Cutter to Yawl

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Cutter to YawlThe mother of all questions……can a Hunter 37C be turned into a yawl?. I can figure out with no trouble at all how to set up the standing rigging, extra supports , etc., etc, etc,. What I want to know is, can it be done from the standpoint that it will sail with the same characteristics as a yawl? From what I understand, a yawl rig has about the same sail area and mast placement as a sloop or cutter. But other things come into play i.e. type of keel, underwater shape of hull, CE, CLR and much much more. I would much rather have a ketch but I'll settle for a yawl. Why a yawl? Because I could set the mizzen at anchor so that the boat wont side sea or sail at anchor and also the flexibility of sails under different weather conditions. Mainly though, I want to be able to fly a mizzen staysail or a mizzen jib or a mizzen spinnaker, you know, the fun stuff.So why don’t I just go out and buy a ketch? The only Ketch's that I can reasonably get in the age/size/price range would be an Irwin 37CC…Out of the question for many reasons or an Endeavour 37, which is hard to find and Im still not sure of its sailing qualities.I don’t want a project boat and I have been looking on yachtworld and many other sights so that I know what is available and its approximate cost.I really like the Hunter 37C, I can buy one ready to sail the day I own it and play with the mizzen with my spare time/money. If it is not feasible, I can easily love a Hunter 37C as is. If a mod of this nature don’t perform, it will be a real costly mistake, one that I cant afford. And NO, I cant afford a naval architect, and I wont try this without some expert knowledge or experience Does anybody know of anyone that has tried this successfully? And where is J Cheribini II when I need him?This question is kinda bizarre and maybe to save my dignity I should not use my real name.Thanks in advance for all your help.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Good thing you're hiding!

We're loading our ammunition.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Im too far away to find? LOL

Is there such a thing as 'too far away to be found' with a question like this? I'm hopeing for some real insight though, and i'm sure i will get it.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Find a ketch.

You claim that do not want a project boat. Then why not just sail the cutter as designed? Or keep looking for the affordable ketch? I think you need 40+ feet for a yawl or ketch.I own an H37C. I cannot imagine having another mast, boom, and rigging to deal with. Especially around the helm where the weather protection from my large bimini is so important. I think the cockpit area is too small for the conversion. But I do think you could find a good sail balance with help from an architect. My less than two cents.

 

[t rahaim]

try an island trader

redoing a mast and rigging setup is a tremendous undertaking- look at the island trader 37- heavy boat with a ketch rig- biggest problem is the teak decks but pulling them up and redoing would probably be cheaper and easier than reengeneering a hunter.

 

[avalonduet]

Yawl?????

Not all that sure, but I don't think you could squeeze a mizzen aft of the rudder post (a yawl, by definition), on a 37c. My 37c is very well-behaved at anchor, does very little, if any side-sailing, and is very easily managed at sea with its cutter rig. Don't know what JC II would say, but if you get a 37c, I'd say leave the rig alone.Dave

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Who Said?

I think the mizzen behind the rudder post is only one of the criteria. Todays modern boats have the rudder post much further aft than the older styles. I think some other criteria that differentiates a ketch from a yawl is a percentage of the distances and locations of both masts, also sometimes used might be the height of the mizzen which should be directly proportional to the sail area ( usually 10 to 15% for yawl and 20% for ketch). Kinda like comparing a double headstayed configuration to a true cutter. I don’t know all the math involved, but someday I might look it up. Food for thought: mount mizzen in front of steering column? Would look like a ketch, but would it be?If a few inches had to be cut from main boom, would this reduce some of the weather helm?I don’t know what J. Cherubini's thoughts were when he designed the 37C (which incidentally, I think is a great boat, that is why this subject has come up in the first place), but as a retired engineer, I can state that the best designs are not always practical.. dollar wise. A great design is a very good design for the money. As we say in the trade "you cant build gold fly swatters to kill cockroaches". And yes, i was really hoping J. Cherubini II would see this and respond and hopefully put my insanity to an end.BTW, i am really enjoying the input and am hoping for more.Thanks

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Yawl or Y'all

Yawl or Y'all? I may be way off base, but i thought that a yawl was more or less a sloop/cutter with a tail feather. I think i would love to sail 'jib and jigger' in rough weather...what a rush!!! and still have the speed and agility of a cutter for day sailing or weekend sailing.

 

[David11054]

Standard advice

for all of us is don't mess with the design of a boat. The 37c is a great cutter. Making it into a second rate yawl will certainly dump your resale value. A riding sail is easily rigged, and will hold any boat steady at anchor.If you want a ketch or a yawl, buy one! There are plenty of possibilities available beyond those you describe, and you will be much happier with the a design set up from the beginning for what you want.IMHO, of course.DavidLady Lillie

 

[Dave Stone]

I was told

by my Cheoy Lee 40 yawl owning uncle that a yawl rig was basically a sloop with the jigger added to balance the helm in really light air.I believe that a sloop of equivilent size would have a "j" of 14 to 15 feet instead of 17 as does the 37C. That would mean the mast is too far aft for a yawl.Shortening the main boom to lessen weather helm will be useless if you then add 10 or 15% more sail area five or so feet farther aft. Unless the jigger is only used in very light air to induce a little weather helm. There is a small "sail" that can be hoisted on the backstay to calm things at anchor. I don't remember the name but that would be a whole lot cheaper & simpler than a jigger. I can't say it won't work but I do believe you'd be better off with a yawl or a complete rig re-design to change to a yawl. I don't think its as simple as adding a mast.Good luck with it & if you do it & it works, I hope you write to us & brag about it.Dave StoneCon DiosH37C