I have a 1987 Cat-22. Catalina Direct tells me usual location for breakage is under swage where cable attaches to keel. Recommends replace cable every 2 years at least especially if in salt water because cannot see under the swage to rule out cable corrosion. They believe that most commmon cause of breakage is keeping the cable too loose and flapping around when boat in motion sailing. They recommend two turns on cable winch after letting keel all the way down. But this produces cable hum. Others recommend releasing winch turn or two to eliminate hum if it is annoying. Many sailors seem to love the hum and think of it as a speedometer which increases volume as boat increases speed. I believe Catalina Direct advice not correct. I believe cause of cable wear at that site must be the high vibration frequency required to produce the hum . Thus cable is preserved by always eliminating hum. My boat has been in brackish [i.e. slightly salty] water for 5 years. Because the water gets very shallow at the slip I always retract the keel fully when boat is at the slip. I have just replaced the cable for the first time and I am sure previous owner had not replace it for at least 2 more years. So, after more than 5 years in somewhat salty water I find cable in pristine condition except for break of a single strand high up on the cable. This brak may have occured because it was dragging over a severely warn , no longer rotating turning ball. I sawed open the swage. The cable looks shiny and new inder the swage. It seems to me that my theory is supported and that cable hum should be eliminated to prevent the stress of high vibration frequency where the swage clamps the cable. Moreover salt water [at least slightly salty] seems not to be a problem, at least when the leel is kept fully retracted when in port. Any comments?
Controversy about keel cable breakage
- Thread starter Bill21281
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Keel cable comments . . .
I sold my C22 last year, it was 22 years old and had the original keel cable. It has always been used in salt water. So, Catalina Direct is being a little "over-proctective" shall we say, about recommending frequent replacement of the keel cable. Keel cables break due to metal failure. If your boat is moored in a choppy area, the wave action on the raised keel will add to metal fatigue. Also, if the cable binds up in the winch, then strands of the cable can/will break, leading to failure. Sailing with the keel cable somewhat loose has no adverse effect on the cable, yet relieves you from the hum. Your ounce of prevention is to inspect the keel cable every month or so during the boating season. This will tell you long in advance of any problems. Also, a good visual inspection of the swage during the pre-season will indicate any early signs of problems. Add another swage fitting for further security, if you want. The stories you hear about keel 'droppings' are due to neglect for the most part.
I sold my C22 last year, it was 22 years old and had the original keel cable. It has always been used in salt water. So, Catalina Direct is being a little "over-proctective" shall we say, about recommending frequent replacement of the keel cable. Keel cables break due to metal failure. If your boat is moored in a choppy area, the wave action on the raised keel will add to metal fatigue. Also, if the cable binds up in the winch, then strands of the cable can/will break, leading to failure. Sailing with the keel cable somewhat loose has no adverse effect on the cable, yet relieves you from the hum. Your ounce of prevention is to inspect the keel cable every month or so during the boating season. This will tell you long in advance of any problems. Also, a good visual inspection of the swage during the pre-season will indicate any early signs of problems. Add another swage fitting for further security, if you want. The stories you hear about keel 'droppings' are due to neglect for the most part.
keel cable
I have just removed my keel cable after 35 years of useage. I found that the swaged was good, I didn't see any rust. The cable had no "fish hooks" on the lower end of the cable. The problem I do have is the breaking of cable wires at the winch spool where the cable has tight bends. with the way the keel cable looked and where the "fish hooks" are I'm thinking of placinging two rounded pieces of wood to increase the diameter of the spool a small amount to see if a lesser bend of the cable will keep from getting the "fish hooks" in the cable. I keep my boat on the trailer, but the working of the cable during launching and retreaving and then putting slack in the cable when the boat is on the trailer. I even let my cable hum too. After the inspection I made I am more concerned about the fitting that is in the keel, as I am not able to remove the eye bolt for inspection. I use my catalina (#81) in the salt water of S.F.Bay. Inspection is key. I also found the the trailing edge of the very end of the keel was hitting the fiberglas of he tunnel producing a chaffing of the hull, this is a result of bring the keel up too high and hitting the boat. Over time this could make a hole and leak. Fair winds AL
I have just removed my keel cable after 35 years of useage. I found that the swaged was good, I didn't see any rust. The cable had no "fish hooks" on the lower end of the cable. The problem I do have is the breaking of cable wires at the winch spool where the cable has tight bends. with the way the keel cable looked and where the "fish hooks" are I'm thinking of placinging two rounded pieces of wood to increase the diameter of the spool a small amount to see if a lesser bend of the cable will keep from getting the "fish hooks" in the cable. I keep my boat on the trailer, but the working of the cable during launching and retreaving and then putting slack in the cable when the boat is on the trailer. I even let my cable hum too. After the inspection I made I am more concerned about the fitting that is in the keel, as I am not able to remove the eye bolt for inspection. I use my catalina (#81) in the salt water of S.F.Bay. Inspection is key. I also found the the trailing edge of the very end of the keel was hitting the fiberglas of he tunnel producing a chaffing of the hull, this is a result of bring the keel up too high and hitting the boat. Over time this could make a hole and leak. Fair winds AL
Cable vibration
In re: to the cable vibration. I don't think that keeping the cable tight when the keel is down would cause more wear than a loose cable. Although the tight cable would be vibrating in the 100-300 BPM range, the vibrations like those of a stringed musical instrument would be moving the farthest in the middle of the cable and less so at the ends. Look at an older worn out flag. The shredded part of the flag is at the ends (which equates to the middle of the keel cable) and not where it fastens at the pole. The loose cable on the other hand could be flapping at the point of fastening more harshly than a tight cable becahse it's able to swing farther and hit harder on it's limits. It also may be loose enough to be chaffing on the fiberglass hull. Just some ideas, Bilbo
In re: to the cable vibration. I don't think that keeping the cable tight when the keel is down would cause more wear than a loose cable. Although the tight cable would be vibrating in the 100-300 BPM range, the vibrations like those of a stringed musical instrument would be moving the farthest in the middle of the cable and less so at the ends. Look at an older worn out flag. The shredded part of the flag is at the ends (which equates to the middle of the keel cable) and not where it fastens at the pole. The loose cable on the other hand could be flapping at the point of fastening more harshly than a tight cable becahse it's able to swing farther and hit harder on it's limits. It also may be loose enough to be chaffing on the fiberglass hull. Just some ideas, Bilbo
Keel winch
Al: My 1975 C22 had same problem you mention re/small diameter of winch spool. Newer winches are larger there. So when I replaced my cable a few years ago, I did just what you are suggesting-- increased diameter of the spool with 2 pieces of rounded wood (made from a chunk of an aspen tree about 3 or 4 in. in dia.). Has worked great since then, no more "fish hooks" and it didn't hurt the mechanical advantage of the winch that I can tell. Dick
Al: My 1975 C22 had same problem you mention re/small diameter of winch spool. Newer winches are larger there. So when I replaced my cable a few years ago, I did just what you are suggesting-- increased diameter of the spool with 2 pieces of rounded wood (made from a chunk of an aspen tree about 3 or 4 in. in dia.). Has worked great since then, no more "fish hooks" and it didn't hurt the mechanical advantage of the winch that I can tell. Dick
Keel cable swage
Thanks Dick, I"m glad to see that our thinking are along the same lines. I received my new keel cable today and I'm wanting to get it on quickly. I was talking to my Rigger today(27), He was telling me that the swege needs to be so tight that no water can get into the sweged area that when cut in half through the swege it should look like a solid piece of Stainless steel. (gas tight fit) The swege should be metal to metal, no lubs or anything should be in where the swege surfaces are. The rigger was looking at my old keel cable, he was suprised to see no rust on the lower part of the cable. I kept my old keel cable for show and tell meetings. Fair winds AL
Thanks Dick, I"m glad to see that our thinking are along the same lines. I received my new keel cable today and I'm wanting to get it on quickly. I was talking to my Rigger today(27), He was telling me that the swege needs to be so tight that no water can get into the sweged area that when cut in half through the swege it should look like a solid piece of Stainless steel. (gas tight fit) The swege should be metal to metal, no lubs or anything should be in where the swege surfaces are. The rigger was looking at my old keel cable, he was suprised to see no rust on the lower part of the cable. I kept my old keel cable for show and tell meetings. Fair winds AL
Keel up, swag clear
Because you raise your keel at your slip, the swag at the end of the cable does not rest in water, therefore, you mitigate the rust issues. Nevertheless, the problem with the swags on the cables is they can unexpectedly fail. No quality control program in the manufacturing process can guarantee without a doubt that the swag will perform faultlessly. This is the nature of stainless steel metallurgy. Stainless steel turnbuckles fail unexpectedly as well. Hence, Catalina Direct’s statement to change the cable every two years, which while for the most part is unnecessary, is the only safe position they can take. Nevertheless, we should note that Catalina Direct did receive a batch of cables that were of poor quality and several of these broke when less than a year old. They have subsequently replaced these with better cables, however, several boats may still have these bad cables on them. So again, their statement to replace the cable every two years. Nevertheless, let us not forget that the cable runs in a system that includes a turning ball and winch. Both the turning ball and winch must be in proper operating condition for the cable to move smoothly through lowering and raising of the keel.
Because you raise your keel at your slip, the swag at the end of the cable does not rest in water, therefore, you mitigate the rust issues. Nevertheless, the problem with the swags on the cables is they can unexpectedly fail. No quality control program in the manufacturing process can guarantee without a doubt that the swag will perform faultlessly. This is the nature of stainless steel metallurgy. Stainless steel turnbuckles fail unexpectedly as well. Hence, Catalina Direct’s statement to change the cable every two years, which while for the most part is unnecessary, is the only safe position they can take. Nevertheless, we should note that Catalina Direct did receive a batch of cables that were of poor quality and several of these broke when less than a year old. They have subsequently replaced these with better cables, however, several boats may still have these bad cables on them. So again, their statement to replace the cable every two years. Nevertheless, let us not forget that the cable runs in a system that includes a turning ball and winch. Both the turning ball and winch must be in proper operating condition for the cable to move smoothly through lowering and raising of the keel.
Clevis ...not a swage
The fitting on the end of the keel cable is a clevis. It is swaged (cold crimped or pressed) to secure it to the cable. My home made SS clevis is about 4" long. The cable is flared & silver soldered 4" into the clevis. It has been in use (fresh water) for 14 years & has no sign of breakage or wear. I must have the only C22 without a keel cable turning ball! No sign of hull damage. The steel fitting where the hose is clamped, is glassed into the "volcano" & is not drilled for the turning ball shaft or pin. I removed the hose & cleaned this steel fitting with a file, no sign of a hole. I always keep the keel in the "up" position when not sailing. I glued a small flat piece of neoprene to the underside of the keel trunk. When the keel is "up" it is pulled into contact with the neoprene, not the trunk. Regards, Bob B. 1980 C22 #9102
The fitting on the end of the keel cable is a clevis. It is swaged (cold crimped or pressed) to secure it to the cable. My home made SS clevis is about 4" long. The cable is flared & silver soldered 4" into the clevis. It has been in use (fresh water) for 14 years & has no sign of breakage or wear. I must have the only C22 without a keel cable turning ball! No sign of hull damage. The steel fitting where the hose is clamped, is glassed into the "volcano" & is not drilled for the turning ball shaft or pin. I removed the hose & cleaned this steel fitting with a file, no sign of a hole. I always keep the keel in the "up" position when not sailing. I glued a small flat piece of neoprene to the underside of the keel trunk. When the keel is "up" it is pulled into contact with the neoprene, not the trunk. Regards, Bob B. 1980 C22 #9102
My keel cable clevis is in the water
when the keel is in the up position, I think. I just took at it, on the trailer & I am quite sure it would be in the water. The hull must draw about 6"-8" of water at that location?
when the keel is in the up position, I think. I just took at it, on the trailer & I am quite sure it would be in the water. The hull must draw about 6"-8" of water at that location?
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