Hi Dave, Thanks for your help. To answer your questions, I do have roller furling and I do try to reef early, but it still feels a bit tender compared to a keel boat. I love the boat, it is a blast to sail, easy to set up and trailer and the materials used a great, but I still wished I had a keel boat. I live and sail in Utah and on the lake I keep the boat, Bear Lake, there is almost no wind in the morning but by about two o'clock the afternoon, there comes a pretty good gust. The one problem I have, that the wind is gusty. It can be around 15 mph and all of a sudden we have experienced gusts up to 35 mph. We had the roller furling jib halfway rolled up and a reef in the main, and three big heavy guys sit on the wind side and we were blown over so much by that gust, that the rudder came out of the water, the cockpit seats went including railing went under the water and everyone on board became very uncomfortable. Close to us was a Catalina 25 with a keel and he had a full main and full jib and it didn't seem to bother him as much as us. After this happened, we took down the main and just sailed with a small jib, but again, because the wind is so gusty, we were barely moving when the wind wasn't gusting, but were more comfortable when it did gust. Again, I love the boat, but I can't wait to trade it for a larger keel boat (I am thinking about a C28 mkII, but don't tell anyone on this list). Thank you in advance for your advise.
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Ken Shubert
It's the Law (of physics)
Yup, that's the way it is Dave. It's a trade off we make in a WB. But some day you'll find a keelboat hard aground in the shallows while you sail right on by too. If you consider where the weight is actually located on a keel boat compared to our water tanks..... it's no wonder that we tip so easily. I've found the H23.5 to be self-righting, so far. It sure pumps up some adrenalin at times and really impresses the visitors. While you're dreaming, go for a 34' or longer..... much better behaved. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
Yup, that's the way it is Dave. It's a trade off we make in a WB. But some day you'll find a keelboat hard aground in the shallows while you sail right on by too. If you consider where the weight is actually located on a keel boat compared to our water tanks..... it's no wonder that we tip so easily. I've found the H23.5 to be self-righting, so far. It sure pumps up some adrenalin at times and really impresses the visitors. While you're dreaming, go for a 34' or longer..... much better behaved. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
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Russ King
Compromise, Compromise
Everything in a boat is a compromise. And when you want to trailer it, you just add more compromises. There are three ways I can think of to make a boat less tender: make it wider; make it heavier (and/or lower the center of gravity, preferably low down in the keel); or make the sail shorter/smaller. The latter is the whole point in reefing, as you know. Catamarans and trimarans get their stability by being wider. That is best for trailering, until the boat gets too wide. I think the best all-round trailerable sailboat is a trimaran with folding amas ("pontoons"). I would love to see Hunter make a trimaran similar to the Corsair F24. The big question is, can Hunter build a quality, inexpensive trimaran?
Everything in a boat is a compromise. And when you want to trailer it, you just add more compromises. There are three ways I can think of to make a boat less tender: make it wider; make it heavier (and/or lower the center of gravity, preferably low down in the keel); or make the sail shorter/smaller. The latter is the whole point in reefing, as you know. Catamarans and trimarans get their stability by being wider. That is best for trailering, until the boat gets too wide. I think the best all-round trailerable sailboat is a trimaran with folding amas ("pontoons"). I would love to see Hunter make a trimaran similar to the Corsair F24. The big question is, can Hunter build a quality, inexpensive trimaran?
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Jay Hill
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Daniel Busche
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Dave Condon
Response
Daniel; I took some time off to work at the house over New Years. You know the old "Honey Do Jar" was talking to me. that is where I have been hiding digging holes in clay. First, the Hunter 240 is designed as a trailerable boat. It will heel quicker than a keel boat initailly but my experience also tells me it will stable quicker after 4-5 degree heel than other comprable boats. The bigger the boat, the more stable for example the Catalina 25 as you have mentioned. I know this boat very well as I have sold quite a few too. However, I place these two boats in different catagories. You have described conditions of gusts upward to 30 knots which is not typical sailing conditions but at one time or another, each of us get into this condition. Generally, I tell my folks to furl the jib in first after 10 plus knots according to the wind speed and conditions. Each person has their own level how far they want the boat to go over but my expereince also tells me no more than 13-15 degree heel maxium as the boat performs better flatter. Excessive heel will scare allot of folks. At 15-17 knots, you should be on reefed main only. If you want to sail in stronger winds, consider a second reef in the main. I would also check your rudder that it is in all the way and if you do not have the lock down handle which I have mentioned in the past that goes on the bolt holding the rudder onto the rudder housing, get it. Consider too that you need to let the sheets out further as needed. Again, the maxium heel for this boat should not be greater than 15 degrees and do what ever necessary to adhere to that and you will enjoy sailing. I would like to mention that both Hunter and Catalina are fine companies makeing excellent boats. It is a matter of esthetics as I point out. I did ride out the early part of Hurricane Floyd on a Catalina 28 MKII. I learned allot about anchoring a boat in preperation of the storm. I learn from many things and am glad to pass the knowledge on to you. Happy New Year Crazy Dave Condon
Daniel; I took some time off to work at the house over New Years. You know the old "Honey Do Jar" was talking to me. that is where I have been hiding digging holes in clay. First, the Hunter 240 is designed as a trailerable boat. It will heel quicker than a keel boat initailly but my experience also tells me it will stable quicker after 4-5 degree heel than other comprable boats. The bigger the boat, the more stable for example the Catalina 25 as you have mentioned. I know this boat very well as I have sold quite a few too. However, I place these two boats in different catagories. You have described conditions of gusts upward to 30 knots which is not typical sailing conditions but at one time or another, each of us get into this condition. Generally, I tell my folks to furl the jib in first after 10 plus knots according to the wind speed and conditions. Each person has their own level how far they want the boat to go over but my expereince also tells me no more than 13-15 degree heel maxium as the boat performs better flatter. Excessive heel will scare allot of folks. At 15-17 knots, you should be on reefed main only. If you want to sail in stronger winds, consider a second reef in the main. I would also check your rudder that it is in all the way and if you do not have the lock down handle which I have mentioned in the past that goes on the bolt holding the rudder onto the rudder housing, get it. Consider too that you need to let the sheets out further as needed. Again, the maxium heel for this boat should not be greater than 15 degrees and do what ever necessary to adhere to that and you will enjoy sailing. I would like to mention that both Hunter and Catalina are fine companies makeing excellent boats. It is a matter of esthetics as I point out. I did ride out the early part of Hurricane Floyd on a Catalina 28 MKII. I learned allot about anchoring a boat in preperation of the storm. I learn from many things and am glad to pass the knowledge on to you. Happy New Year Crazy Dave Condon
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Daniel Busche
Thanks
Thanks Dave, I did not know about furling the jib before reefing the main. And I do agree, you have to reef early with the 240. To keep as much sail on the boat as we did (half furled jib and reefed main) was my crazy brother's idea, since he wanted to have some extra fun to make up for the almost windless morning. How difficult is it to install a second reef on the main? You know a lot about this boat. Where do you sell them? Do you sell just Hunters? HAPPY NEW YEAR! And happy sailing! Daniel
Thanks Dave, I did not know about furling the jib before reefing the main. And I do agree, you have to reef early with the 240. To keep as much sail on the boat as we did (half furled jib and reefed main) was my crazy brother's idea, since he wanted to have some extra fun to make up for the almost windless morning. How difficult is it to install a second reef on the main? You know a lot about this boat. Where do you sell them? Do you sell just Hunters? HAPPY NEW YEAR! And happy sailing! Daniel
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Dave Condon
Second reef
Send your sail to a sail loft and request a second reef. It does not cost much but they have the equipment and know how versus an individual trying to do it. Out of respect for this forum, I do not reveal where my dealership is located. My experiences tend to help some. Catalina and Hunter are execellent companies that I know and ? If you need further technical information, call Gregg Emerson at Hunter and he will advise. Happy sailing to you. Crazy Dave Condon
Send your sail to a sail loft and request a second reef. It does not cost much but they have the equipment and know how versus an individual trying to do it. Out of respect for this forum, I do not reveal where my dealership is located. My experiences tend to help some. Catalina and Hunter are execellent companies that I know and ? If you need further technical information, call Gregg Emerson at Hunter and he will advise. Happy sailing to you. Crazy Dave Condon
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Russell Hudson
240 tipsy
I too have the tipsy 240. I have been in winds up to 30 knots with both Full main and Jib. Though I would rather have not been in the situation, it happend (sudden increase in wind, during a race). I did get very nervous, but at no time did the boat come up more than 35 degrees. I threw in the towel, pulled the sails down and went home. I have since learned that, with more experience, the boat becomes more stable and comfortable. Don't reef too early, try to learn how to handle the winds. ie..let the jib sheets looser than normal, pinch when sailing up wind. good luck Russell s/v Summer Luvin' Rhudson72@aol.com
I too have the tipsy 240. I have been in winds up to 30 knots with both Full main and Jib. Though I would rather have not been in the situation, it happend (sudden increase in wind, during a race). I did get very nervous, but at no time did the boat come up more than 35 degrees. I threw in the towel, pulled the sails down and went home. I have since learned that, with more experience, the boat becomes more stable and comfortable. Don't reef too early, try to learn how to handle the winds. ie..let the jib sheets looser than normal, pinch when sailing up wind. good luck Russell s/v Summer Luvin' Rhudson72@aol.com
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Russell Hudson
Tipsy tip #2
One more tip. When I have new sailors on board, I show them how the boat works. Get heeled, and when they get a bit uncomfortable, let go of the tiller. Let the see the boat come around into the wind. You can do the same to show the effect of letting out the main sheet. Just don't have them out when the wind is howling! Russell s/v Summer Luvin'
One more tip. When I have new sailors on board, I show them how the boat works. Get heeled, and when they get a bit uncomfortable, let go of the tiller. Let the see the boat come around into the wind. You can do the same to show the effect of letting out the main sheet. Just don't have them out when the wind is howling! Russell s/v Summer Luvin'
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Dave Condon
Response to Russell
alot of folks say winds are light on lakes which I have often disagreed with as I know Kerr, Norman and Smith Mountain very well. I have seen winds stronger on inland lakes than the coast. Also, thank you for the tip not to scare people or take them out when the wind is howling. Good response and maybe we might meet one day and talk war stories over a bottle of ale. Maybe the car submarining in a lake is a good one to talk about. Crazy Dave Condon
alot of folks say winds are light on lakes which I have often disagreed with as I know Kerr, Norman and Smith Mountain very well. I have seen winds stronger on inland lakes than the coast. Also, thank you for the tip not to scare people or take them out when the wind is howling. Good response and maybe we might meet one day and talk war stories over a bottle of ale. Maybe the car submarining in a lake is a good one to talk about. Crazy Dave Condon
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Dave Condon
Response to Russell
alot of folks say winds are light on lakes which I have often disagreed with as I know Kerr, Norman and Smith Mountain very well. I have seen winds stronger on inland lakes than the coast. Also, thank you for the tip not to scare people or take them out when the wind is howling. Good response and maybe we might meet one day and talk war stories over a bottle of ale. Maybe the car submarining in a lake is a good one to talk about. Crazy Dave Condon
alot of folks say winds are light on lakes which I have often disagreed with as I know Kerr, Norman and Smith Mountain very well. I have seen winds stronger on inland lakes than the coast. Also, thank you for the tip not to scare people or take them out when the wind is howling. Good response and maybe we might meet one day and talk war stories over a bottle of ale. Maybe the car submarining in a lake is a good one to talk about. Crazy Dave Condon
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Mike Pajewski
Lakes have plenty of wind
I agree with Dave. Lake sailing can be just as challenging. Often, besides the wind, you must deal with steep, choppy waves that come off the bottom quick. While sailing Red Rock Lake, Iowa we saw weather conditions go from comfy to haywire in minutes. One of the other boats in our marina (a H26) had a full sunshower yanked off the lifeline. The other bennie to lake sailing is the way the wind ricochets off the banks and trees. Mike Pajewski H26 "Loon"
I agree with Dave. Lake sailing can be just as challenging. Often, besides the wind, you must deal with steep, choppy waves that come off the bottom quick. While sailing Red Rock Lake, Iowa we saw weather conditions go from comfy to haywire in minutes. One of the other boats in our marina (a H26) had a full sunshower yanked off the lifeline. The other bennie to lake sailing is the way the wind ricochets off the banks and trees. Mike Pajewski H26 "Loon"
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Mike Pajewski
Lakes have plenty of wind
I agree with Dave. Lake sailing can be just as challenging. Often, besides the wind, you must deal with steep, choppy waves that come off the bottom quick. While sailing Red Rock Lake, Iowa we saw weather conditions go from comfy to haywire in minutes. One of the other boats in our marina (a H26) had a full sunshower yanked off the lifeline. The other bennie to lake sailing is the way the wind ricochets off the banks and trees. Mike Pajewski H26 "Loon"
I agree with Dave. Lake sailing can be just as challenging. Often, besides the wind, you must deal with steep, choppy waves that come off the bottom quick. While sailing Red Rock Lake, Iowa we saw weather conditions go from comfy to haywire in minutes. One of the other boats in our marina (a H26) had a full sunshower yanked off the lifeline. The other bennie to lake sailing is the way the wind ricochets off the banks and trees. Mike Pajewski H26 "Loon"
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