Critique of Mack Boring One day diesel course

[Jim Seamans]

Critique of the Mack Boring One Day Diesel CourseTaught at the Philadelphia boat show Jan 2005By James SeamansOpinions expressed are my own.The course was given from 10 to 12 a break then 2 to 5. Course materials are copies of copies of copies, somewhere around 20 generations, which at time was hard to read. Mostly diagrams of various Yanmar engines and systems. Though this course is geared towards diesels in general, Yanmar is what is discussed. Instructor is knowledgeable on all types of diesels and their operation. This course is for the individual who has NO idea what an engine is or how it works. The entire course can be done in three hours tops, the instructor wasted way to much time on history of diesels and stories and stories. Areas covered were, Basic Components, Basic Operation, Lubrication System, Fuel System, Cooling System and Electrical System. No specific information was given that cannot be found in the manual.Some tidbits given: Diesel fuel in the states is not the best; cetane levels are lower which in turn requires more fuel for the amount of power. Better cetane means better economy and more power. Instructor stated 99% of the time you will not know what the cetane value is at the marina (somewhere around 38). As for sailors we don?t use a lot of fuel just bumping around our local area. He recommended getting a couple of cans going to a truck stop (not the local gas station) and getting your fuel there; higher turnover. It will be cleaner and the cetane value will be on the pump and may be around 40-45 cetane. KEEP YOUR TANKS FULL as possible to prevent condensation in the tank. Could be right about this, I went from July to Nov and burned only 26 gals. After coming back in, top up your tank.Oil and filters, do what your manual states they have their reasons or design around it. For Yanmar, the oil has additives in it designed specifically for the marine environment and to use the CD grade or better called for in the manual. Filters, made an interesting point here. On the Yanmar, the filter is on the high pressure side of the pump and the filter is designed to take this pressure (about 120lbs/in). CHEAP insurance. Instructor would not state who makes the oil or filters for Yanmar.Engine smoking: White smoke ? water in fuel, cold engine. Blue smoke ? lube oil. Black smoke ? dirty prop or bottom, engine is working harder to push you through the water and wasting fuelMixing elbow has a life time of 5 years or less depending on how well you maintain your engine and fuel.Follow your periodical inspection and maintenance schedules. He stressed this to the point of nausea.That is IT - the whole course.One of the better pieces of advice was, find a diesel mechanic at or near your marina, bribe him with money or beer to show you how to change oil, belts, water pump, check the valves. Then start doing it yourself. (That is probably the two day course, $495)Epilogue:This course cost $125 which included four day ticket to the show. If you take it at their place it is $195. I for one cannot believe this course is worth more $50 based on what I saw and heard. A total waste of a day.Added after the fact. At this show they will give a 90 minute presentation that is basically the same information for free but will not count towards the two day course.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Guys like me see a business opportunity.

speaking as an old hot rodder who has also rebuilt his Yanmar, of course.

 

[Bob]

You're right

When I purchased my 2002 356 I decided it sure couldn't hurt to take the course (I only had gas engines before). I took the one day course at Mack Boring in NJ. The class ran from 9:00 AM until 5:00 PM. Some basic knowledge was to be had but mostly a commercial for Yanmar parts and a sales pitch to buy their pre-packaged kits - belts, filters, etc, which I actually did and the engine manual. Lots of stories, lots of sales pitch and some good information. Most of the class was returning for the second day which was all hands on experience, changing oil, priming fuel system, belts, etc. I don't think it would have been worth another $200. What I did find interesting was that people came to the class in NJ came from Marthas Vineyard, California, State of Washington, Florida and a few other far away places. Can't even imagine paying for the travel and Hotel expense and then having this class. Fortunately I only lost one vacation day and only live about 90 minutes away.So Jim, I guess I agree with you. Find a local qualified guy and spend 4 or 5 hours with him on your own boat would be money better spent.Just my opinion.Regards to all, just 3 more months till she's back in the water. Hmmmm, it was 8 degress here this morning and the docks are surrounded in ice.Bobsv Kathryn, Stamford, Ct

 

[Steve O.]

Sooo.....

Your'e saying it's a boring class? (sorry, I couldn't resist) I took a similar course from TMI (the Yanmar Diesel Direct people) and they taught me the basics when I knew almost nothing about marine diesels. There's no sub for experience. The course was free so I can't complain.

 

[Rob]

if you are looking for a good deisel class

In my humble opinon,last year I took "Dont be a deisel dork" classpresented by Chris Oliver and Lee Mairs, Written about in Spin Sheet mag. takes place in Annapolis March 5th and 6th...imairs@sagcorp.com...It was a VERY intensive class...with lots of detail of how your engine works, parts that fail and how to repair...along with diagnostics. they talk about all types of engines Yanmar Perkins Westerbeak, Catapliler, ect. My only complaint was its packed...It took place at the Marriot in Annapoilis in a small room for maybe 25 people...they should have 2 classes instaed of 1....They wheel in an engine and tons of parts and go through the whole thing. from heat exchangers, injectors, and pumps to fuel and oil problems,,Chris Oliver was fantastic as the go to guy for ALL deisel problems.I found that 2 days of 8-5 teaching was a good "introduction" to deisel problems.....Now after a few years of my own I would benifit with another class.Rob

 

[Rob]

Resonse to cost

Jim you are probably right,,,These classes are a great way to fill the depleated pockets of these deisel mechanics in the middle of winter...however I belive that the knowledge of a good class is well worth the cost....Ours was $250.00 for 2 days...but you will most likely spend the night in Annapolis so add another $250.00 for hotel, food and transportation depending where you are coming from.......Next time I take it Ill take the Admiral...and make a weekend of it in annapolis...shes not all that interested in the class subject....But SHE REMEMBERS EVERYTHING!...a good trait "sometimes"!

 

[Paul Akers]

You got what you paid for.

All due respects, but you got what you paid for - a boat show special. Anything at a boat show is designed to get you to buy more. And many of the people there will probably do that - pay $125 to pay for the remainder of the course. At least you got a nice admission price. But, IMHO, the novice can learn a lot by knowing what to watch out for. And that seems to be what was given.I took a diesel course at a diesel dealer (Westerbeke) in Marblehead, MA who installs all of the Sabre diesels in Maine. He queried the class as to what types of diesels that they owned. He then self-tailored the class to addess specifiec topic for the engine types. It was an all-day affair with hands-on after a provided-for lunch. I walked away very pleased. This was 14 years ago and learned enough, along with gathered experience over the years, to do all maintenance and have a very good feeling on trouble-shooting.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

No one has said that they learned how simple

diesels are. Compared to a gas engine, the only thing they need are oil changes and clean fuel. Has anyone here gone to sea with a gas engine? (in a displacement hull) I have. They suck.

 

[ian19147]

excellent class

I took the 3 day class in Wilmington and it was well worth the time & money. If you are just wanting to learn a little about maintenance the one day class will be ok, but I don't think you can really cover a lot in one day. Ian

 

[Marybeth and Rip]

Well worth the money for me

I attended all three days at the Mack Boring Institute in New Jersey taught by Larry Bishop. I had sailed for 18 years on a trailerable boat with a gas outboard. This class gave me lots of information about how to take care of my Yanmar and lots of confidence to do the work myself.The one day was just the baseline I needed to advance to the two day course. In the two day course, I was given a Yanmar 2GM20F to work with for the two days. I disassembled, reassembled and ran the engine six times in two days. I got so good at bleeding the injectors that I do it now as second nature. We gapped the valves, cleaned out the heat exchanger tubes, changed the impellor, changed belts and filters, and changed oil.Enjoyed it and learned a lot.

 

[Honeyman]

My take on 1 day class

I really appreciated Jim taking the time to share his experience with the 1 day "boat show" seminar. From others I have talked with, this is exactly what they cover in their 1 day class that preceeds the 2 day class at their different training facilities on the east coast. The sad part it they suppossedly WON'T let you take the 2 day class unless you have taken the 1 day. Let's face it, anyone who has been here on HOW for any length of time has pretty much figured out the same "basics" they are calling a class. We've tought eachother THAT much in the forums! I've heard good things about the 2 day and would like to take it. I just think they should trust us, as owners, to know what level of training would benefit us the most. As mentioned, anyone travelling in from out of town is looking at a major expense and to cut out one day would be helpful. Thank you Jim, good critique.

 

[Gord May]

Hire a mechanic

If you’ve got $200 worth of need for Engine (or any trade) tutorial, I suggest you get a buddy to go “halfers” and hire a good mechanic (tradesman) to give you a private session on your boat.$200 x 2 Students = $400, which should pay for a solid 6 hours of specific (to your boat) instruction & demonstration.ie:I used to do a 7.5 Hour Electrical/Plumbing Training Session, on your boat, for $400; which included about a 15-20 high quality (generic) diagrams and graphics. It worked best with 3 or less students. Often, owners would ask for a Q&A or tutorial, after I did some work on their boat, for which I charged a reduced hourly fee (usually ± $40/Hr). These cockpit & beer bull sessions were very useful.FWIW,Gord

 

[Bob Todd]

For basic Diesel info...

...why not just enroll in an adult learning course at a local voc-tech or high school. No difference between the Diesel principle and basic components whether it pertains to land based or marine.You can pick up the bits on marine environment as you go along.Just my eversohumble opinion.Cheers,Bob

 

[BBC16385]

Free Hunter Class

Our local Hunter dealer, Norton's, offers a diesel class about every year in Deltaville, free [at least I didn't pay anything]. I took it several years ago and it was outstanding. Graig Beachler, a long-time Norton's hand and manager of their boat yard services, conducts the all-day seminar and not a moment is wasted. There are seminars coming up in February, one for big boats and one for small boats. However, the seminars are for Norton's customers ONLY. See link below. I bet if you are thinking about being a Norton's customer, you might be able to get in.