Cruising trim verses racing trim

[Don Guillette]

Shipmates: Some sailors feel there is a racing way to trim sails and a cruising way to trim sails. There isn't. There is only a right way or a wrong way!! Do you know who said that? It was Dennis Conner and I agree with him. Both cruisers and racers have to trim their sails, reef and sail in all wind conditions. Both cruisers and racers have to know the wind and weather and how to steer the boat to get the most out of it. Racers have to adjust their sail more frequently but the adjustment for a particular wind condition and point of sail is the same whether you are a racer or cruise. SPEED verses tactics is another hot item with racers and it should be with cruisers also. To me, speed is everything. I mean you have to know what your doing from a tactical stand point but rarely will tactics beat the speed/tactic sailor. From a cruising standpoint, say you were going to a point that took 12 hours. Did you know that a half knot increase in boat speed, which is a realistic difference between good and bad sail trim, would save you 1 hour!!A lot of mates don't like Dennis Conner. If you ever met him you would like him. I got into big arguments on another site about Dennis and the way I answered them was, if Dennis called you and asked you to sail with him, would you?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Right On

DonFinally a breath of fresh air. Thanks.It really doesn't matter whether you're racing or cruising. Why not just set the sails properly all the time?I've found, having done both, that one of the only differences between a race and a cruise is that during a race a whole bunch of people end up being at your waypoint(s) at the same time. The other is that you tend to keep more sail up a bit longer when racing, but still have to reef when necessary.Otherwise, it's great to trim sails properly and get the most out of your vessel.Thanks again for the post and your work on the book and this 'site.Stu

 

[Don Guillette]

Stu: Talk about keeping your sails up. The absolute best Catalina 30 National Regatta or for that matter any race I've EVER raced in was in Santa Cruz a couple of years ago. There were 19 boats in our group and the winds were in excess of 40 knots. One C30 was dismated and 2 lost their mains. We raced the whole series without a reef. Not because we wanted to but because we had to. The guys chasing us were not reefed so we could not either.The finish was neck and neck the entire last leg of the last race against a good friend of mine from Santa Cruz. Both of us were fighting for 1st in the series. We tried everything to pass him - right up to almost "rubbing paint" with him but we just could not shake or intimadate him and pull ahead. At the finish, our bow was between his bow and mast. That is how close it was. It was the most exciting racing of my entire sailing career. We took an overall 2nd at that regatta and normally I hate 2nd, but it was OK at Santa Cruz. I wrote an article about that regatta for the Catalina Mainsheet magazine called "Who are those guys?" after the Butch Cassidy film, where the posse is chasing them all over the place. Why the title was appropriate was because we saw the eventual winner get tied up at the start line and discounted him as a contender but out of no where he shows up on our stern and we went at it from there. That sucker and his crew never gave up.The guys I crew with at the C30 Nationals come from all over the US and we race at venues all over the US. We each have the ultimate confidence in each other. I never thought twice about racing in those conditions with these guys, where I would never go out in those conditions were it just with my wife and myself. I love telling that story. My friend Max Munger, who is the sect/tres of the C30 National Assoc and our skipper tells me that the story gets better every time I tell it!!

 

[Alan]

Don

I can feel your blood pressure rising with every word. I've seen a different side of you now. BUT I know exactly what you mean. I had a race a few years ago against a boat that we had been sailing against for 2 years without beating. This was a distance race (65miles) and we were trailing him for 55 miles. Finally we were able to pull close to him and at the finish we were 5' behind his bow. We corrected out way ahead, he owed us 15 sec/mile. Since then he has never beaten us. His comment to us as we crossed the finish line..." racing against you is like a trip to the dentist"

 

[Don Guillette]

To anyone that is following this thread you can see how exciting racing can be but it is not for everyone. Actually, I enjoy cruising much more than racing and always did. I don't race much anymore. I cut way back after my wife said "you seem to like those racers so much, why don't you go live with them!!". Oopps, now I only do the C30 Nationals, which will be held in Seattle this year plus a very few local stuff. Last year, the C30 National was held in San Fran.Anyway, it may be interesting to some to read how I got into racing in the first place. After many years in high speed jet race boats, I decided to get back into sailing. I bought a MacGregor 22 at Lake Havasu, AZ. I thought I'd jump in it and just take off but none of the skills I had as a kid came back to me so I decided to take lessons in Newport Beach, Ca. $800 later I was good at backing, flaking sail and working the head, but I had no idea what the wind was doing to my sails. I was so bad that I had to mark an "S" and a "P" on the boom, without the instructors knowledge, so I knew which tack I was on. When the instructor asked me about the tack I'd just look up and if I saw the "S" I knew I was on starboard. He could not believe how fast my response was!!I then decided to learn sail trim by racing. I contacted winning skippers about a crew position and we had nice conversations until we got to my experience. The calls ended with them telling me they would get back to me. The same thing happend to me in high school when I asked the best looking girl on campus to go to a prom!!. She did not call back either.I then responded to an adv at West Marine for a pickup crew. I thought I was the only sailing idiot on the boat but come to find out I was not alone as no one knew anything - most of all the skipper.After that, I felt that sail trim is not like building an atomic bomb and that I could learn it myself. It took me about 6 months of extensive research plus testing every single principle you see in my book and chart on my C30 - some worked for me and some didn't. Obviously, I kept what worked.In the end, I could not believe how simple sail trim actually is. Turns out I was my own worse enemy. I made it too complicated. My goal, which is a labor of love, is to make sail trim simple as I don't want anyone to go through what I went through to learn how to sail a boat.

 

[Don Guillette]

Poling out

I bought a wonderful, used Nor'sea 27 a year ago. The boat came with two extendable downwind poles. It has only a single forestay and there's no chute in the extensive sail inventory. My question is, what in the hell do I do with that second pole? I believe most folks see no advantage to flying two headsails off of a single forestay and I am not interested in installing a second one. So do I consider the second pole just a back up?Thanks,Al

 

[Don Guillette]

AL: Nice looking boat. Where do you keep it? Almost looks like the marina in Long Beach.Since you don't want to do anything with the second pole and I assume they are identical in operation and length, just keep it as a spare.

 

[Alan]

Al

You can fly one headsail hanked on and the second unhanked and set each on a pole wing and wing. Very effective for downwind work in lighter air.

 

[Al Fink]

The Nor'sea

The boat sails at 9300' on Lake Granby Colorado in the summer; 2d largest body of water in the state. I wanted to take it to Pensacola for the winter but Pensacola went away, didn't it? Now on Lake Texoma where they build those lovely Valiants (same marina actually) and I haven't seen it since Thanksgiving and am jonesing seriously.Thanks for reminding me about the second headsail going up with the first one but flying loose of the headstay. I remember reading about that. Any suggestions about hanking on the head and the tack at the foot?

 

[Al Fink]

Nor'sea picture

Pardon for forgetting - the picture of the Nor'sea was taken in a location about as far from Southern California as you can get out west: Bellingham, WA where I bought it a year ago.

 

[Richard]

reefing and speed

Still new at this...but I thought that under very high winds, the boat could go faster when reefed as it will reduce the amount of heel...?

 

[Vic "Seven"]

Wait a minute ... There is a BIG difference ...

Racing trim is a bit on the overpowered side with the famous "pinch up in the puffs" motto.Cruising trim is a bit underpowered with the famous "Lock the wheel down, time to have a beer" motto.Ain't no one can tell me they are the same and keep a straight face.Vic

 

[Alan]

Al

Set a second shackle where you tack the first headsail and hoist the second sail the way you would a spinnaker.

 

[Alan]

Vic "Seven"

You're right about the mind set, but sailing theory and sail trim are the same regardless. If one skipper is pushing for every 1/100th kt and the other could care less, doesn't change the fact that there is a right way to trim sails and drive the course. The cruising skipper typically won't make the needed adjustments whether or not he knows how. If he were constantly triming sails he'd be maximizing boat speed (what all racers are striving for)

 

[Don Guillette]

Vic "seven": Well, I'm telling you with a straight face and looking you straight in your eye while I tell you that a cruiser sets the sail trim controls for his main and jib for a given set of wind conditions and point of sail exactly as a racer does it. Both go through the same steps for each control for the main and jib regardless if you are overpowering the boat or underpowering it. The racer may push it more and the cruiser may be a bit lazy but if they are trimming their sails correctly "there is only a right way and a wrong way".

 

[Vic "Seven"]

I love it when people say Only One Way ...

But now answer the question ... does everyone have to trim for maximum speed, narrow slot? How about the instructions from the autohelm people on depowering a bit so that the autohelm works better? Is that wrong? How about a recent comment in regard to backwinding the main where you say it is neither good nor bad? One designers seem to like to backwind the main to depower instead of reefing. Would you say that backwinding the main then is not right and reefing is "the correct way?"Or am I missing this black and white ... no gray discussion?Cruisers are different from racers ... to lump racers who think nothing of socking down the vang to break booms to get the best and only "shape" ... with cruisers who are after a comfortable easy ride ... may be too much. But then again I do agree that racers when not racing do seem to trim differently. Perhaps the perfect racing trim is a little bit expensive to keep running all the time?