Crown Head Problems

[Joanne C]

Please Help! We have a Raritan Crown Head and have replaced the entire bottom unit from Raritan and now we cannot get raw water to come into the bowl. We have tried everything including priming, putting a snake through the hose, greasing the intake pump and replaced the first intake pump. We still can't get the impeller to build pressure into the pump. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as we have exhausted our limited expertise in this area.

Thank you,
Joanne C

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

There are several possible explanations.

See #2 in the trouble-shooting guide on page 5 in the owners manual. http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/crown_head/L91crownheadv1002.pdf

Running the impeller dry will "fry" it...so all your other efforts may have solve the problem, but now the impeller can't pull water in any longer. If a new impeller doesn't finally solve the problem, give Vic Willman at Raritan a call on Monday...he's the only one to talk to! 800-352-5630 x 6.

What in the world made you choose the Crown Head? It draws a whopping 36 amps/flush and needs 1-3 gal. water/flush! It IS a virtually indestructible work horse, a great toilet for a fishing trawler or tug or any work boat...but a toilet that uses that much power and flush water is a strange choice for a sailboat.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Did you move any hoses?

Sounds like your anti siphon valve is stuck open. If you moved or bumped the hoses and the valve has not been serviced in a while it could just need a cleaning. You should hear the air being sucked in when you operate the head BTW.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You may have accidentally stumbled onto something, Bill...

The Raritan Crown Head is an electric macerating toilet, so it's unlikely that an anti-siphon devices has been installed. And since they just replaced everything south of the bowl, I'd guess that the hoses have been "disturbed," but it's logical to assume to that it has been cleaned sometime in the last decade.

But if there is one, and if it's correctly installed between the lower base unit and the bowl, it would not prevent the pump from priming. But if they put it in the intake line between the thru-hull, that could very well explain why the intake pump can't prime.

Putting it in the wrong place would also be the only thing that could make it suck in air...'cuz the pump wouldn't pulling water OR air through the line and any loop between the pump and the bowl...it PUSHES water to the bowl.

How have you managed to read the posts in this forum for as many years as you've been here without learning that???

 

[Bill Roosa]

You are of course correct Peggy

I'm clearly having a senior moment.

 

[Bill Roosa]

William the elder

Perhaps the hoses are reversed.
When you operate the unit do you see bubbles coming from the thur hull?

 

[Joanne C]

Thanks for the suggestions. Yesterday we reversed the polarity by switching the wires on the replaced unit and it sucked water into the bowl like a champ the way it used to when working properly and the macerator sucked water into the bowl. We will call Raritan AGAIN tomorrow and see what they have to say. At this point we would like to put a different head altogether in but don't want to have major plumbing reconfigurations. Any suggestions for a total replacement?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The easiest replacement is a Raritan SeaEra

And I strongly recommend you do it! Your existing bowl will fit right on it...you'll prob'ly have to drill a couple of mounting bolt holes, but that's just about it. In fact, Raritan recommends replacing the Crown lower base with the SeaEra lower base because it draws 16 amps (vs the Crown's 36) and only uses about 1/2 gal of flush water (vs the Crown's 1-3 gals)...and it's considerably quieter than the Crown. The SeaEra is also available in both sea water and pressurized fresh water versions. Read all about it here: Raritan Sea Era

Your toilet pulled in flush water when you reversed the wires because that caused the DISCHARGE impeller to pull in water (macerator is just a "blender blade" that doesn't pump anything...it can't suck any water). So unless your toilet is plumbed to discharge directly overboard, where'd that water come from??? That would indicate that haven't been able to get any flush water because your toilet intake thru-hull is closed, or blocked...or some other plumbing problem, not problem with the toilet...at least not till you fried the intake impeller trying to get water. It doesn't take a lot of friction heat to destroy one.

You definitely need to talk to Vic on Monday...ONLY Vic...no one else! He's been there more than 35 years, and has forgotten more about everything Raritan has ever made than anyone else will ever learn.

 

[Joanne C]

Re: The easiest replacement is a Raritan SeaEra

Hello, and thank you for the responses. I am taking water directly from the thru-hull into the boat. The hose connected to the thru-hull fitting is clear and water is running. We had a diver check and snake the fittings from the outside in and we did the same from the inside to the outside. The hoses are clear. When connected properly positve and negative the macerator pumps out of the bowl and discharges over board and the raw water intake to the bowl does nothing. Each time I have turned the motor on the back tube has been filled with water and the impeller has been well greased to avoid frying it. When I reverse polarity neg to positive and positive to negitve the raw water intake fills the bowl with water but the macerator now also filles the bowl with dirty water rather than emptying the bowl. My concluion is that the pump is not working properly. Both the macerator and raw water intake are running in the same direction. Should they be running in the same direction or in opposite directions?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Everything should be running in the same direction

Water should be pulled in one end, go through the pump and bowl and continue on out the other. If you look at the exploded drawing in the owners manual, you'll see how that's supposed to work. I have a feeling that some time spent with the exploded drawing and the intake pump assembly MIGHT also reveal why your intake pump isn't pulling in any water.

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/crown_head/L91crownheadv1002.pdf

One more time: A macerator cannot pump anything...it's just a "blender" type chopping blade (part # CH121 on the exploded drawing in the owners manual) that only purees solid waste and TP. It's impellers in toilets and macerator pump that pump liquids...and there are two of 'em in your toilet. The intake impeller (part # G15) pulls in flush water...the discharge impeller (part # CH119MW) pulls waste/water out of the bowl and pushes it down the the toilet discharge line.

Now that we have that settled (I hope)...If both the intake impeller and the discharge impeller are pulling water into the bowl, the water has to be coming from opposite directions and meeting in the bowl. And if the discharge impeller IS pulling water--clean OR dirty--INTO the bowl, there's no way it can pull anything OUT of the bowl at the same time!

Call Vic on Monday!

 

[Head Master18695]

Re: Everything should be running in the same direction

This was a "new" rebuilt unit that they were having problems with, and based on discussions over the phone, I wasn't able to figure out what was going on with it. Another one was sent out by Raritan and they received it this morning. He had to go to work today (sigh) so wasn't able to install it today. When I get the original one back, we'll evaluate it and try to figure out what's what with it.

 

[Head Master18695]

Re: Everything should be running in the same direction

Got a call this morning, the problem was with the plumbing on the boat. The replacement toilet motor/base unit was NOT the problem. I appreciate the owner calling and letting me know; a lot of people wouldn't have extended that courtesy.

New electric toilet assemblies are all pre-tested before leaving the factory and rarely, if ever, are problematic immediately upon receipt. Rule of thumb: If the new toilet unit, upon re-installation using the original hosing won't pump out the bowl, stop right there. Disconnect the discharge hose from the toilet. Then get a short length of discharge hose and connect that to the toilet, with the other end leading to a bucket. If it works correctly, check all your lines beyond the toilet. If it doesn't pump to the bucket, then the toilet's at fault - but only then.

All too often, people will tend to over-think the problem when the actual problem is staring them right in the face. Any time the plumbing is disturbed, there's a chance that buildup that was inside the hose has broken loose inside the hose, and is now causing a clog. Whenever possible, when replacing the head, it's always best to also replace the hoses. Plus, there's always the obvious - the seacocks were closed when disconnecting the head. Were they opened again after installing the new one?

 

[Joanne C]

Thank you all for your help, especially Peggy for her advise and introducing us to Vic at Raritan. Since speaking with Vic we have made great progress, his knowledge is amazing. We still have not resolved our problem in total but things are getting better. After two complete bottom units from Raritan and still having the same issue it was confirmed that we had a boat problem not a Raritan problem, sorry Raritan we falsely accused you of sending a bad unit. Yesterday we replaced the seacock that goes to the holding tank or pump overboard just in case that was part of the problem. We had all the hoses off and they were all snaked and appear to be clear, we did find some sand and hair but not a major clog. This morning we have a diver checking out the discharge thru-hull again, this seems to be the last piece of the puzzle. We now have water coming into the bowl but not pumping out fast enough when in the outbound direction. Going into the holding tank seems to work much better but still not emptying completely except for what is left in the hose. We tried to have the local marina take a look and if necessary pull the boat but they are so busy we would have to wait a couple of weeks for this to happen. We will go out later today and check things out. After this what's left to do?

 

[Head Master18695]

Joanne C., it's been a couple of weeks since we last heard from you - what was the final resolution?

Vic