WHEN I PURCHASED THIS CATALINA 28 THREE YEARS AGO MY SURVEYOR ASSURED ME THE CROSS PIECES ARENT STRUCTURAL (SEE PHOTO) THEY ONLY COMPARTMENTILIZE THE BILGES TO REDUCE SLOSHING OF ANY WATER IN THERE AND THE CRACKING IS PURELY COSMETIC. NOW, A POTENTIAL BUYER IS UNDERSTANDIBLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE CONDITION.HIS SURVEYOR APPEARANTLY ISNT SURE IF THE CROSS PIECES ARE STRUCTURAL TO THE HULL OR NOT.TWO VOICE MAILS AND AN EMAIL TO CATALINA FACTORY HAVE GONE UNANSWERED.DOES ANYBODY KNOW FOR SURE IF THIS CRACKING IS A SERIOUS ISSUE FOR CONCERN OR IS IT JUST COSMETIC.THEY HAVENT CHANGED ANY IN THREE SEASONS OF USE.
CRACKS IN THE BILGE
- Thread starter C.JUDD
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Try gettin on the catalina owners site. Some very knowledgeable people on there. Catalina doesnt have the customer service attitude that they used to have before the owner retired. I had a cat25 and now a cat30. I didnt have the x-members on either one so i cant be of any help. On my Catalina 30 , i DO know that the longitudinal stringers adjacent to the bilge and running for and aft are VERY critical. They help support the keel. Also keep trying the catalina company office by phone, eventually you may catch the engineer/naval architect in his/her office. GOOD LUCK
Try gettin on the catalina owners site. Some very knowledgeable people on there. Catalina doesnt have the customer service attitude that they used to have before the owner retired. I had a cat25 and now a cat30. I didnt have the x-members on either one so i cant be of any help. On my Catalina 30 , i DO know that the longitudinal stringers adjacent to the bilge and running for and aft are VERY critical. They help support the keel. Also keep trying the catalina company office by phone, eventually you may catch the engineer/naval architect in his/her office. GOOD LUCK
Stubby Structure
C.Judd, this is the upper keel 'stubby' that attaches to keel and hull. You can safely err on the side of safety and call these 'rib' cross pieces structural. The good news is these 'cracks' are not that bad and can be easily glassed. Pour a bit of 'git-rot' or penetrating epoxy down the cracks and tab over the ends of these cross pieces, use micro-ballon to fill if there are larger cracks not seen here. Your main structure is the bulkheads, but the blige is not sectioned, in fact limber-holes are drilled so the bilges 'communicate'and you can pump the water from one sump.
C.Judd, this is the upper keel 'stubby' that attaches to keel and hull. You can safely err on the side of safety and call these 'rib' cross pieces structural. The good news is these 'cracks' are not that bad and can be easily glassed. Pour a bit of 'git-rot' or penetrating epoxy down the cracks and tab over the ends of these cross pieces, use micro-ballon to fill if there are larger cracks not seen here. Your main structure is the bulkheads, but the blige is not sectioned, in fact limber-holes are drilled so the bilges 'communicate'and you can pump the water from one sump.
Not being an owner of one of these,
those beams sure LOOK structural. Sump water control is not needed there. That only leaves flex control. Oh, and maybe a base for the floor board/hatch. If they haven't changed since you bought the boat then they shouldn't be a problem, but how do you assure a potential buyer? I would do what Ron says if the buyer walks. Fill, paint and hide.
those beams sure LOOK structural. Sump water control is not needed there. That only leaves flex control. Oh, and maybe a base for the floor board/hatch. If they haven't changed since you bought the boat then they shouldn't be a problem, but how do you assure a potential buyer? I would do what Ron says if the buyer walks. Fill, paint and hide.
Re: cracks in bilge too!
What hull number do you have? I have 279 and my bilge "stingers"? "Ribs"? are a little bit different but have the same area cracks, I am on my third season and have been monitoring them and so far I have not seen any of them get larger or worse. I have on my list of projects to improve that area like Capt. Ron describes but haven't got to that part of my list yet. Anyways I had a boat repair tech look at them and he assured me that they weren't structural. I did notice that depending on how the boat sits in the cradel over the winter they differ some what from when the boat is in the water. actually in the water they don't look so bad. As for Catalina, when I did get a hold of them they were always very helpfull. I rarely got any response from them by email except once acknowledging they got the info they requested by email. I've talked to Kent, Gerry Douglas, and several others (sorry I dont have all their names). Keep trying they will help. Catalina seems to have their own way of doing things.
What hull number do you have? I have 279 and my bilge "stingers"? "Ribs"? are a little bit different but have the same area cracks, I am on my third season and have been monitoring them and so far I have not seen any of them get larger or worse. I have on my list of projects to improve that area like Capt. Ron describes but haven't got to that part of my list yet. Anyways I had a boat repair tech look at them and he assured me that they weren't structural. I did notice that depending on how the boat sits in the cradel over the winter they differ some what from when the boat is in the water. actually in the water they don't look so bad. As for Catalina, when I did get a hold of them they were always very helpfull. I rarely got any response from them by email except once acknowledging they got the info they requested by email. I've talked to Kent, Gerry Douglas, and several others (sorry I dont have all their names). Keep trying they will help. Catalina seems to have their own way of doing things.
C Judd,go to the source....
Take a minute and call Catalina about your concern. They are in business because they have after market responce. About 6 years ago I was looking at a Catalina witha few problems( don't all boats have them). Their staff gave me good insight and great advice. I would repeat the advice they gave me but I think it would be abused here. They were honest and informative. Give them a call, ofer the pictures and ask for their input. r.w.landau
Take a minute and call Catalina about your concern. They are in business because they have after market responce. About 6 years ago I was looking at a Catalina witha few problems( don't all boats have them). Their staff gave me good insight and great advice. I would repeat the advice they gave me but I think it would be abused here. They were honest and informative. Give them a call, ofer the pictures and ask for their input. r.w.landau
What difference does it make?
Fix the cracks. If it is cosmetic, you will feel better; if it is structural, you will feel better and be safer. It appears to be part of the keel and not a divider for slop control. A 1/4" piece of plywood would control the water as well as that 2" member that Catalina put in the bilge (apparently for a good reason). Fix it and you will sleep better. Jim
Fix the cracks. If it is cosmetic, you will feel better; if it is structural, you will feel better and be safer. It appears to be part of the keel and not a divider for slop control. A 1/4" piece of plywood would control the water as well as that 2" member that Catalina put in the bilge (apparently for a good reason). Fix it and you will sleep better. Jim
Jentine, That is my point...
Catalina will tell C Judd what those members do, if they are structural or cosmetic, and also recommend how to repair them. That would make me sleep better! r.w.landau
Catalina will tell C Judd what those members do, if they are structural or cosmetic, and also recommend how to repair them. That would make me sleep better! r.w.landau
Stringer on the C28 look very different than C310
Looking at the picture, it appears that the C310 has true stringers that run across the beam of the boat and up the bottom side of the hull. The C28 stringers look like they are just in te keel sump area. Structurally it appears that the C310 stringers are much more functional in keeping the stiffness of the hull. The C28 is just in the sump and I really doubt there is much structural stiffness added to that small area. As suggested earlier, I would grind out some of the cracks and area around it, then epoxy in a little wetted out fiberglass mat and then fair it out. It'll be better than new and if you've never used epoxy its very easy to use. Just buy the West System and the pumps and everything is measured out for you. ps sailortonyb the owner Frank Bulter did not retire. Not sure where you heard that? He's out and about all over the place. But the company is managed by three people now (it has been for quite some time now). Frank, founder, Gerry Douglas, chief architect and Sharon Day, Marketing, etc
Looking at the picture, it appears that the C310 has true stringers that run across the beam of the boat and up the bottom side of the hull. The C28 stringers look like they are just in te keel sump area. Structurally it appears that the C310 stringers are much more functional in keeping the stiffness of the hull. The C28 is just in the sump and I really doubt there is much structural stiffness added to that small area. As suggested earlier, I would grind out some of the cracks and area around it, then epoxy in a little wetted out fiberglass mat and then fair it out. It'll be better than new and if you've never used epoxy its very easy to use. Just buy the West System and the pumps and everything is measured out for you. ps sailortonyb the owner Frank Bulter did not retire. Not sure where you heard that? He's out and about all over the place. But the company is managed by three people now (it has been for quite some time now). Frank, founder, Gerry Douglas, chief architect and Sharon Day, Marketing, etc
No, they are not the same.
I said similar. The C310 “stringers” do “not” extend to the sides of the boat, but it seems obvious to me that they are structural. The fact that the C28 “stringers” are not as extensive does not mean they are not structural. Just less structural. If they are not meant to be structural then why did they crack? Seems they might have been under some forces, and failed. And if not structural, I’m curious to know what other purpose they do serve? I’d also like to know what the factory says, if anyone finds out.
I said similar. The C310 “stringers” do “not” extend to the sides of the boat, but it seems obvious to me that they are structural. The fact that the C28 “stringers” are not as extensive does not mean they are not structural. Just less structural. If they are not meant to be structural then why did they crack? Seems they might have been under some forces, and failed. And if not structural, I’m curious to know what other purpose they do serve? I’d also like to know what the factory says, if anyone finds out.
Mine has the same cracks
I own hull number 6. So when it comes to oldes Cat 28s I'm right up there. I have the same cracks. I've looked into them and my surveyor said that they shouldn't be a problem. I've been watching them since I bought the boat and they don't see to be getting bigger. I did pick at mine a bit and they don't seem to go any deeper then about 1/16 of an inch on my boat. Jason
I own hull number 6. So when it comes to oldes Cat 28s I'm right up there. I have the same cracks. I've looked into them and my surveyor said that they shouldn't be a problem. I've been watching them since I bought the boat and they don't see to be getting bigger. I did pick at mine a bit and they don't seem to go any deeper then about 1/16 of an inch on my boat. Jason
Hingeing
CJ, I suggest you try to understand how the cracks came to be there. It looks as if the keel is Hingeing when the boat heels. The hull is largely a sector of a circle, except in way of the keel stub. So when the hull heels over the keel still wants to hang vertically and the forces pull the stub open. Perhaps the reason the cracks have not worsened is that they have extended sufficiently to allow all necessary movement - until one day you get laid flat! You will probably also see hairline cracks horizontally in the outside of the anti fouling paint or gel coat along the line of the canoe body to keel stub. Hunters do it too and Hunters have a standard modification procedure. I say fix it and make very sure the fix is strong.
CJ, I suggest you try to understand how the cracks came to be there. It looks as if the keel is Hingeing when the boat heels. The hull is largely a sector of a circle, except in way of the keel stub. So when the hull heels over the keel still wants to hang vertically and the forces pull the stub open. Perhaps the reason the cracks have not worsened is that they have extended sufficiently to allow all necessary movement - until one day you get laid flat! You will probably also see hairline cracks horizontally in the outside of the anti fouling paint or gel coat along the line of the canoe body to keel stub. Hunters do it too and Hunters have a standard modification procedure. I say fix it and make very sure the fix is strong.
But of course
they are structure. Water is getting befind the cracks and into the core material. If it gets cold where you are at ice could create a problem. You should have sealed them right away. Live and learn. Knock off 1000 bucks for the repair!
they are structure. Water is getting befind the cracks and into the core material. If it gets cold where you are at ice could create a problem. You should have sealed them right away. Live and learn. Knock off 1000 bucks for the repair!
I agree...
As Jon W., Waffle, & Donalex said, the cracks are likely structural, fairly serious, and require urgent repair (not mere 'sealing'), with reference to the cause.
As Jon W., Waffle, & Donalex said, the cracks are likely structural, fairly serious, and require urgent repair (not mere 'sealing'), with reference to the cause.
Nasty Looking
Very nasty looking but Catalina stoped useing wood in the keel stub in 1988 mid year so if there is no wood you should be ok .If there is no craking around the keel (that is good)If there is a keel crack line.( That is not bad)But i would drill some holes around the bolts and see if there is water 1/4" x 1/2 deep If dry, fill them with epoxy then drill the deviders and see if there is water inside, if dry grind the cracks and reglass. If wet I would just caulk the cracks. Ive seen catalinas with and with out the deviders and they seem strong ether way the problem is usually in the bottom around the keel stub.I have a C30 1988 that misted the wood keel stub cut off by 15 boats.So ive replaced the stub and mast block and I seem to be my clubs expert on soggy bilges and every one invites me a aboard for beer food, and a look in the bilge. John
Very nasty looking but Catalina stoped useing wood in the keel stub in 1988 mid year so if there is no wood you should be ok .If there is no craking around the keel (that is good)If there is a keel crack line.( That is not bad)But i would drill some holes around the bolts and see if there is water 1/4" x 1/2 deep If dry, fill them with epoxy then drill the deviders and see if there is water inside, if dry grind the cracks and reglass. If wet I would just caulk the cracks. Ive seen catalinas with and with out the deviders and they seem strong ether way the problem is usually in the bottom around the keel stub.I have a C30 1988 that misted the wood keel stub cut off by 15 boats.So ive replaced the stub and mast block and I seem to be my clubs expert on soggy bilges and every one invites me a aboard for beer food, and a look in the bilge. John
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