Curley Mast

[finding41]

I raised my mast in the driveway yesterday for the first time. I just lifted it my self and was surprised how easy it was. ( I am used to raising ladders though.)
Before I raised it I measured the length of the wire to the spreaders from the top down I noticed they were different by 1 1/2" and 4" too long! The manual I have says 11' so I set them at that. When I got the boat I knew the mast was bent to some degree. It looks as if it had been laying on its side on the boat with a tarp over it and maybe snow held it down about the middle. (That's a guess. The PO doesn't know what happened either. He got it that way and it sails fine... I know that if you lay it bent side down it will almost touch the cabin.)
So when I got it up it pointed at the neighbors house and I thought that wasn't right so I started adjusting the shrouds or stays?
In the first picture of my mast in the air. I have labeled it. The picture is from starboard and the other side is exactly opposite. So whats loose on the starboard side is tight on the port side.
The 2nd picture is he shape of the mast before I tightened the tight shrouds mentioned above. The more I tighten the more it straitens....
IMOH. The mast looks like it is raked hard to the back. The for stay is tight but could be tightened another 1-2". The aft stay is loose.
Any suggestions?

 

[zeehag]

the bend is there when not tightened down??/ rigging isnt supposed to be very tight--does it equalize when equally tight both sides yet not too tight?

 

[DeniseO30]

If you boat looks like this, it's a fractional rig. The backstay if tight will bend the mast back very easily. If you loosen the backstay and it doesn't go back to straight I could be bent from Over tension

 

[finding41]

That's my boat. I'm wondering if the aft stay was cranked too tight at one time. With the spreaders being at different heights and too low... might be the cause of the wow?

 

[watercolors II]

Position of certain items

Your mast will have a bend in it towards the stern, don’t worry about that.

The side bend is your problem!

Keeping the forestay tight and the backstay loose, will tighten the mainstays and help take all the kinks out of them. Also loosen the baby stays to allow the mainstays to become tighter!

With this rig setup the wind load on the sails is what tightens everything up, using the forestay pulling will act as the sails pushing the mast forward. The backstay must be loose to let the forestay pull.

The first thing you want is the very top of the mast to be exactly perpendicular to the sides of the boat, the mainstays will move that top left or right. Using the main halyard from the top of the mast stretch it down to the gunwale inline with the mast, move to the exact same spot on the other side of the hull. Adjust the mainstays till the measurement with the main halyard is the same, this places the top of the mast directly over the center line of the boat.

Now, laying on your back and the top of your head touching the base of the mast, your feet toward the stern, sight up the sail slot in the mast. I can see from your photo that the center is bowed to the left. Adjust the baby stays till the center of the mast, the spot where the babystays are attached, is lined up with your sight up the mast slot and the top of the mast. You may have some bend in-between these 3 positions, your eyes, the center and the top of the mast.

Feel how tight your mainstays are now, make the babystays just a little looser.

After the top of the mast is in alinement and the center of the mast is also lined up tighten the backstay till it’s not tight but, it’s not loose.

Last loosen the forestay till it is real loose, so you can grab it up as high as you can and move it back and forth 6 to 8 inches from side to side. Everything should be in the right position but, may not look like it.

Go sailing!

When the wind loads up the sails, this will take out what little bend was left in the mast and also straighten out the backstay and forestay kinks The higher the winds the better the job will be done. When your done sailing the rig may look like it did before you went sailing, kinks in the stays and the top the mast to one side because there’s no pressure pushing it forward.

Everything should be set right where it should be but, one thing! Where should the top of the mast be when it comes to forward or backwards to the center of the hull, we set it from side to side!

Only sailing will tell you this, it’s call weather helm and that is another topic to address after you become familiar with your boat and sailing.

 

[justsomeguy]

Rotated the pic for you.

Made my neck hurt. Yow! She's got quite a bow. I like my rigging a little tighter than others. Keeps down the shock loads.

 

[finding41]

Thanks..
In the above picture the port stay is very tight and the starboard baby stay is very tight. That mans the other corresponding stays are loose. What is happening is the port stay is pulling the top of the mast over to the right and the starboard baby stay is pulling the middle (ish) of the mast to the right. Will this work its way strait or get worse?
I think I might get it out on the water in a week or two and try it as is and if it is a problem then I'll try and straiten it.
It's kind of overcast today so I'll try and get a video of it to put on you tube. That should show the amount flex in the rigging.
The video is up on YouTube now.

 

[justsomeguy]

Thanks..
In the above picture the port stay is very tight and the starboard baby stay is very tight. That mans the other corresponding stays are loose. What is happening is the port stay is pulling the top of the mast over to the right and the starboard baby stay is pulling the middle (ish) of the mast to the right. Will this work its way strait or get worse?
I think I might get it out on the water in a week or two and try it as is and if it is a problem then I'll try and straiten it.
It's kind of overcast today so I'll try and get a video of it to put on you tube. That should show the amount flex in the rigging.

I'd hate to tell you it's toast, so;
As you'd written, one way the mast will get _somewhat_ straighter is to adjust the upper and lower shrouds to counteract that bow.You can pull on the shrouds while sighting up the mast to see how much effect you'll get.
You may need to loosen shrouds on the opposite sides to get enough movement in the desired direction. I guess I'd start by loosening the port lower shroud, sighting up and pulling in on the starboard.

Looking at your first pic from the side, it also seems to have a lot of aft bend at the top, before any real backstay tension is introduced. The backstay is usually adjusted first, for a slight aft rake. When the boat's on the trailer, it can be difficult to determine what "vertical" is, in relation to the boat. When you put her on the water, it'll be easier to judge.
Without a tension gauge, you may be able to get things close enough by plucking and listening. It works for me. The lower shrouds should be less taut than the uppers, so they don't pull the center of the mast aft. Got a manual?

I wouldn't sail her in brisk winds or gusty conditions with the rigging so loose.

 

[s sauer]

I would somewhat agree with Watercolpors; first tighten your uppers to center the mast in the boat, checking with themain halyard measuring equal distances to both toe rails.
Slowly tighten the headstay, then the backstay to a reasonablly vertical position; however back off if the top mast bend starts to be increased. Then use the starboard lower to pull the center of the mast to starboard,with the port lower loosened. If you can get to a substantially vertical luff grove on the mast , just snug the port lower and go sailing. The bend may not come out of themast , but at least it isn't kinked and efforts to 'straighten it' off the boat may result in more significant damage.

 

[chp]

I have a similar problem with my mast. When it is down there is a slight bend just below the lower shroud. I also had a lot or rake that I had problems getting out last year. This year I was determined to try to get the mast straight. My first thing was to get the forestay tighter. I knew it was not tight enough last year, but with the furler its a pain to adjust. I also have turnbuckles on all my cables. I now have only a small amount of rake and I have the option of adding a lot more with the backstay. As for the side bend, this took a bit of work. Would have been better to have some help. Once I had tension on all the shrouds it only took about 1 to 2 turns to make a considerable change to the bends in the mast. It took the better part of an hour and a half of loosening one side and tightening the other and sighting up the mast to get it right, but now my mast is pretty straight.
I'm tempted to try to straighten the bend in a jig, but for now I can keep it straight with the shrouds.

 

[finding41]

CHP: Let me know if you do decide to bend it in a jig. I'm a few hours away and wouldn't mind helping.... maybe bring my mast along. I've seen a few mast straitening things on you tube.... I am going to be asking at the local yacht club to see if there is any thing to be aware of or tips. I'll pass on what I find out.

 

[chp]

If you have turnbuckles you may be able to fine tune the tension to straighten out the bend. I don't know how much you can fine tune with the plates. My boat came with the turnbuckles. If I decide to try to staighten it out I will let you know. It probably wouldn't be until the end of the season unless I see it get worse, but I doubt it.
I take it you will be sailing lake Erie. I hope to get to long point sometime over the summer.

 

[justsomeguy]

If there're any mech engineers willing to shower us with work-hardening cautionaries, are we doing the same thing that a straightening jig(or fixture) might do, when we bend the mast with our shrouds?

 

[watercolors II]

chp, if you straighten the mast with the stays why would you want to or risk damage in trying to straighten it by another method.

The mast and rigging on the Macgregors are very light weight so when sitting at the dock everything doesn’t look right as compared to the other boats in the marina. Your mainstays as well as the two babystays all are attached behind the base of the mast location. You have 4 stays and a backstay all pulling towards the stern with only the forestay pulling forward.

A lot depends on how your sails are cut, because on all other sloop rigged boats the forestay should be loose. If your forestay is loose then all 5 stays pulling backwards is going to be loose when not under load from the wind on the sails.

How you got your rigging set and mast straighten is the way you would do it on any other sailboat, taking all of the rake out of your mast may cause problems with your boat pointing well in an up wind beat. Most Macgregors have more rake than most other sailboats.

Next time sailing check for weather helm, this would be the amount of pull on the tiller on an up wind sail. You want to feel a little pressure on the tiller trying to keep the boat going in a straight line, what would be ideal is for the tiller to be pulled 3 to 4 degrees to windward on this up wind beat. If you do not feel or see this then you may have straighten your mast too much.

 

[finding41]

I got the outboard going today and one side of the rudder fiberglassed. If its not rainng tomorrow I will glass the other side of the rudder and drop the mast in preparation for travailing to the yacht club. I want to get it in the water to see what level is and start mast tuning from there. I'll also get another chance to check the lengths of all the wires. I didn't do this yet. OOPS. That might be where all the problems stem from.
Can anyone point me to any info on how long the stays, etc are supposed to be? Lengths for all the standing rigging would be great!
At the club it looks like I'm one of the younger members, so I'm expecting a bunch of ideas on how to straiten and tune it form the more senior members. (The lucky retired ones.)
The turnbuckle idea is looking like a good one. It is kind of tough getting the pin in the hole while pulling hard and cursing. Not to mention that silly little ring....can't admajine ever dropping one of those in the water.
If I decide to put a come-along on it and reef I'll have a place to do it out there. There's lots of room and trees to tie it off to. That's a last resort though.

 

[centerline]

If there're any mech engineers willing to shower us with work-hardening cautionaries, are we doing the same thing that a straightening jig(or fixture) might do, when we bend the mast with our shrouds?

I have straightened all types and shapes of metal.... thick and thin, and in my opinion you will not get the mast straightened properly trying to do it on the boat with the stays..... you will only cause it to bend elsewhere that isnt damaged yet.(and possibly overstressing the boat) and the reason is because it needs accute support to cause it UN-bend where you want it to. a generalized support will not let the pressure build in a concentrated spot to remove the bend from where its at. if a bend is removed within a couple of hours of being bent, it will take much less effort to straighten, but if it is left for a day or more, the metal will take a set and it will be more difficult to straighten than it was to bend in the first place. (this is due to the heating and cooling effects on the metal between daytime and nightime tempertures)
if you can get any bend in it at all with the stays in the reverse manner, you are more than likely going to put a long sweep in the mast.
it CAN be straightened. and dont worry about work hardening it to the point of ruining it.
the hardest part is going to be supporting it so that it doesnt crush when you get to pulling on it. support is everything. put the time and effort in to building good supports to either jack or pull against, and the actual straightning will be quick and effortless.

 

[Bill Roosa]

I'm with centerline, drop the mast, spend some time building some load spreading supports where you need them and then tug on it with a come-along (with another load spreading support). and go SLOWLY! checking the set as you go.
I'm thinking that while in storage the mast just took a set from being support on too few supports. two supports toward the middle and the mast on its side plus winter snows would be all it would take.
Or you could just reverse the side of the mast you store it on next winter and it should straighten itself (sic).

 

[finding41]

Yea I kind of figure it can't be done up in the air. I don't think it was snow load that bent it because the bend would be raked toward the front. (With the mast up.)That's a very hard way to bend it because of the mast shape with the main slot down.
It looks like it would have to be lying on it's side to get the bend that's in it.
Moat likely the bend was created by a PO backing it into something and it going the only way it could. Tough to know for sure. But thats what I was thinking when I was backing it up the other day. I plan to drop it tomorrow and will take a closer look at the top and bottom to see if there is impact damage. I didn't notice anything before but wasn't looking for any thing.
Coated the other side of my rudder with fiberglass today. I'll sand and fair it tomorrow and then one last seal with resin then paint. Then back on the boat and off to the yacht club to see if it floats.