simply pull the tracing line and the genoa will 'bunch' forward and easily pass between the forestay and jibstay - if the stays'l is flying (and is self-tacking) it makes it even easier. If you ever get a chance to see videos of the 1987 Americas Cup boats, they used tracing lines to get the genoas forward of quite exposed 'baby stays' .... just a pull and the genoa goes forward! If you like that arrangement get a sailmaker to add a cringle at about the 90-100% LP position to attach the tracing line. A more complicated set-up can be made by running the tracing line to a reinforced patch about 8-10 above the clew and at 90% LP for even better 'accordian-izing' of the genoa with a tracing line.
For relatively 'trouble free' tacking of a cutter rig - simply use a 'tracing line' (can be the SAME line used for the tack line for an asymmetric spinnaker). Run a line fromthe cockpit to a block near the bow then to the clew of the genoa. When you want to tack, simply pull the tracing line and the genoa will 'bunch' forward and easily pass between the forestay and jibstay - if the stays'l is flying (and is self-tacking) it makes it even easier. If you ever get a chance to see videos of the 1987 Americas Cup boats, they used tracing lines to get the genoas forward of quite exposed 'baby stays' .... just a pull and the genoa goes forward! If you like that arrangement get a sailmaker to add a cringle at about the 90-100% LP position to attach the tracing line. A more complicated set-up can be made by running the tracing line to a reinforced patch about 8-10 above the clew and at 90% LP for even better 'accordian-izing' of the genoa with a tracing line.
light smight.
Weight does not make a boat sail slowly. Not enough sail area for the displacement does and wetted area does. Many heavy boats are full keel designs which not only need more drive because of the weight but also the drag of wetted surface. Wetted surface is much more of a penalty in light air than displacement. btw. About the only thing that can be said with certainty about heavy displacement is it will be more comfortable in a seaway. Why a Cadillac 'rides' better than a Geo Metro. Ride and handling are two different things, btw. For coastal cruising, a heavy displacement boat, like a Westsail, is boring. On the open ocean, a light displacement boat can put you in survival conditions just to get from the galley to the settee in a force 3 wind. Apples and Oranges. Traditionally, identical hulls with ketch, sloop or double headsail sloop had different height spars and they were placed in different positions. The ketch's shorter mast and more forward placement are not be optimal for going to weather. Also, the mizzen typically offers no drive hard on the wind and shouldn't even be set. Going to weather is given way too much weight IMHO. It's a racer God that most of us should shun like Lucifer. A taller stick is better for light air than shorter sticks, even though they can set more sail area. Overall, a single mast rig is more efficient overall. The ketch rig comes into it's own in reaching conditions and the smaller individual sails which are easier to hand. A ketch/yawl lends itself to instant sail reduction by dropping the main for those pesky short lived squalls that come up in summer. Because of the split rig, the foretriangle should be smaller, so smaller, more easily handled sails. The same goes for the main. When it can be carried, a mizzen stay sail adds a lot of easily handled sail area. The problem is, inshore there aren't all that many times you can set the sail. On long ocean passages it's another story, however. I've had runs of a week or more where I could've set a mizzen staysail the whole time. Of course, not having a mizzen made it a little difficult. The questionis, when do you need a ketch rig?? For my money, anything less than 40' simply does not justify the expense and performance penalty of the second mast. With roller furling headails handling even huge headsails is a relatively simple task. Add slab reefing for the main, almost de riguer now, and split the headsails up with a double head sail rig and you could probably sail even a 50' boat with ease. Does that mean I would not have a two masted rig. No, I just wouldn't have it in a boat smaller than 40'. The mizzen is a great place to hang things, you can't beat the mizzen staysail when it's viable, and a seperate, independently stayed mast is a great emergency sail should the main mast come down. There is also the matter of aesthetics. I think there is nothing prettier than a classic Yawl. I'd buy, in fact, am looking for, one those of old classic yawls right now. A yawl typically carries the same height stick, in the same place as a sloop rig. The main boom may be shorter but that doesn't affect windward performance much and the mizzen makes up for the lost area of the shorter mainsail boom off the wind. You get most of the benefits of the split rig as soon as you crack off the wind with very little penalty hard on the wind. Having said that, the yawl rig had it's heyday under the CCA rule because it allowed unpenalized sail area. Had little to do with the inherent benefits of the rig. Aloha Peter O. Aloha Peter O.
Weight does not make a boat sail slowly. Not enough sail area for the displacement does and wetted area does. Many heavy boats are full keel designs which not only need more drive because of the weight but also the drag of wetted surface. Wetted surface is much more of a penalty in light air than displacement. btw. About the only thing that can be said with certainty about heavy displacement is it will be more comfortable in a seaway. Why a Cadillac 'rides' better than a Geo Metro. Ride and handling are two different things, btw. For coastal cruising, a heavy displacement boat, like a Westsail, is boring. On the open ocean, a light displacement boat can put you in survival conditions just to get from the galley to the settee in a force 3 wind. Apples and Oranges. Traditionally, identical hulls with ketch, sloop or double headsail sloop had different height spars and they were placed in different positions. The ketch's shorter mast and more forward placement are not be optimal for going to weather. Also, the mizzen typically offers no drive hard on the wind and shouldn't even be set. Going to weather is given way too much weight IMHO. It's a racer God that most of us should shun like Lucifer. A taller stick is better for light air than shorter sticks, even though they can set more sail area. Overall, a single mast rig is more efficient overall. The ketch rig comes into it's own in reaching conditions and the smaller individual sails which are easier to hand. A ketch/yawl lends itself to instant sail reduction by dropping the main for those pesky short lived squalls that come up in summer. Because of the split rig, the foretriangle should be smaller, so smaller, more easily handled sails. The same goes for the main. When it can be carried, a mizzen stay sail adds a lot of easily handled sail area. The problem is, inshore there aren't all that many times you can set the sail. On long ocean passages it's another story, however. I've had runs of a week or more where I could've set a mizzen staysail the whole time. Of course, not having a mizzen made it a little difficult. The questionis, when do you need a ketch rig?? For my money, anything less than 40' simply does not justify the expense and performance penalty of the second mast. With roller furling headails handling even huge headsails is a relatively simple task. Add slab reefing for the main, almost de riguer now, and split the headsails up with a double head sail rig and you could probably sail even a 50' boat with ease. Does that mean I would not have a two masted rig. No, I just wouldn't have it in a boat smaller than 40'. The mizzen is a great place to hang things, you can't beat the mizzen staysail when it's viable, and a seperate, independently stayed mast is a great emergency sail should the main mast come down. There is also the matter of aesthetics. I think there is nothing prettier than a classic Yawl. I'd buy, in fact, am looking for, one those of old classic yawls right now. A yawl typically carries the same height stick, in the same place as a sloop rig. The main boom may be shorter but that doesn't affect windward performance much and the mizzen makes up for the lost area of the shorter mainsail boom off the wind. You get most of the benefits of the split rig as soon as you crack off the wind with very little penalty hard on the wind. Having said that, the yawl rig had it's heyday under the CCA rule because it allowed unpenalized sail area. Had little to do with the inherent benefits of the rig. Aloha Peter O. Aloha Peter O.
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