Someone told me that bits are available for drills which fit in standard winch handle fittings. Anyone know where to get these. Also, anyone have real experience using a cordless drill in a winch. Do they have enough torque? I have a terrible time with my main halyard and if this works I wouldn't mind spending the $300-400 for a good drill to use with the winch.
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But . . . .
You shouldn't have that much trouble with the main. I raise the 340 main to within 2 feet of the top by hand. Friend has a 336 and can do the same, and both of us are over the hill, way over. So, some thoughts: check the sheeve at the top of the mast and lubricate, check the blocks at the bottom of the mast. Check the alignment of the mast. Check and see if the battens are causing the sail slide to bind as it is raised and consider replacing only these with pockets that hinge to avoid the problem. Check the blocks at the base of the mast, including the turning block. Check the main halyard to insure that it is the appropriate size. Consider replacing the sail slides. Check and see if the battens are causing the sail slide to bind as it is raised and consider replacing only these with pockets that hinge to avoid the problem. Hope this helps even though I didn't answer your question. Jim
You shouldn't have that much trouble with the main. I raise the 340 main to within 2 feet of the top by hand. Friend has a 336 and can do the same, and both of us are over the hill, way over. So, some thoughts: check the sheeve at the top of the mast and lubricate, check the blocks at the bottom of the mast. Check the alignment of the mast. Check and see if the battens are causing the sail slide to bind as it is raised and consider replacing only these with pockets that hinge to avoid the problem. Check the blocks at the base of the mast, including the turning block. Check the main halyard to insure that it is the appropriate size. Consider replacing the sail slides. Check and see if the battens are causing the sail slide to bind as it is raised and consider replacing only these with pockets that hinge to avoid the problem. Hope this helps even though I didn't answer your question. Jim
Not enough torque!
If you are planning to use this system for sheeting your genoa in, you will find you need about ten or twenty times the torque a cordless drill will give you. Just remember a cordless drill is intended to be held in one hand close to the the axis of the drill bit, compare this to putting all of your weight onto a winch handle which is 10" long.
If you are planning to use this system for sheeting your genoa in, you will find you need about ten or twenty times the torque a cordless drill will give you. Just remember a cordless drill is intended to be held in one hand close to the the axis of the drill bit, compare this to putting all of your weight onto a winch handle which is 10" long.
Thanks for info...
Thanks for the replies. I will check the items to free up the potential binding. The boat is new to me, however in reading past articles in these forums I got the feeling that raising the main was a very common problem on these boats. As far as the drill... I looked last night in the store at what are called right angle drills. They look very much like the electric winch handle that is in West Marine catalog, however they are $400 not $2400. The handle sticks out about 12 inches from the axis of the bit. They advertise 500 in pounds of torque... have no idea if this is enough. As far as sheeting... I only need help with the main. Grinding the sheets in is not a problem vs. the halyard. Don
Thanks for the replies. I will check the items to free up the potential binding. The boat is new to me, however in reading past articles in these forums I got the feeling that raising the main was a very common problem on these boats. As far as the drill... I looked last night in the store at what are called right angle drills. They look very much like the electric winch handle that is in West Marine catalog, however they are $400 not $2400. The handle sticks out about 12 inches from the axis of the bit. They advertise 500 in pounds of torque... have no idea if this is enough. As far as sheeting... I only need help with the main. Grinding the sheets in is not a problem vs. the halyard. Don
Pull it up
There is little chance a cordless drill attached to the winch will be able to raise the main. I figure you would need 700 in-lbs min. Im basing this on 40 lbs of pull on a 18 inch handle. If you are really interested you may want to check with Lewmar and see what they offer in terms of powered winches. I find the best way to raise the main on my 336 is to stand at the mast and pull the main halyard by hand. My 13 year old daughter then pulls the halyard slack through the clutch. I can raise the main all the way with little problem.
There is little chance a cordless drill attached to the winch will be able to raise the main. I figure you would need 700 in-lbs min. Im basing this on 40 lbs of pull on a 18 inch handle. If you are really interested you may want to check with Lewmar and see what they offer in terms of powered winches. I find the best way to raise the main on my 336 is to stand at the mast and pull the main halyard by hand. My 13 year old daughter then pulls the halyard slack through the clutch. I can raise the main all the way with little problem.
Slick Solution
Don, Before you try the expensive solutions you might just squirt some Joy (any liquid detergent will do) into the track as someone wenches the sail up. Keep applying as the slides/slugs work their way up. You should get about 2 oz into the track. Works like a charm. I can manually pull my 37.5 full batten sail up with no effort. Literally no effort. The soap lasts for about 2 months until you need to do it again. It doesn't stain the sails or boat and there is no cost. Give it a try. Les sv Mutual Fun
Don, Before you try the expensive solutions you might just squirt some Joy (any liquid detergent will do) into the track as someone wenches the sail up. Keep applying as the slides/slugs work their way up. You should get about 2 oz into the track. Works like a charm. I can manually pull my 37.5 full batten sail up with no effort. Literally no effort. The soap lasts for about 2 months until you need to do it again. It doesn't stain the sails or boat and there is no cost. Give it a try. Les sv Mutual Fun
Give Joy a chance
I'll try out your joy trick next weekend. I tried most of the previous suggestions out and not much difference. I didn't try hinged slide pockets because I don't know what they are. Could help though if the full battens are the problem. The main hoisting is the only thing that I am disappointed in with the 336 but unfortuately it is VERY disappointing. My wife and son are throwing in the towel in frustration. I myself can not take the effort required. It is downright dangerous to the back grinding the winch so much. Hope Joy helps. Don
I'll try out your joy trick next weekend. I tried most of the previous suggestions out and not much difference. I didn't try hinged slide pockets because I don't know what they are. Could help though if the full battens are the problem. The main hoisting is the only thing that I am disappointed in with the 336 but unfortuately it is VERY disappointing. My wife and son are throwing in the towel in frustration. I myself can not take the effort required. It is downright dangerous to the back grinding the winch so much. Hope Joy helps. Don
Main Sheet tension
Don't want to insult anyone but have you tried releasing tension on the main sheet line? Chris Festina Tarde Hunter 340
Don't want to insult anyone but have you tried releasing tension on the main sheet line? Chris Festina Tarde Hunter 340
Tangle free
On our 340 the main halyard and reefing lines were twisted around each other under the deck. After unwraping them it went up much easier. We also raise our sail by jumping the halyard at the mast while someone pulls the tail through the stopper Andy Hansom Vanishing point
On our 340 the main halyard and reefing lines were twisted around each other under the deck. After unwraping them it went up much easier. We also raise our sail by jumping the halyard at the mast while someone pulls the tail through the stopper Andy Hansom Vanishing point
Another Solution?
I have never seen your model but after looking at the pictures, you may try what I do on my boat when I want a little extra umph! If your halyard sheet is long enough, you may be able to lead it back to the primary winch which is probably a larger, self tailing, two speed winch. Just a thought.
I have never seen your model but after looking at the pictures, you may try what I do on my boat when I want a little extra umph! If your halyard sheet is long enough, you may be able to lead it back to the primary winch which is probably a larger, self tailing, two speed winch. Just a thought.
The topping lift....... DUMMY!?????
A light went on last night when I looked at a picture of my boat. Could it be that the topping lift is too loose (boom too low) so I am taking all the boom weight and it is cocking the sail slides while trying to crank the halyard??? Can't wait to check this out. What does everyone else do in setting the boom height with the topping lift?
A light went on last night when I looked at a picture of my boat. Could it be that the topping lift is too loose (boom too low) so I am taking all the boom weight and it is cocking the sail slides while trying to crank the halyard??? Can't wait to check this out. What does everyone else do in setting the boom height with the topping lift?
Topping Lift? I think not the problerm
I release my topping lift BEFORE hoisting my sail. The battens get caught on the topping lift going up.
I release my topping lift BEFORE hoisting my sail. The battens get caught on the topping lift going up.
Topping lift adjustment.
Adjust topping lift so boom is level when sail furled. Should never need adjustment again. Mine has been the same for 16 years.
Adjust topping lift so boom is level when sail furled. Should never need adjustment again. Mine has been the same for 16 years.
Things to check
Don, To help localize the problem try holding the sail end of the halyard in one hand and try to pull it up with your other hand at the mast, before the spray shield and before the jam cleats. Work it back and forth to find the friction points. Sheaves that need to be cleaned can really cause friction especially under the shield. If there is an internal problem it should quickly become apparant. Just be sure you don't lose the end of your halyard. Its a long climb up, or an expensive climb. Also if you pull your reefing lines back through the cleats after dropping the main when you put the boat away you will be also be pulling these lines as you raise your sail. These can cause even more friction. There are more sheaves internal to the reefing system inside the boom than inside the mast and under the shield. I have my reefing lines set loosely at their extended position and have a knot tied to keep them from being pulled through. The loose lines can be gathered and secured with a tie instead of pulling the slack through when the sailing is done. Also if you have used the reefing lines try pre pulling the slack out at the mast and boom end to make it easier to raise the sail. Lastly, someone mentioned the sheet and also the vang. These certainly can be a problem but only for the last few feet. I keep these minimally secure until I get the sail up to keep the boom from flogging while raising the sail. If the reefing lines are loose you don't want the boom swinging and dragging loops of line through the cockpit during the raising process. Then release the stops and raise the last increment with the wench. Hope some of this helps. Sailing is no fun if you wear yourself at the beginning of each venture. But raising the sail should not be that hard. Good luck and let us know what worked. Les
Don, To help localize the problem try holding the sail end of the halyard in one hand and try to pull it up with your other hand at the mast, before the spray shield and before the jam cleats. Work it back and forth to find the friction points. Sheaves that need to be cleaned can really cause friction especially under the shield. If there is an internal problem it should quickly become apparant. Just be sure you don't lose the end of your halyard. Its a long climb up, or an expensive climb. Also if you pull your reefing lines back through the cleats after dropping the main when you put the boat away you will be also be pulling these lines as you raise your sail. These can cause even more friction. There are more sheaves internal to the reefing system inside the boom than inside the mast and under the shield. I have my reefing lines set loosely at their extended position and have a knot tied to keep them from being pulled through. The loose lines can be gathered and secured with a tie instead of pulling the slack through when the sailing is done. Also if you have used the reefing lines try pre pulling the slack out at the mast and boom end to make it easier to raise the sail. Lastly, someone mentioned the sheet and also the vang. These certainly can be a problem but only for the last few feet. I keep these minimally secure until I get the sail up to keep the boom from flogging while raising the sail. If the reefing lines are loose you don't want the boom swinging and dragging loops of line through the cockpit during the raising process. Then release the stops and raise the last increment with the wench. Hope some of this helps. Sailing is no fun if you wear yourself at the beginning of each venture. But raising the sail should not be that hard. Good luck and let us know what worked. Les
Give the Strong Track System a try
I had the same problem on my 29.5. The full battens would cause the slugs to jam in the track. The Strong Track system is an external nylon/plastic track which fits in the sailtrack. special sail fittings fit into this track. After installing it, I had no more problems.
I had the same problem on my 29.5. The full battens would cause the slugs to jam in the track. The Strong Track system is an external nylon/plastic track which fits in the sailtrack. special sail fittings fit into this track. After installing it, I had no more problems.
BOB: Wahat does the Strong track Cost?
Bob: I remember something about the strong track system in an earlier thread. As I recall, the cost is on the order of a grand. Sound right? Then it is reasonably easy to install if I wish to do it myself? Did you order it? Where? Rodney
Bob: I remember something about the strong track system in an earlier thread. As I recall, the cost is on the order of a grand. Sound right? Then it is reasonably easy to install if I wish to do it myself? Did you order it? Where? Rodney
Strong Track System Cost
You're right on for the cost. I had my rigger install it, but having seen him do it, I'd easily tackle it myself. The track just fits inside the current sailtrack. Measurement is relatively simple with a halyard. Tidewater Marine in FL makes the Strong Track System. I believe they have a website. You have to tell them which mast you have because they make different tracks for different masts to fit in the sailslides. I believe the cost is about $20-25 a foot, including the sail fittings. This is for the sailtrack only, not the rest of the mast. Popular Sailor rated it just below the Harken and Antal systems which are really pricy.
You're right on for the cost. I had my rigger install it, but having seen him do it, I'd easily tackle it myself. The track just fits inside the current sailtrack. Measurement is relatively simple with a halyard. Tidewater Marine in FL makes the Strong Track System. I believe they have a website. You have to tell them which mast you have because they make different tracks for different masts to fit in the sailslides. I believe the cost is about $20-25 a foot, including the sail fittings. This is for the sailtrack only, not the rest of the mast. Popular Sailor rated it just below the Harken and Antal systems which are really pricy.
Dutchman System
I tried a number of the simpler suggestions this weekend. Not much change. I lubricated the slides, checked that the sheet was loosened, pulled the reefing lines through (was doing this anyway, its a must), lubricated the blocks at the mast base, checked for crossed lines under the deck cover, and lifted the topping lift to level out the boom, and lastly, just before a thunder storm I started to investigate the dutchman system. I see that the dutchman lines are not aligned straight up to the line holder on the topping lift. I shifted one and reattached. I don't know what affect is since the storm came. Anyone have thoughts on the dutchman system???
I tried a number of the simpler suggestions this weekend. Not much change. I lubricated the slides, checked that the sheet was loosened, pulled the reefing lines through (was doing this anyway, its a must), lubricated the blocks at the mast base, checked for crossed lines under the deck cover, and lifted the topping lift to level out the boom, and lastly, just before a thunder storm I started to investigate the dutchman system. I see that the dutchman lines are not aligned straight up to the line holder on the topping lift. I shifted one and reattached. I don't know what affect is since the storm came. Anyone have thoughts on the dutchman system???
I have a Dutchman System
I like my Dutchman, but as I said earlier, I release my topping lift BEFORE I start to hoist my main as the Dutchman, the topping lift, and the battens do not mix well when hoisting. Indeed, the battens often get caught between the dutchman and the topping lift on the wrong side of the wind if I keep the topping lift tight. Yes, I do allow the boom to be pulled back up by the main, adding to the the weight I am lifting with the halyard. Unfortunately, my main is a task to deal with also. I use the winch for 80% of the lift. Not too difficult, just more than I can do by hand. I am looking at trying some of the things mentioned here to improve my productivity.
I like my Dutchman, but as I said earlier, I release my topping lift BEFORE I start to hoist my main as the Dutchman, the topping lift, and the battens do not mix well when hoisting. Indeed, the battens often get caught between the dutchman and the topping lift on the wrong side of the wind if I keep the topping lift tight. Yes, I do allow the boom to be pulled back up by the main, adding to the the weight I am lifting with the halyard. Unfortunately, my main is a task to deal with also. I use the winch for 80% of the lift. Not too difficult, just more than I can do by hand. I am looking at trying some of the things mentioned here to improve my productivity.
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