My brother threw this one at me, and I was without an intelligent response. He's got a 2 yr old little girl and an itch to bareboat charter, probably the BVI. Major question is: In general, how old does the wee one need to be before she can be expected to navigate the decks with reasonable safety. Brother is not interested in leaving her with a sitter, and also not interested in confining her belowdecks or keeping a life vest on her while at anchor. Being childless, I couldn't even give a BS answer.
Cruising with small children
- Thread starter Mike Davis
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Few Points
Well I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old. We did a bunch of day sails this past summer on our Catalina 30 and a couple of overnighters last summer - its not easy but when it works its the greatest thing in the world. First off - the PFD is a must regardless of where they are on the boat. Mine wear them at all times except when sleeping in the cabin. The child's personality is going to determine the success of the voyage. My son (2 yrs old) likes to get involved in everything I am doing - if I am trimming the head sail, I have him on the opposite winch with a line around it. My daughter on the other hand likes to play with her puzzles and books. Be prepared with many activities and toys as well as a means for them to get off the boat frequently (i.e. kayak, etc). Sounds rather risky taking a 2 year old out on a charter - how long will you be away? An overnighter for the first time out may get hectic but just be prepared with lots of things and activity. Rob
Well I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old. We did a bunch of day sails this past summer on our Catalina 30 and a couple of overnighters last summer - its not easy but when it works its the greatest thing in the world. First off - the PFD is a must regardless of where they are on the boat. Mine wear them at all times except when sleeping in the cabin. The child's personality is going to determine the success of the voyage. My son (2 yrs old) likes to get involved in everything I am doing - if I am trimming the head sail, I have him on the opposite winch with a line around it. My daughter on the other hand likes to play with her puzzles and books. Be prepared with many activities and toys as well as a means for them to get off the boat frequently (i.e. kayak, etc). Sounds rather risky taking a 2 year old out on a charter - how long will you be away? An overnighter for the first time out may get hectic but just be prepared with lots of things and activity. Rob
A family with young children .
The children should wear a PFD even if they can swim any time the boat moves. The two adults should also wear a PFD when the boat moves. First off, if the child goes over, I hope one adult will be in the water right after them. The adult that remains on board should be the skilled operator of the boat. They wear a PFD because everyone else is and because they are on the boat alone and in a situation, may be more likely to make a mistake. At anchor, if there is a sizable current, I would say PFD. If no current, cockpit but no deck if a none swimmer. Even if they are a swimmer or non swimmer with a PFD, they should report going forward so that you can observe and be on your guard. A one knot current and an anchored boat can create a big distance in a short period of time. Safety is not always comfortable, but it is comforting. Stay on the safe side. A mistake in this area, even if it turns out no one gets hurt,it can be traumatic. The number of children can also change some of the PFD freedom rules to be safer. just an opinion. r.w.landau
The children should wear a PFD even if they can swim any time the boat moves. The two adults should also wear a PFD when the boat moves. First off, if the child goes over, I hope one adult will be in the water right after them. The adult that remains on board should be the skilled operator of the boat. They wear a PFD because everyone else is and because they are on the boat alone and in a situation, may be more likely to make a mistake. At anchor, if there is a sizable current, I would say PFD. If no current, cockpit but no deck if a none swimmer. Even if they are a swimmer or non swimmer with a PFD, they should report going forward so that you can observe and be on your guard. A one knot current and an anchored boat can create a big distance in a short period of time. Safety is not always comfortable, but it is comforting. Stay on the safe side. A mistake in this area, even if it turns out no one gets hurt,it can be traumatic. The number of children can also change some of the PFD freedom rules to be safer. just an opinion. r.w.landau
Appreciate the input thus far
To clarify the point, my brother is wondering whether his anticipated cruise with his little girl is 2 yrs away, 4 yrs away, etc. He knows it won't be this year. For what it's worth, they do go out on his ski boat routinely, so she is used to the idea (and doesn't object to it) of wearing a pfd while driving that boat around. He's primarily wondering about at anchor, and the combined hazards of her climbing around on deck (beyond the cockpit) and going overboard in general. Sounds about what I thought it would, but you guys are the experts on this one, not me!
To clarify the point, my brother is wondering whether his anticipated cruise with his little girl is 2 yrs away, 4 yrs away, etc. He knows it won't be this year. For what it's worth, they do go out on his ski boat routinely, so she is used to the idea (and doesn't object to it) of wearing a pfd while driving that boat around. He's primarily wondering about at anchor, and the combined hazards of her climbing around on deck (beyond the cockpit) and going overboard in general. Sounds about what I thought it would, but you guys are the experts on this one, not me!
a numbers game
Cruising with young children? In my experience, it's a numbers game. The numbers are simple, try to have adults outnumber the children (or at least be equal). For us, with two children (now 7 and 5) the whole experience has always been better if we have 3 experienced people onboard. I usually hand over the helm (always appreciated by guests) and spend the time with the children. Kids love it, guests love it = we love it. As for PFD's. When my wife and I sail with the children, we all wear them. If a child goes in, so does my wife. I'll get the boat around to both of them. If I go in, she'll get the boat around, but I'm calculating that it may take a little longer - so I'll use the PFD. One interesting debate is for inflatable PFD's is self inflating better? I think not, since in the child overboard drill followed by parent overboard, there may be some swimming involved, and that's not too easy once they have inflated.
Cruising with young children? In my experience, it's a numbers game. The numbers are simple, try to have adults outnumber the children (or at least be equal). For us, with two children (now 7 and 5) the whole experience has always been better if we have 3 experienced people onboard. I usually hand over the helm (always appreciated by guests) and spend the time with the children. Kids love it, guests love it = we love it. As for PFD's. When my wife and I sail with the children, we all wear them. If a child goes in, so does my wife. I'll get the boat around to both of them. If I go in, she'll get the boat around, but I'm calculating that it may take a little longer - so I'll use the PFD. One interesting debate is for inflatable PFD's is self inflating better? I think not, since in the child overboard drill followed by parent overboard, there may be some swimming involved, and that's not too easy once they have inflated.
Make the PFD fun
My grandchildren are never on the boat without the pfd We bought " character" pfds for each started with "Scooby do" and graduated to other characters as they got older and we make a big deal out of everyone wearing their " Scoobies" Children watch what you do and might hear what you say If Dad or Pop Pop wear it child wants to as well The example you set in this is just like you do in other facets of child rearing and making it a fun thing to do never hurts t
My grandchildren are never on the boat without the pfd We bought " character" pfds for each started with "Scooby do" and graduated to other characters as they got older and we make a big deal out of everyone wearing their " Scoobies" Children watch what you do and might hear what you say If Dad or Pop Pop wear it child wants to as well The example you set in this is just like you do in other facets of child rearing and making it a fun thing to do never hurts t
you know you are good
Cheers! You know you are good if you can navigate the waters as well as navigate the dogs and children.
Cheers! You know you are good if you can navigate the waters as well as navigate the dogs and children.
What's His Sailing Experience?
What all of the others say, I echo... especially about the PFD's. But, one variable nagged at me as I read your notes. Your notes did not mention your brother's sailing skills, just powerboat experience. If your brother is an experienced sailor with 30 ft. plus sailboats it sounds like a great family adventure! If he is not an experienced sailor and/or has no experience with larger sailboats, he very well could be endangering all that is dear to him. BrianW
What all of the others say, I echo... especially about the PFD's. But, one variable nagged at me as I read your notes. Your notes did not mention your brother's sailing skills, just powerboat experience. If your brother is an experienced sailor with 30 ft. plus sailboats it sounds like a great family adventure! If he is not an experienced sailor and/or has no experience with larger sailboats, he very well could be endangering all that is dear to him. BrianW
Here is what we did
We lived aboard for three years and our son was 2 1/2 at the time we stepped aboard our new Coronado 35 home. One thing is for sure...YOU NEED SAFETY NETTING AROUND THE BOAT. I doubt a charter vessel will have safety netting as this was one of our greatest safeguards. As a rule we always had our son in a life vest, which took awhile for him to get used to, especially in subtropical heat. He also had a safety line or tether. During motoring the tether was not attaced to the vessel for fear that if their was an explosion or fire he would not be attached to the ship! During sailing; however, his safety line was attached to the vessel. We never had an issue in the three years we lived aboard. I credit the safety netting and peace of mind over the safety vest that kept our nerves intact. If your taking a toddler on a vessel for any length of time getting them acclimated to a safety vest well before the voyage is paramount. Have the child wear the vest several hours a day to get used to the feel of it. My feeling about this is, if you decide to charter and allow the child some freedom (in the cockpit for example), your going to have one very upset and irritated kid on your hands if they do not take well to the lifevest. And you will wonder why you ever decided to bring them along to begin with! My 2-cents? Enjoy the time together as a couple and leave the child at home with grandma. Bob
We lived aboard for three years and our son was 2 1/2 at the time we stepped aboard our new Coronado 35 home. One thing is for sure...YOU NEED SAFETY NETTING AROUND THE BOAT. I doubt a charter vessel will have safety netting as this was one of our greatest safeguards. As a rule we always had our son in a life vest, which took awhile for him to get used to, especially in subtropical heat. He also had a safety line or tether. During motoring the tether was not attaced to the vessel for fear that if their was an explosion or fire he would not be attached to the ship! During sailing; however, his safety line was attached to the vessel. We never had an issue in the three years we lived aboard. I credit the safety netting and peace of mind over the safety vest that kept our nerves intact. If your taking a toddler on a vessel for any length of time getting them acclimated to a safety vest well before the voyage is paramount. Have the child wear the vest several hours a day to get used to the feel of it. My feeling about this is, if you decide to charter and allow the child some freedom (in the cockpit for example), your going to have one very upset and irritated kid on your hands if they do not take well to the lifevest. And you will wonder why you ever decided to bring them along to begin with! My 2-cents? Enjoy the time together as a couple and leave the child at home with grandma. Bob
Children and PFDs
I have a question: How do you convince children to wear PFD's if none of the adults do? I see this often on the bay. Is this a "do as I say not as I do" thing?
I have a question: How do you convince children to wear PFD's if none of the adults do? I see this often on the bay. Is this a "do as I say not as I do" thing?
do as I say not as I do usually doesn't work
because it sets up an adversarial contest that no adult is going to win. Try: "We can leave the dock and go boating as soon as you have your lifejackets on." Their response will be: "But you don't have your's on!" Just slowly repeat: "We can leave the dock and go boating as soon as you have your lifejackets on." Repeat as necessary. It's a positive way to avoid making it a me vs. them argument because you're consistent and don't change your message. And please note, it's MUCH different than saying: "We aren't gonna leave unitl you get your life jacket on!" because then you never get to leave because they won't put it on and guess what you've just talked yourself into? Works in a lot of other situations, too. >>>>>>>>>> If the kid's 2 years old, she's old enough to learn to swim.
because it sets up an adversarial contest that no adult is going to win. Try: "We can leave the dock and go boating as soon as you have your lifejackets on." Their response will be: "But you don't have your's on!" Just slowly repeat: "We can leave the dock and go boating as soon as you have your lifejackets on." Repeat as necessary. It's a positive way to avoid making it a me vs. them argument because you're consistent and don't change your message. And please note, it's MUCH different than saying: "We aren't gonna leave unitl you get your life jacket on!" because then you never get to leave because they won't put it on and guess what you've just talked yourself into? Works in a lot of other situations, too. >>>>>>>>>> If the kid's 2 years old, she's old enough to learn to swim.
2nd season Granny
We have a now 3&1/2 yr old that has been sailing with us for 2 seasons. Explain the rules regarding life jacket& safety. Assist them up& down the ladder till you are comfortable not hanging on to them, then just be there for support. Praise them everytime they go up/down correctly or remember a rule with out prompting. Have a treat for them when they deserve it. It will take a few times away from the dock before they are comfortable sitting anywhere other then your lap. My grand daughter now wants to take the helm& assit me while sailing. I hold on to the helm but let her think she is steering reminding never to try this without me.She loves it when we bury the rail doing 7kts.I have a tether line to attach to the back of her life jacket if the wind picks up& I am going to be busy. She knows to sit where I tell her and not to try& climb around when we are busy. Good luck but most of all ENJOY. Most important talk to them like they are adults about safety, they understand& remember more then a lot of adults. Fair winds, Brenda& Max
We have a now 3&1/2 yr old that has been sailing with us for 2 seasons. Explain the rules regarding life jacket& safety. Assist them up& down the ladder till you are comfortable not hanging on to them, then just be there for support. Praise them everytime they go up/down correctly or remember a rule with out prompting. Have a treat for them when they deserve it. It will take a few times away from the dock before they are comfortable sitting anywhere other then your lap. My grand daughter now wants to take the helm& assit me while sailing. I hold on to the helm but let her think she is steering reminding never to try this without me.She loves it when we bury the rail doing 7kts.I have a tether line to attach to the back of her life jacket if the wind picks up& I am going to be busy. She knows to sit where I tell her and not to try& climb around when we are busy. Good luck but most of all ENJOY. Most important talk to them like they are adults about safety, they understand& remember more then a lot of adults. Fair winds, Brenda& Max
Mike. you said at anchor. I have to say the
current is the biggest problem at anchor. Even if someone is a swimmer, the current is the biggest factor with a person overboard while at anchor. The main boat cannot go after the MOB and if the tender is not ready to go, there is a problem. While on Sombrero (SP) key near Marathon a few years ago, I had to jump into our dingy to help an older fellow and his partner. One went swimming and the other was in a rowing dingy. Well the swimmer got tired and the dingy guy could not make headway. The two were getting very anxious. I jumped into our tender and motored them back to their boat. The current was running at my guess close to two knots. Throw a small child in and if the adult goes in after, there is a high possiblity that the adult will make no headway back to the boat. The adult should have a pfd or floatable available because it may be a while before someone can help. I have account of two situations like this. One was at Elliot Key. The current rips through there. Anchoring is even tough some times. I watched a grown man dive in and could not make it back to his boat. It was a good thing that there were at least 500 boats down stream of him. He climbed aboard a boat about 200 feet down current and waited for his tender to pick him up. There are mooring just outside of Port Everglades, Ft. Lauderdale, my sister dove in after my dad's sun glasses and was barely able to out swim the current to get back on the boat. He had no tender and had an inexperienced crew aboard. I was not there, it was a story told to me by my dad. Just some info, r.w.landau
current is the biggest problem at anchor. Even if someone is a swimmer, the current is the biggest factor with a person overboard while at anchor. The main boat cannot go after the MOB and if the tender is not ready to go, there is a problem. While on Sombrero (SP) key near Marathon a few years ago, I had to jump into our dingy to help an older fellow and his partner. One went swimming and the other was in a rowing dingy. Well the swimmer got tired and the dingy guy could not make headway. The two were getting very anxious. I jumped into our tender and motored them back to their boat. The current was running at my guess close to two knots. Throw a small child in and if the adult goes in after, there is a high possiblity that the adult will make no headway back to the boat. The adult should have a pfd or floatable available because it may be a while before someone can help. I have account of two situations like this. One was at Elliot Key. The current rips through there. Anchoring is even tough some times. I watched a grown man dive in and could not make it back to his boat. It was a good thing that there were at least 500 boats down stream of him. He climbed aboard a boat about 200 feet down current and waited for his tender to pick him up. There are mooring just outside of Port Everglades, Ft. Lauderdale, my sister dove in after my dad's sun glasses and was barely able to out swim the current to get back on the boat. He had no tender and had an inexperienced crew aboard. I was not there, it was a story told to me by my dad. Just some info, r.w.landau
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