Peggy- I just purchased a book called "Why didn't I think of that?" 1001 things every sailboat owner should know. In regard to head odors, the book recommended using bleach and hot water to clean the head, lines, and holding tank. This goes against your advice, as stated in earlier posts/articles, and I think "clearing the air" (pun intended) would be helpful. Regards, Scott "Southern Wind"
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I haven't seen the book, but I've seen...
...enough like it to know that while some of his 1001 ideas are downright brilliant, the majority are mostly common sense...and some would make any competent surveyor cringe. More bad advice is offered about the sanitation system than any other system or equipment on a boat, 'cuz everyone starts from false assumptions and nobody thinks of it as a "system"--they try to address each part of it separately don't think in terms of the consequences to the entire system. Even Calder--the ultimate authority when it comes to engines and electrical systems--doesn't understand the sanitation system or why something stinks--or doesn't. Bleach is a good example. It's the most over-rated, over-used product on a boat, and is among the most destructive. Yes...pouring it down the toilet will kill odor in the toilet--for a while. But it's also highly destructive to rubber, neoprene and flex PVC (hoses)--iow, all the seals, valves and gaskets in every pump on your boat. It doesn't clean anything...it doesn't dissolve anything...break down anything...it just kills enough--but not all--of the bacteria to knock down the odor for a while. I'd love to know why he thinks hot water is better than cold. Unlike bleach, it won't hurt anything--although it does soften hose which could make it more susceptible to odor permeation, but it's also kinda counterproductive...'cuz it raises the temperature in the system, which accelerates bacteria multiplication...which in turn brings back odor faster...which leads to pouring more bleach and hot water down the head...<sigh> I've also seen people recommend removing the head discharge hose and beating it on the dock to knock out the urine crystals and sea water calcium carbonates that have built up in it--which could have been prevented, along with odor in the toilet bowl, and without damage to the system, with the use of white vinegar instead of bleach. I've devoted 15 years to one system/issue on boats: the sanitation system and odor problems--understanding the inter-relationship of all the parts in a sanitation system, the principles that determine whether or not something stinks, and how to apply 'em...but I haven't written a book yet. I have no idea what this particular author's credentials are, but he has written a book. So I guess you'll just have to decide for yourself whose advice you want to follow.
...enough like it to know that while some of his 1001 ideas are downright brilliant, the majority are mostly common sense...and some would make any competent surveyor cringe. More bad advice is offered about the sanitation system than any other system or equipment on a boat, 'cuz everyone starts from false assumptions and nobody thinks of it as a "system"--they try to address each part of it separately don't think in terms of the consequences to the entire system. Even Calder--the ultimate authority when it comes to engines and electrical systems--doesn't understand the sanitation system or why something stinks--or doesn't. Bleach is a good example. It's the most over-rated, over-used product on a boat, and is among the most destructive. Yes...pouring it down the toilet will kill odor in the toilet--for a while. But it's also highly destructive to rubber, neoprene and flex PVC (hoses)--iow, all the seals, valves and gaskets in every pump on your boat. It doesn't clean anything...it doesn't dissolve anything...break down anything...it just kills enough--but not all--of the bacteria to knock down the odor for a while. I'd love to know why he thinks hot water is better than cold. Unlike bleach, it won't hurt anything--although it does soften hose which could make it more susceptible to odor permeation, but it's also kinda counterproductive...'cuz it raises the temperature in the system, which accelerates bacteria multiplication...which in turn brings back odor faster...which leads to pouring more bleach and hot water down the head...<sigh> I've also seen people recommend removing the head discharge hose and beating it on the dock to knock out the urine crystals and sea water calcium carbonates that have built up in it--which could have been prevented, along with odor in the toilet bowl, and without damage to the system, with the use of white vinegar instead of bleach. I've devoted 15 years to one system/issue on boats: the sanitation system and odor problems--understanding the inter-relationship of all the parts in a sanitation system, the principles that determine whether or not something stinks, and how to apply 'em...but I haven't written a book yet. I have no idea what this particular author's credentials are, but he has written a book. So I guess you'll just have to decide for yourself whose advice you want to follow.
I'd go with Head Mistress over 1001.
In the couple years I have followed sailing BBs, I've found the Peggy's knowledge in this field to be unparalled, by far. Peggy, you shold write a book.
In the couple years I have followed sailing BBs, I've found the Peggy's knowledge in this field to be unparalled, by far. Peggy, you shold write a book.
Many thanks fom me and my girlfriend
I truly appreciate your time in reponding to my question. I'll take your advice.
I truly appreciate your time in reponding to my question. I'll take your advice.
Peggie, what will the title be?
"All the stinkin' advice you wanted to know, but didn't know who to ask!" "Pottie Privey" "Sano-advice" Can't wait to hear.
"All the stinkin' advice you wanted to know, but didn't know who to ask!" "Pottie Privey" "Sano-advice" Can't wait to hear.
Careful guys, we need to be on Peggies good side.
Not me though, I'm perfect. P.s. Peggie, it a fully functioning recurculating head. What is the problem with this system? Is it sail related or just nasty in general? Gee, it's even got a...ah grinder thing and can pump over board from the holding tank. Greg H23 Faster-
Not me though, I'm perfect. P.s. Peggie, it a fully functioning recurculating head. What is the problem with this system? Is it sail related or just nasty in general? Gee, it's even got a...ah grinder thing and can pump over board from the holding tank. Greg H23 Faster-
Working title is...
"Flush With Success - A boat owners guide to trouble-free, odor-free marine sanitation systems" Somehow I thought that sounded JUST a little more professional than "Potty Training Advice From the Princess of Poop."
"Flush With Success - A boat owners guide to trouble-free, odor-free marine sanitation systems" Somehow I thought that sounded JUST a little more professional than "Potty Training Advice From the Princess of Poop."
Recirculating toilets
stink--And there's no cure for it. Plus there's that oh-so-aesthetically pleasing aspect of watching everything you've put into it previously take another trip through the bowl each time you flush it. Several mfrs tried them in the 60's and into the '70s...Monogram, Thetford...even Danforth tried to get into the potty biz with a recirculator. Not a one survived because a) the state tank capacity may be 5 gallons, but 3 gallons has to be sacrificed to flushwater and chemical, leaving only room for two of waste...and b) the d'd things stink! I was absolutely astonished when Thetford introduced a new one a few years ago...'cuz I've never had a call from an owner of a recirculator who wasn't desperate to get rid of the odor from it. Then I remembered that Thetford is a major player in the RV/camper toilet market...marine is just an add-on market for them. And it (kinda) makes sense in a pop top camper or really small camper trailer out in the woods, miles from any water supply. But hey...if you're happy with it, mazel tov! You may be the only one in existance who is, though!
stink--And there's no cure for it. Plus there's that oh-so-aesthetically pleasing aspect of watching everything you've put into it previously take another trip through the bowl each time you flush it. Several mfrs tried them in the 60's and into the '70s...Monogram, Thetford...even Danforth tried to get into the potty biz with a recirculator. Not a one survived because a) the state tank capacity may be 5 gallons, but 3 gallons has to be sacrificed to flushwater and chemical, leaving only room for two of waste...and b) the d'd things stink! I was absolutely astonished when Thetford introduced a new one a few years ago...'cuz I've never had a call from an owner of a recirculator who wasn't desperate to get rid of the odor from it. Then I remembered that Thetford is a major player in the RV/camper toilet market...marine is just an add-on market for them. And it (kinda) makes sense in a pop top camper or really small camper trailer out in the woods, miles from any water supply. But hey...if you're happy with it, mazel tov! You may be the only one in existance who is, though!
I bow to your wisdom of course Peggie....
It's outta dare!!!! How about a Cricket? Greg H23 -Faster
It's outta dare!!!! How about a Cricket? Greg H23 -Faster
Flush with Success....
Yes, that sounds much more sophicated but............."Potty Training Advice From the Princess of Poop." is so catchy. People in Nebraska may even buy the book. (just kidding Nebraska)
Yes, that sounds much more sophicated but............."Potty Training Advice From the Princess of Poop." is so catchy. People in Nebraska may even buy the book. (just kidding Nebraska)
Cricket's good...so is a PH II
You can't go wrong with either one. I'm kinda fond of the Cricket 'cuz it has a diaphragm directly below the bowl instead of the usual piston/cylinder pump beside the bowl. No moving parts...no seals that need regular replacing. In fact the "repair" kit is the entire pump assembly except for the housing... you'd only need one about as often as you'd need a whole new pump assy for any other toilet. Otoh, the PH II has always been considered the best manual marine toilet in its price range. They're about the same price...go with the one you like the best.
You can't go wrong with either one. I'm kinda fond of the Cricket 'cuz it has a diaphragm directly below the bowl instead of the usual piston/cylinder pump beside the bowl. No moving parts...no seals that need regular replacing. In fact the "repair" kit is the entire pump assembly except for the housing... you'd only need one about as often as you'd need a whole new pump assy for any other toilet. Otoh, the PH II has always been considered the best manual marine toilet in its price range. They're about the same price...go with the one you like the best.
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