Has anyone had experience converting a two-burner pressurized alcohol stove to propane (portable bottle)? If so, can you direct me to a parts supplier? Thanks...
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Can you say - "BOOM"?
For the small cost involved - go out and buy a propane stove. It is far too dangerous to start trying to convert from alcohol to propane. You also realize that if you did tinker with the stove, and didn't have either gas approval labels in place to verify proper installation or a receipt from a licenced gas fitter, your insurance company would tell you to get lost should you ever have an incident on board. Not worth the risk.
For the small cost involved - go out and buy a propane stove. It is far too dangerous to start trying to convert from alcohol to propane. You also realize that if you did tinker with the stove, and didn't have either gas approval labels in place to verify proper installation or a receipt from a licenced gas fitter, your insurance company would tell you to get lost should you ever have an incident on board. Not worth the risk.
it is done
Tauton stove co., does stove conversions. The problem is air. The propane units require more air and ventalaton arround the burners. Most companies wont sell you parts to convert, It makes little sense to me. I know several guys who have used stove burners ect. but im now convienced its not save. Taunton will convert the stove and make new pans and controlls and do it right. They are on the internet. Another problem is parts for many alchol stoves are getting hard to come by. I have a seward hillerange and they no longer make parts for them.
Tauton stove co., does stove conversions. The problem is air. The propane units require more air and ventalaton arround the burners. Most companies wont sell you parts to convert, It makes little sense to me. I know several guys who have used stove burners ect. but im now convienced its not save. Taunton will convert the stove and make new pans and controlls and do it right. They are on the internet. Another problem is parts for many alchol stoves are getting hard to come by. I have a seward hillerange and they no longer make parts for them.
Curtain Burner To Propane
Hi Jim, Yes, it can be done and it doesn't cost that much either. I purchased my O'Day 26 3 1/2 years ago, and it came with the original Seaward Pressurized Srove. I removed it from the boat and really tried to learn how to use it, but the smallest flame I ever got from lighting it was about 3 feet high, to much for me. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a $40 Coleman two burner camp stove. I them took the Seaward stove out and removed the guts from it. With a little filing for an exact fit, all the parts fit perfectly into the Stainless Steel Seaward box. The only hole left over was the missing pressurizer knob. I keep the small propane bottles outside in the fuel locker until needed so there is no chance of leaking, and it has operated perfectly for over 3 years. Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Latte Dah" O'Day 26
Hi Jim, Yes, it can be done and it doesn't cost that much either. I purchased my O'Day 26 3 1/2 years ago, and it came with the original Seaward Pressurized Srove. I removed it from the boat and really tried to learn how to use it, but the smallest flame I ever got from lighting it was about 3 feet high, to much for me. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a $40 Coleman two burner camp stove. I them took the Seaward stove out and removed the guts from it. With a little filing for an exact fit, all the parts fit perfectly into the Stainless Steel Seaward box. The only hole left over was the missing pressurizer knob. I keep the small propane bottles outside in the fuel locker until needed so there is no chance of leaking, and it has operated perfectly for over 3 years. Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Latte Dah" O'Day 26
Did you print your own approval labels?
Didn't say it couldn't be done - but if you want to keep within the gas codes and regulations make sure it is done by a licenced gas fitter, and that the proper approval labels are affixed. I don't think your conversion meets the gas codes, but I really hope they do for your own safety. Your insurance is null and void if you don't have the approvals in place. I also was advised by a marine insurance company that you must have a safety shut off gas solenoid valve correctly installed, or again - they wave goodbye to you in the event of a fire.
Didn't say it couldn't be done - but if you want to keep within the gas codes and regulations make sure it is done by a licenced gas fitter, and that the proper approval labels are affixed. I don't think your conversion meets the gas codes, but I really hope they do for your own safety. Your insurance is null and void if you don't have the approvals in place. I also was advised by a marine insurance company that you must have a safety shut off gas solenoid valve correctly installed, or again - they wave goodbye to you in the event of a fire.
Jim has it right
Don't know if you carry comprehensive insurance on your boat, but if that stove sets it on fire your agent is gonna be laughing. Seriously, it's just not worth it to try and save a few bucks by building your own propane stove. But if you decide to proceed anyway, here are my suggestions for the initial testing phase: 1. position your boat at least 300 yards from any other boats, docks or people 2. have at least 3 fire extinguishers (preferably Halon) at the ready 3. dress in a full 'turn-out' coat and pants as used by the fire department(plus helmet, face shield and gloves) 4. have the life raft inflated and ready to go 5. make sure your medical insurance is fully paid 6. tell your wife and kids that you love them That should about cover it. Best of luck!
Don't know if you carry comprehensive insurance on your boat, but if that stove sets it on fire your agent is gonna be laughing. Seriously, it's just not worth it to try and save a few bucks by building your own propane stove. But if you decide to proceed anyway, here are my suggestions for the initial testing phase: 1. position your boat at least 300 yards from any other boats, docks or people 2. have at least 3 fire extinguishers (preferably Halon) at the ready 3. dress in a full 'turn-out' coat and pants as used by the fire department(plus helmet, face shield and gloves) 4. have the life raft inflated and ready to go 5. make sure your medical insurance is fully paid 6. tell your wife and kids that you love them That should about cover it. Best of luck!
Funny tread
Jeff, that was cute.
OK, if nobody is going to say it, I will. Jim is MUCH better off with propane than with alcohol. Some common sense is in order, of course, but he is talking about disposable canisters. A vented locker is not on the list and neither is a solenoid shut off. I don't know where you guys come from but Jim is talking about a boat not a house. All those lawyer labels are just that. And propane is low pressure for Gods sake. You guys make it sound like he could go NUCLEAR! Jim, does your nose work? Yes? Go for it. Oh, and Jeff, I agree with you about it not being worth it to convert.
Jeff, that was cute.
OK, if nobody is going to say it, I will. Jim is MUCH better off with propane than with alcohol. Some common sense is in order, of course, but he is talking about disposable canisters. A vented locker is not on the list and neither is a solenoid shut off. I don't know where you guys come from but Jim is talking about a boat not a house. All those lawyer labels are just that. And propane is low pressure for Gods sake. You guys make it sound like he could go NUCLEAR! Jim, does your nose work? Yes? Go for it. Oh, and Jeff, I agree with you about it not being worth it to convert.Here is an old draft I wrote on this subject
Ready? Here comes the paste,,, This attidude about propane is a product of our cultures obsession with safety, propagated by law suite paranoia. Common sense should be the rule, not 'paragraph such and such' followed by 'sub rule whosenfetch'! If a person doesn't know how to do a job, like installing propane, then hire someone who does. Propane has agreat safety record for a REASON(S). 1. It smells bad when leaking and not lit. 2. It is easy and compact to store. 3. It is relatively low pressure. A pressure gauge on a propane tank will only show a pressure drop during leak testing. A pressure gauge is useless for determining how much fuel is left in the tank. Propane is a condensable gas. Put it under pressure and it liquefies. The pressure that this happens at is about <100psi. All of those new tank valves that are required to keep our tanks from being overfilled are BS. When is the last time a propane tank blew up from being overfilled? The pressure in a propane tank is the same whether filled to capacity or containing an eye dropper of liquid. Those overfill protection valves are required because a group of Bureaucrats needed (wanted) to do something to justify their existence and to feel like big shots so they came up with this 'new safety device'. They write the fire codes. My Fire Chief friend says 'that is what happens when you give too much power to too few people'. Just look at the ABYC standards for the rest of your boat too. Remember when people used to build their own boat and go off into the sunset. Most sailors are too scared to do so now. Who created and backs the ABYC. I know that their standards are FOR SALE! Are they like UL? UL was and is a lab that is funded by the insurance industry to MINIMIZE their losses. Our safety is a public relations banter. Another example of this fear of, shall I call it, living life(?), is driving on our highways. Leave North America and see how the rest of the world does it. Here we have a paint strip to guide our every move. The result is that drivers never use there cars' accident evasion capability. We drive `by the numbers'. No one dares to have fun on the roads except hot rodders. (I'm one). When a hazard is in front of most drivers path, they react by hitting the brakes, not turning out of their lane. That is why antilock brakes didn't reduce our accident rate. Your also suppose to turn the WHEEL when you slam on the brakes! WHEW. I digress. I have been boarded by the Coast Guard several times. A few years ago they would actually look at your safety stuff instead of just searching for drugs. All of the boarding personnel look at my `non ABYC compliant' locker and say it is fine as long as it is vented overboard. They don't care about `loops' and `dips' or the location of your door/lid. A while back I got in a `discussion' about propane at HOW and things got out of hand. Peggie and I didn't see eye to eye, but that's life. I went on about towing a burning Yacht out of Marina de LaPaz and what happened when the propane tank exploded. (not much) That fire, as most are, was caused by poor wiring, not propane. Any how, I just thought I'd fire up this site. It's been too quite this summer. End of paste. OK lets hear it.
Ready? Here comes the paste,,, This attidude about propane is a product of our cultures obsession with safety, propagated by law suite paranoia. Common sense should be the rule, not 'paragraph such and such' followed by 'sub rule whosenfetch'! If a person doesn't know how to do a job, like installing propane, then hire someone who does. Propane has agreat safety record for a REASON(S). 1. It smells bad when leaking and not lit. 2. It is easy and compact to store. 3. It is relatively low pressure. A pressure gauge on a propane tank will only show a pressure drop during leak testing. A pressure gauge is useless for determining how much fuel is left in the tank. Propane is a condensable gas. Put it under pressure and it liquefies. The pressure that this happens at is about <100psi. All of those new tank valves that are required to keep our tanks from being overfilled are BS. When is the last time a propane tank blew up from being overfilled? The pressure in a propane tank is the same whether filled to capacity or containing an eye dropper of liquid. Those overfill protection valves are required because a group of Bureaucrats needed (wanted) to do something to justify their existence and to feel like big shots so they came up with this 'new safety device'. They write the fire codes. My Fire Chief friend says 'that is what happens when you give too much power to too few people'. Just look at the ABYC standards for the rest of your boat too. Remember when people used to build their own boat and go off into the sunset. Most sailors are too scared to do so now. Who created and backs the ABYC. I know that their standards are FOR SALE! Are they like UL? UL was and is a lab that is funded by the insurance industry to MINIMIZE their losses. Our safety is a public relations banter. Another example of this fear of, shall I call it, living life(?), is driving on our highways. Leave North America and see how the rest of the world does it. Here we have a paint strip to guide our every move. The result is that drivers never use there cars' accident evasion capability. We drive `by the numbers'. No one dares to have fun on the roads except hot rodders. (I'm one). When a hazard is in front of most drivers path, they react by hitting the brakes, not turning out of their lane. That is why antilock brakes didn't reduce our accident rate. Your also suppose to turn the WHEEL when you slam on the brakes! WHEW. I digress. I have been boarded by the Coast Guard several times. A few years ago they would actually look at your safety stuff instead of just searching for drugs. All of the boarding personnel look at my `non ABYC compliant' locker and say it is fine as long as it is vented overboard. They don't care about `loops' and `dips' or the location of your door/lid. A while back I got in a `discussion' about propane at HOW and things got out of hand. Peggie and I didn't see eye to eye, but that's life. I went on about towing a burning Yacht out of Marina de LaPaz and what happened when the propane tank exploded. (not much) That fire, as most are, was caused by poor wiring, not propane. Any how, I just thought I'd fire up this site. It's been too quite this summer. End of paste.
OK lets hear it.Imposing Rules & Safety
Fred F. says: ..."If a person doesn't know how to do a job, like installing propane, then hire someone who does..." This seems to me, to be the most useful of your comments, Fred. [no offense intended] Although a certain "rugged individidualism" is a laudable characteristic, I don't think it should be the principal inspiration in designing and installing propane equipment. I too, long for the days when a "kid who's not bruised or bleeding, just isnt having enough fun"; but I still insist that my granson wear his riding helmut, etc. Yes, we sometimes go to laughable extremes, in trying to make our world a safer space - but it is becoming a safer place, thanks to many of these "rule such and such" impositions. Just another honest opinion. Gord
Fred F. says: ..."If a person doesn't know how to do a job, like installing propane, then hire someone who does..." This seems to me, to be the most useful of your comments, Fred.
[no offense intended] Although a certain "rugged individidualism" is a laudable characteristic, I don't think it should be the principal inspiration in designing and installing propane equipment. I too, long for the days when a "kid who's not bruised or bleeding, just isnt having enough fun"; but I still insist that my granson wear his riding helmut, etc. Yes, we sometimes go to laughable extremes, in trying to make our world a safer space - but it is becoming a safer place, thanks to many of these "rule such and such" impositions. Just another honest opinion. GordA Reply
Further to Fred Ficarra on Propane & Rules: In reply to: Fred Ficarra of Seabeck WA on 11/10 at 10:28AM regarding Propane <...”This attitude about propane is a product of our cultures obsession with safety, propagated by law suite paranoia. Common sense should be the rule, not 'paragraph such and such' followed by 'sub rule whosenfetch'! If a person doesn't know how to do a job, like installing propane, then hire someone who does.”...> Were common sense all that was required to perform adequate (technical) installations, there would be absolutely no need for Engineers, Tradesmen, and such. Well maybe there would, since “Common Sense” doesn’t appear to be all that common - witness the quoted posting. <...”All of those new tank valves that are required to keep our tanks from being overfilled are BS. When is the last time a propane tank blew up from being overfilled? The pressure in a propane tank is the same whether filled to capacity or containing an eye dropper of liquid. Those overfill protection valves are required because a group of Bureaucrats needed (wanted) to do something to justify their existence and to feel like big shots so they came up with this 'new safety device'.”...> Not true - pressure varies with volume. The Overfill device also prevents (ameliorates) venting of excess propane to the atmosphere. <...”Who created and backs the ABYC. I know that their standards are FOR SALE! Are they like UL? UL was and is a lab that is funded by the insurance industry to MINIMIZE their losses. Our safety is a public relations banter”...> The ABYC is supported by it’s membership, consisting (in great part) of Equipment Manufacturers, Boatbuilders, Boat Repair Professionals, and Academics - similar stakeholders to UL’s membership. Limiting the Insurance Industry’s losses seems, to me, to be a GOOD thing. I don’t really want to collect on an insurance claim, nor do I want my heirs to collect - I’d much prefer to avoid the incidents that lead to “loss”. <...”Another example of this fear of, shall I call it, living life(?), is driving on our highways. Leave North America and see how the rest of the world does it. Here we have a paint strip to guide our every move. The result is that drivers never use there cars' accident evasion capability. We drive `by the numbers'. No one dares to have fun on the roads except hot rodders. (I'm one). "...> I think it is (should be?) self-evident that a highway is not a “playground” whose primary function is to allow one to “have fun”. <...”I have been boarded by the Coast Guard several times. A few years ago they would actually look at your safety stuff instead of just searching for drugs. All of the boarding personnel look at my `non ABYC compliant' locker and say it is fine as long as it is vented overboard. They don't care about `loops' and `dips' or the location of your door/lid.”...> Are you suggesting that, because some “Coasties” (that you’ve encountered) don’t know or care about all of the recommended safe practices, that these standards have no value? This would be akin to suggesting that, because you don’t understand the physics of gravity, it doesn’t apply you. <...”I went on about towing a burning Yacht out of Marina de LaPaz and what happened when the propane tank exploded. (not much) That fire, as most are, was caused by poor wiring, not propane.”...> Wiring, no matter how poorly done, does not “explode”. It took the presence of Propane, in the wrong place (at the wrong time), to create the “minor” explosion. Obviously, I wasn’t there, and cannot give specific evidence regarding this occurrence. I will, nonetheless, hazard a guess - that properly designed & installed propane and electrical systems (to ABYC Standards, for instance) would have safely contained the propane gas, and eliminated (or at least isolated) any potential electrical spark. In such a case, it would have required an extensive electrical (or other source) fire to have ignited the propane. <...”Any how, I just thought I'd fire up this site. It's been too quite this summer... OK lets hear it.”> As requested, a “fired up” response, submitted with all due respect, and without prejudice. Best regards, Gord
Further to Fred Ficarra on Propane & Rules: In reply to: Fred Ficarra of Seabeck WA on 11/10 at 10:28AM regarding Propane <...”This attitude about propane is a product of our cultures obsession with safety, propagated by law suite paranoia. Common sense should be the rule, not 'paragraph such and such' followed by 'sub rule whosenfetch'! If a person doesn't know how to do a job, like installing propane, then hire someone who does.”...> Were common sense all that was required to perform adequate (technical) installations, there would be absolutely no need for Engineers, Tradesmen, and such. Well maybe there would, since “Common Sense” doesn’t appear to be all that common - witness the quoted posting.
<...”All of those new tank valves that are required to keep our tanks from being overfilled are BS. When is the last time a propane tank blew up from being overfilled? The pressure in a propane tank is the same whether filled to capacity or containing an eye dropper of liquid. Those overfill protection valves are required because a group of Bureaucrats needed (wanted) to do something to justify their existence and to feel like big shots so they came up with this 'new safety device'.”...> Not true - pressure varies with volume. The Overfill device also prevents (ameliorates) venting of excess propane to the atmosphere. <...”Who created and backs the ABYC. I know that their standards are FOR SALE! Are they like UL? UL was and is a lab that is funded by the insurance industry to MINIMIZE their losses. Our safety is a public relations banter”...> The ABYC is supported by it’s membership, consisting (in great part) of Equipment Manufacturers, Boatbuilders, Boat Repair Professionals, and Academics - similar stakeholders to UL’s membership. Limiting the Insurance Industry’s losses seems, to me, to be a GOOD thing. I don’t really want to collect on an insurance claim, nor do I want my heirs to collect - I’d much prefer to avoid the incidents that lead to “loss”. <...”Another example of this fear of, shall I call it, living life(?), is driving on our highways. Leave North America and see how the rest of the world does it. Here we have a paint strip to guide our every move. The result is that drivers never use there cars' accident evasion capability. We drive `by the numbers'. No one dares to have fun on the roads except hot rodders. (I'm one). "...> I think it is (should be?) self-evident that a highway is not a “playground” whose primary function is to allow one to “have fun”. <...”I have been boarded by the Coast Guard several times. A few years ago they would actually look at your safety stuff instead of just searching for drugs. All of the boarding personnel look at my `non ABYC compliant' locker and say it is fine as long as it is vented overboard. They don't care about `loops' and `dips' or the location of your door/lid.”...> Are you suggesting that, because some “Coasties” (that you’ve encountered) don’t know or care about all of the recommended safe practices, that these standards have no value? This would be akin to suggesting that, because you don’t understand the physics of gravity, it doesn’t apply you. <...”I went on about towing a burning Yacht out of Marina de LaPaz and what happened when the propane tank exploded. (not much) That fire, as most are, was caused by poor wiring, not propane.”...> Wiring, no matter how poorly done, does not “explode”. It took the presence of Propane, in the wrong place (at the wrong time), to create the “minor” explosion. Obviously, I wasn’t there, and cannot give specific evidence regarding this occurrence. I will, nonetheless, hazard a guess - that properly designed & installed propane and electrical systems (to ABYC Standards, for instance) would have safely contained the propane gas, and eliminated (or at least isolated) any potential electrical spark. In such a case, it would have required an extensive electrical (or other source) fire to have ignited the propane. <...”Any how, I just thought I'd fire up this site. It's been too quite this summer... OK lets hear it.”> As requested, a “fired up” response, submitted with all due respect, and without prejudice. Best regards, GordGord must be Crazy......
if he thinks I wouldn't agree with him! Right on Gord-O. And Fred, let me know when you plan to have some fun on the highway so I can plan to stay home and read that day.
if he thinks I wouldn't agree with him! Right on Gord-O. And Fred, let me know when you plan to have some fun on the highway so I can plan to stay home and read that day.
There is no such thing as "common sense"
There ya go Fred. Read my lips again - there is no such thing as common sense. Oh BTW, the only way your nose is going to detect a tiny propane leak is if you are dragging it on the floor.
There ya go Fred. Read my lips again - there is no such thing as common sense. Oh BTW, the only way your nose is going to detect a tiny propane leak is if you are dragging it on the floor.
You guys are great
I could argue for hours. Too many years in law enforcement I guess. Hot rods and police work combine for a lot of my views. Don't get me started on the 'war on drugs'. That is the SECOND biggest rip-off in American history. Come on. Oh, and Jim, if you have to put your nose on the floor to find a leak, it sure as hell isn't going to blow up.
I could argue for hours. Too many years in law enforcement I guess. Hot rods and police work combine for a lot of my views. Don't get me started on the 'war on drugs'. That is the SECOND biggest rip-off in American history. Come on.
Oh, and Jim, if you have to put your nose on the floor to find a leak, it sure as hell isn't going to blow up.Overfill protection valves
Just thought I'd throw-in a bit about the new propane tank overfill valves. I nearly lost a good friend three years ago to a propane explosion. A number of us on the El Dorado SAR OHV team had been asked to volunteer at a large 4wd charity event outside of Truckee, Ca. Called 'Sierra Trek', this event usually gathers about 1300 people for a 3 day event. Our team Captain, Dana, was helping out in the kitchen (looks like a large Army field kitchen)when there was suddenly a huge explosion and fireball. Dana was standing near the center of it all and witnesses report that he was thrown through the air about 30-40 feet. Responding medics found him dazed and burned. Because he had burn signs around the nasal passages and mouth, it was feared he could have inhaled super-heated gases. A medi-vac chopper was called in and Dana was transported to a large trauma center in Sacramento, where he spent 3 weeks in recovery. Turns out that the 50 gallon propane tanks used to fuel the stoves had been severly overfilled by an inexperienced kid at a gas station. When the tanks were brought to the higher altitude and subsequently warmed by the sun, one of them popped its over-pressure valve and let gas out, which found its way to a lit burner and BOOM! So you see, not all safety devices are without merit.
Just thought I'd throw-in a bit about the new propane tank overfill valves. I nearly lost a good friend three years ago to a propane explosion. A number of us on the El Dorado SAR OHV team had been asked to volunteer at a large 4wd charity event outside of Truckee, Ca. Called 'Sierra Trek', this event usually gathers about 1300 people for a 3 day event. Our team Captain, Dana, was helping out in the kitchen (looks like a large Army field kitchen)when there was suddenly a huge explosion and fireball. Dana was standing near the center of it all and witnesses report that he was thrown through the air about 30-40 feet. Responding medics found him dazed and burned. Because he had burn signs around the nasal passages and mouth, it was feared he could have inhaled super-heated gases. A medi-vac chopper was called in and Dana was transported to a large trauma center in Sacramento, where he spent 3 weeks in recovery. Turns out that the 50 gallon propane tanks used to fuel the stoves had been severly overfilled by an inexperienced kid at a gas station. When the tanks were brought to the higher altitude and subsequently warmed by the sun, one of them popped its over-pressure valve and let gas out, which found its way to a lit burner and BOOM! So you see, not all safety devices are without merit.
The OPD wouldn't have made a differance
The pressure relief valve was defective. Sorry about your friend. Oh, OPDs are not installed on 50 gallon tanks or even my 20 gallon tanks. Only the little tanks. Even the horizontal little tanks are now exempt from retro-fitting. Good thing, I have three. The bureaucrats only made the rule apply to the little tanks because they didn't want to create a political fire storm. Pun intended.
The pressure relief valve was defective. Sorry about your friend. Oh, OPDs are not installed on 50 gallon tanks or even my 20 gallon tanks. Only the little tanks. Even the horizontal little tanks are now exempt from retro-fitting. Good thing, I have three. The bureaucrats only made the rule apply to the little tanks because they didn't want to create a political fire storm. Pun intended.
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