The staysail runs up the forestay. The head of the boom for the staysail is about a foot and a half behind the forestay attachment at the deck. The sail, therefore, has a laced section on the bottom half of the luff that allows the bottom of the sail to line up with the boom. The problem. This setup causes the sail itself to crinkle in the middle and not fill out properly. If the staysail connected to the forestay, without the lacing, it would be perfect. Except it would be a foot and a half in front of the boom head and, the head (?) would connect to the turnbuckle of the forestay. Since the sail connects to the boom only at two places, the head and clew, I don't know that it would matter much. The real problem is the sail isn't cut properly to fit the usage. Does anyone get understand this and have a solution?
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this is pretty confusing
You staysail should have its own stay. not the head stay but the but back several feet. the sail should work fine with the clew to the boom and the out haul there. then the sheet control the boom placement. with this set up the outhall just establishes the foot tension and the sheet attaches to the boom to control sheet angle. The lacing from the foot to the boom is unnecessary. most staysails have a loose foot. I hope this helps. look on the site for pictures of the hunter 37 c. there are several picts there of cutters sailing.
You staysail should have its own stay. not the head stay but the but back several feet. the sail should work fine with the clew to the boom and the out haul there. then the sheet control the boom placement. with this set up the outhall just establishes the foot tension and the sheet attaches to the boom to control sheet angle. The lacing from the foot to the boom is unnecessary. most staysails have a loose foot. I hope this helps. look on the site for pictures of the hunter 37 c. there are several picts there of cutters sailing.
Forestay?
Are you sure the staysail connects to the forestay? I don't have a cutter rig, but I always thought the jib used the forestay and the staysail had it's own seperate halyard, and may not even need a stay in some models.
Are you sure the staysail connects to the forestay? I don't have a cutter rig, but I always thought the jib used the forestay and the staysail had it's own seperate halyard, and may not even need a stay in some models.
Hey Tom is this on the Hunter 37 cutter
if so, the boom for the staysail "clamps" around the forward-inner stay above the turnbuckle, then a short wire rope pendant run from bottom of the forward end "gooseneck" of the boom down to a padeye on the deck just aft of the chainplate. The rope lacing that runs by/through the first two or three hanks on the jib is adjustable and helps take some of the weight of the boom off of the luff of the sail and the wire pendant holds the boom from rising too much when the halyard is tensioned. I don't have a loose footed sail. Any help?
if so, the boom for the staysail "clamps" around the forward-inner stay above the turnbuckle, then a short wire rope pendant run from bottom of the forward end "gooseneck" of the boom down to a padeye on the deck just aft of the chainplate. The rope lacing that runs by/through the first two or three hanks on the jib is adjustable and helps take some of the weight of the boom off of the luff of the sail and the wire pendant holds the boom from rising too much when the halyard is tensioned. I don't have a loose footed sail. Any help?
intersting responses
my 37c has a post on the deck behind the staysail stay and the boom does not hook to sail at all. mines a 1984.
my 37c has a post on the deck behind the staysail stay and the boom does not hook to sail at all. mines a 1984.
Stays'l on a cutter rig ....
The staysail runs up the forestay. *** the Genoa/Yankee is flown on the jibstay. The staysail is flown from the forestay (as it used to be called the forestaysail - for good reason) ... and the forestay isnt necessarily the stay at the 'front' of the boat. The head of the boom for the staysail is about a foot and a half behind the forestay attachment at the deck. *** good as the draft of the staysail will automatically increase as the boom swings open from the centerline. The sail, therefore, has a laced section on the bottom half of the luff that allows the bottom of the sail to line up with the boom. **** NO !!!! the lacing (jackline) solely attaches the piston hanks and the grommets of the luff section of the staysail to the forestay .... This is so that when you take down the staysail the lacing becomes very loose and you can 'tie' most of the staysail back on the boom. To prevent the 'crinkling' the lacing should be 'just tight enough ... so that when the staysail is fully loaded with its halyard tension that all the lacing is tight and ***parallel*** between the forestay and the luff of the sail. If the staysail is 'crinkled' it means that the lacing is too tight and is not allowing the luff to fully stretch out in the lower section. Try 'easing' the lacing or replace it with new lacing. When set up correctly the laciing (jackline) is very tight, but allows the staysail luff to be straight (uncrinkled) and tight enough so that the sail can easily withstand 50-60 kts of wind without distorting the 'connection' between all the hanks and the sail luff. The lacing is ONLY involved with the forestay and the luff of the sail .... it is in NO WAY connected to the boom, etc. The problem. *** see above This setup causes the sail itself to crinkle in the middle and not fill out properly. If the staysail connected to the forestay, without the lacing, it would be perfect. Except it would be a foot and a half in front of the boom head and, the head (?) would connect to the turnbuckle of the forestay. Since the sail connects to the boom only at two places, the head and clew, I don't know that it would matter much. **** the staysail should only be connected to the boom at the outhaul ONLY .... no other 'connection' on the boom. All the lacing (jackline) is for attachement to the forestay, etc. , NOT the boom. The real problem is the sail isn't cut properly to fit the usage. Does anyone get understand this and have a solution? BTW ... a staysail set up for beating should be set up with Very tight halyard tension so that entry curve of the luff is 'radical' at the luff .... not a 'smooth' luff shape that you get when there is low halyard tension. This will cause the position of maximum draft to be located in the front 20-25% of the sail ... and the middle and aft sections of the staysail will be FLAT. When beating dont expect to see that the staysail is 'drawing' ... as there will be little windpressure on the sail especially if it is flown under a large overlapping genoa. In this manner the staysail will greatly reduce mast turbulence which will make the mainsail perform much better which in turn will make the genoa perform better ... and the boat will point higher and with greater speed. When beating, just remember that the staysail 'does NOT have to be 'drawing' to make the *entire* sail plan very efficient. For sailing angles other than beating, of course, you can open the draft: ease the halyard and ease the outhaul to make the sail 'perform'. Other -- with a boomed staysail (unless the boom is a 'HOYT" stayboom) consider to add a vang to the boom so that boom cannot lift when the boat is reaching, etc. If the boom is permitted to lift then the upper section of the staysail will become 'unstable'/stall and you will have to overtrim the foot of the sail to quiet the 'flutter' in the upper sections .... and then the sail becomes almost 'worthless' --- not drawing in the upper sections and overtrimmed (stagnating) in the lower sections. If you need, I'll take a few digital pics of my staysail attachment and send them to you. BTW the same lacing (jackline) system can be used on the lower sections of a mainsail ... to avoid the 'crowding' and bunching of a heavy weight mainsail - especially for a second or deeper reef. Hope this helps ... If you need more info, etc. "lemmeknow".
The staysail runs up the forestay. *** the Genoa/Yankee is flown on the jibstay. The staysail is flown from the forestay (as it used to be called the forestaysail - for good reason) ... and the forestay isnt necessarily the stay at the 'front' of the boat. The head of the boom for the staysail is about a foot and a half behind the forestay attachment at the deck. *** good as the draft of the staysail will automatically increase as the boom swings open from the centerline. The sail, therefore, has a laced section on the bottom half of the luff that allows the bottom of the sail to line up with the boom. **** NO !!!! the lacing (jackline) solely attaches the piston hanks and the grommets of the luff section of the staysail to the forestay .... This is so that when you take down the staysail the lacing becomes very loose and you can 'tie' most of the staysail back on the boom. To prevent the 'crinkling' the lacing should be 'just tight enough ... so that when the staysail is fully loaded with its halyard tension that all the lacing is tight and ***parallel*** between the forestay and the luff of the sail. If the staysail is 'crinkled' it means that the lacing is too tight and is not allowing the luff to fully stretch out in the lower section. Try 'easing' the lacing or replace it with new lacing. When set up correctly the laciing (jackline) is very tight, but allows the staysail luff to be straight (uncrinkled) and tight enough so that the sail can easily withstand 50-60 kts of wind without distorting the 'connection' between all the hanks and the sail luff. The lacing is ONLY involved with the forestay and the luff of the sail .... it is in NO WAY connected to the boom, etc. The problem. *** see above This setup causes the sail itself to crinkle in the middle and not fill out properly. If the staysail connected to the forestay, without the lacing, it would be perfect. Except it would be a foot and a half in front of the boom head and, the head (?) would connect to the turnbuckle of the forestay. Since the sail connects to the boom only at two places, the head and clew, I don't know that it would matter much. **** the staysail should only be connected to the boom at the outhaul ONLY .... no other 'connection' on the boom. All the lacing (jackline) is for attachement to the forestay, etc. , NOT the boom. The real problem is the sail isn't cut properly to fit the usage. Does anyone get understand this and have a solution? BTW ... a staysail set up for beating should be set up with Very tight halyard tension so that entry curve of the luff is 'radical' at the luff .... not a 'smooth' luff shape that you get when there is low halyard tension. This will cause the position of maximum draft to be located in the front 20-25% of the sail ... and the middle and aft sections of the staysail will be FLAT. When beating dont expect to see that the staysail is 'drawing' ... as there will be little windpressure on the sail especially if it is flown under a large overlapping genoa. In this manner the staysail will greatly reduce mast turbulence which will make the mainsail perform much better which in turn will make the genoa perform better ... and the boat will point higher and with greater speed. When beating, just remember that the staysail 'does NOT have to be 'drawing' to make the *entire* sail plan very efficient. For sailing angles other than beating, of course, you can open the draft: ease the halyard and ease the outhaul to make the sail 'perform'. Other -- with a boomed staysail (unless the boom is a 'HOYT" stayboom) consider to add a vang to the boom so that boom cannot lift when the boat is reaching, etc. If the boom is permitted to lift then the upper section of the staysail will become 'unstable'/stall and you will have to overtrim the foot of the sail to quiet the 'flutter' in the upper sections .... and then the sail becomes almost 'worthless' --- not drawing in the upper sections and overtrimmed (stagnating) in the lower sections. If you need, I'll take a few digital pics of my staysail attachment and send them to you. BTW the same lacing (jackline) system can be used on the lower sections of a mainsail ... to avoid the 'crowding' and bunching of a heavy weight mainsail - especially for a second or deeper reef. Hope this helps ... If you need more info, etc. "lemmeknow".
Nomenclature is Both Art and Science
Mike, Our sail & stay nomenclature is inherited from the tall ships of yesteryear. Many terms are not applicable anymore to our relatively simple rigs, or are re-interpretations of older rigging configurations. On a cutter the forward-most stay is the headstay; the inner stay is the forestay. (The staysail's full name is forestay-sail). On sloops, the forward-most stay is still technically the headstay, but is often referred to as the forestay, since the chance of confusing this stay with anything else is zero (and it is the first stay forward of the mast, so that line of logic goes). "Jibstay" can also be used to describe the forward stay on a sloop, but it is a bit archaic today. This is the stay the jib is attached to ("jib" being the forward-most sail, and by definition non-overlapping), and on modern craft, this is usually the front-most sail. Of course, when the sail overlaps the mast, it is a genoa (but then you'd hardly say it was on the "jibstay", would you?). A yankee flies forward (and above) the jib, but some folks like this colorful term, and refer to a non-overlapping headsail on a sloop as a yankee, esp. if its foot is cut relatively high. Although IMHO, we really don't use yankees anymore, you could probably get away with this term on a cutter.
Mike, Our sail & stay nomenclature is inherited from the tall ships of yesteryear. Many terms are not applicable anymore to our relatively simple rigs, or are re-interpretations of older rigging configurations. On a cutter the forward-most stay is the headstay; the inner stay is the forestay. (The staysail's full name is forestay-sail). On sloops, the forward-most stay is still technically the headstay, but is often referred to as the forestay, since the chance of confusing this stay with anything else is zero (and it is the first stay forward of the mast, so that line of logic goes). "Jibstay" can also be used to describe the forward stay on a sloop, but it is a bit archaic today. This is the stay the jib is attached to ("jib" being the forward-most sail, and by definition non-overlapping), and on modern craft, this is usually the front-most sail. Of course, when the sail overlaps the mast, it is a genoa (but then you'd hardly say it was on the "jibstay", would you?). A yankee flies forward (and above) the jib, but some folks like this colorful term, and refer to a non-overlapping headsail on a sloop as a yankee, esp. if its foot is cut relatively high. Although IMHO, we really don't use yankees anymore, you could probably get away with this term on a cutter.
Just to pick nits ... 
Stays'ls fly from stays, permanent rigging... (hence the name) Jibs are flown on their luff rope or wire or a temporary stay from the bowsprit. The bowsprit can be stowed on deck in heavy weather and no stay that leads to the removable part of the sprit is needed to hold the rig up in a blow. The Forestays'l flies from the furthest forward permanent stay, usually at the stem of the boat. When the sprit is rigged the jib balances the extra area aft of the mast when the topsail is rigged above the gaff. Both the topsail and the jib come off before the main gets reefed ... On the most simple rigs the main and forestays'l are the working sails, topsails, jibs and yankees are light weather canvas. Oh ... what? Wrong century? Sorry ... never mind ... BTW Rich has it right about the jackline and staysail boom.
Stays'ls fly from stays, permanent rigging... (hence the name)
Jibs are flown on their luff rope or wire or a temporary stay from the bowsprit. The bowsprit can be stowed on deck in heavy weather and no stay that leads to the removable part of the sprit is needed to hold the rig up in a blow. The Forestays'l flies from the furthest forward permanent stay, usually at the stem of the boat. When the sprit is rigged the jib balances the extra area aft of the mast when the topsail is rigged above the gaff. Both the topsail and the jib come off before the main gets reefed ... On the most simple rigs the main and forestays'l are the working sails, topsails, jibs and yankees are light weather canvas. Oh ... what? Wrong century? Sorry ... never mind ... BTW Rich has it right about the jackline and staysail boom. Cutter confusuion - nit/nil response
Now, now boys, both Moody and Rich know what they are talking about, but can't we beat our chests at the pub? These mates are in need of sound advice, and I don't wanna see 'em trying to pupp in a bowsprit and lose they're rig by the board when they unhook the forestay to pull it in; no jokes pleeeze! 1) It is a cringle not a grommet, clew, reef or luff-foot. 2)In Moodys day, clipper ships (like 'Flying cloud) they oft called it an inner jib; THE STAYSAIL. 3) A 'babystay' is what most folks call the wire that goes 2/3rds up the mast that you hank on the 'staysail' to, commonly called a "stays'l" (then theres "looward" and many others) Among top-gallents, top-royals, belaying-pins and jollly-rogers, there are also, gollywobblers, fishermen, and trys'ls that are in use too. It is a "clubfooted" stays'l, never called a boom, but if it causes less confusion, call it a bannana. I myself grew up with nautical terms, and love the folklore & salt of it, but with novices, and others I use the 'safest' terms, safety and the weather rules.
Now, now boys, both Moody and Rich know what they are talking about, but can't we beat our chests at the pub? These mates are in need of sound advice, and I don't wanna see 'em trying to pupp in a bowsprit and lose they're rig by the board when they unhook the forestay to pull it in; no jokes pleeeze! 1) It is a cringle not a grommet, clew, reef or luff-foot. 2)In Moodys day, clipper ships (like 'Flying cloud) they oft called it an inner jib; THE STAYSAIL. 3) A 'babystay' is what most folks call the wire that goes 2/3rds up the mast that you hank on the 'staysail' to, commonly called a "stays'l" (then theres "looward" and many others) Among top-gallents, top-royals, belaying-pins and jollly-rogers, there are also, gollywobblers, fishermen, and trys'ls that are in use too. It is a "clubfooted" stays'l, never called a boom, but if it causes less confusion, call it a bannana. I myself grew up with nautical terms, and love the folklore & salt of it, but with novices, and others I use the 'safest' terms, safety and the weather rules.
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