Current Design Thinking on Spade Rudders?

[Rick D]

Thanks for participating in this forum. It is really a pleasure to have you share your thoughts.

It seems more production contemporary boats are cruising with a corresponding rudder failure rate. Some appear to be corrosion between the skeleton and shaft. Others appear to be from collision or snags. I know Hunter tried composite shafts, but my understanding is they went back to S/S because the composite shafts might fail without warning after having been overstressed by grounding or other. I guess the ultimate defense is to simply carry an emergency rudder rig. I suppose fully-supported rudders give up too much in terms of maneuverability and wetted area and I suppose, cost. All of my boats have been spade rudder and my experience with a cut-away full keel attached rudder and a fully-supported skeg is that they handled like dogs in terms of maneuverability. So, to wind up the question, is there anything newish in the design community or are the trade-offs unacceptable. Or, is the failure rate just so small in terms of the whole fleet as to make this a problem not worth solving?

BTW, GREAT job on the Hunters. You brought them another level of respect.

 

[Ross]

I guess that there are very good reasons for the desire for very maneuverable boats but like airplanes the more maneuverable they are the more demanding they become of the pilot/helmsman. I rather like the idea of a rudder supported at both ends and the assurance that it won't leave the ship without me. There is a good reason for the simile "like a ship without a rudder".

 

[Ray T]

Ive noticed more boats particularly the racers are going to a cassette with bearings top and bottom that you insert the rudder into. To me this looks like a very strong setup. If for some reason you should break a rudder its very easy to extract the broken piece and install a new rudder. The 216 has this and I think the new Santa Cruise 37 has one although I might be mistaken on that one. Anyway if you carry a spare rudder and break one you could change it almost instantly.

 

[Ross]

Ive noticed more boats particularly the racers are going to a cassette with bearings top and bottom that you insert the rudder into. To me this looks like a very strong setup. If for some reason you should break a rudder its very easy to extract the broken piece and install a new rudder. The 216 has this and I think the new Santa Cruise 37 has one although I might be mistaken on that one. Anyway if you carry a spare rudder and break one you could change it almost instantly.

I'M sorry but your thinking treats a lost rudder like a flat tire! It is not just an inconvenience it is a disaster that could cost you your boat or your life.

 

[Ray T]

I'm not trying to make light of losing a rudder. If you had ever seen the cassette with the Vera rudder inserted you would understand what I was trying to say. Barring other damage changing a rudder is easier than changing a flat tire

 

[Ross]

I'm not trying to make light of losing a rudder. If you had ever seen the cassette with the Vera rudder inserted you would understand what I was trying to say. Barring other damage changing a rudder is easier than changing a flat tire

Have you ever had the pleasure of changing a flat tire at night in a thunderstorm?

 

[ghen]

The VARA system we use on the 216 is only practical with high aspect rudders. The shoal draft of the keel limits how deep the rudder can be so a lower aspect ratio rudder is demanded. The drum would need to be such a large diameter that it is impractical. I think rudder failure is at no higher of a rate as in the past. There are more rudders being used and communication is so much better. I almost suffered catastrophic rudder failure when I was cruising on my Ohlson 31. It was a Swedish built Van de Stadt design with a full keel and rudder attached to the aft end of the keel. It was a 1970 vintage design. The gudgeon at the bottom had nearly failed due to corrosion. I caught it when scrubbing the bottom of the boat. The lesson is to periodically inspect the system. The spade rudder has so many advantages and is structurally sound. Any system can suffer failure when accidently overloaded.

 

[Searider]

Can someone recommend an emergency rudder for a Hunter 466? The swim steps is an obstacle for me. Also, what about a recommendation for a windvane for the swim step configuration.

Thank you...

 

[Rick D]

Searider

Check with Hunter. I was told two years ago by a factory rep that a factory rig was available. Also, it may be a time to talk to someone there that can respond to your other questions verbally. I don't think you will get written answers from anyone given today's tendency to litigate everything. Also, where is your boat? Is it in Coral? We will be down following the Ensenada race.

 

[Rick D]

Emergency Rudder

These guys offer an emergency rudder which is, I understand, similar to what Hunter offers. They also have a self-steering rig which will fit the open transom and will serve as a back up rudder. http://www.selfsteer.com/products/sos/index.php