Construction of the keel

N

nkoskine

.
Oct 30, 2019
7
Hi,

A few months ago there was some discussion about a hidden void in the
keel, below the bilge area.

I found out about this void when I noticed some moisture in the aft
part of the keel. I drilled a small hole there and noticed the keel
was filled with polyurethane foam, which was now completely saturated
with water.

Now I have made three large holes in the area and removed all of the
wet foam. And there was lots of it, this void is huge!

But I am hesitating what to do next. Should I fill the void again,
hoping that modern closed-cell urethane foams are better than their
60's counterparts? Or should I try some other compound? Or simply
leave the void empty - and install a small drain plug in case some
water gets there again. I wonder if leaving the void empty would
weaken the keel structure?

I made a picture of the construction of my keel and uploaded it to the
files section. My hull is #68 from 1967, I suppose all early Vegas
have a similar construction.

As you can see in the picture, the void in question is really large.
I'm not sure how water got there in the first place, I suppose it came
through the bilge. The plywood planks supporting the bottom of the
bilge were also wet, but not yet rotten.

In my opinion this is a serious issue in all Vegas with this kind of
construction. Water in the void may cause freezing damage and
eventually delamination of the keel. Plus the saturated foam will
loose any structural signifigance, it it ever had any. Has someone
else opened their keel to see what is inside? I wonder if they are all
filled with this stupid foam.

A really bad design by the manufacturer, in my opinion. Inside the
void I also found two iron nails, a few copper nuts and some really
sloppy laminating work. Half expected to find some cigarette butts
too! I'm no more convinced of the excellent build quality these boats
are said to have...

Nuutti
 
B

bart_v_e_8614

.
Oct 30, 2019
12
Hi Nuutti & others,

At the moment I'm busy with the keel of my V1311 Capella. The outer bottem
of it should have a coating of gelcoat to prevent the polyester from getting
wet. Most of the gelcoat is disappeared because Dutch waters are pretty
shallow... Now I will recoat it with epoxy.

To be sure the epoxy will hold, I measured the relative humidity of the
polyester... Ooops 100% after several months on land... I knew about the
void, and created a closable 'inspection hole', somewhere after the
batteries. Indeed the void is huge ! Mine doesn't have any foam inside, and
I would like it to keep it this way ! The most probable place where water
may have entered the void is via the second drain plug. It is a small cupper
or bronze 4 or 5 mm screw installed some 40 cm's lower than the drain plug
of the bilge. Mine was weakend by salt water. The screw should be removed
during winter. If water comes out then you know there is a problem. I will
leave the void as it is: empty. Probably Albin decided to not fill it with
foam in later models, see it as a small improvement. Since the thickness of
the polyester in the keel is more than 1 cm, the foam can easily be missed.

Hope this helps.

Bart
 
B

bart_v_e_8614

.
Oct 30, 2019
12
Nuuti,
I just saw your drawing of the cross-section of your Vega keel, and noticed
that you have 'plywood' that separates the bilge from the void. Interesting,
in my nr.1311 this part is made of around 1 cm thick polyester laminate. I
don't know the thickness of the vertical part of the keel, but expect it to
be 1 cm as well ...
When you have doubts about the construction, you can laminate the plywood
with an extra laminate. That will do !
good luck

Bart
 
Z

zaza_sese

.
Oct 31, 2019
16
Hi
This winter I fixed the aft of the keel - after I hit a rock while motoring
during last summer.
I removed all polyester, which was obviously humid since the gelcoat was
scraped off by the rock, and exposed the iron ballast. Some water has come
out. Do you think it might be from this void? If so, wouldn't it be a good
idea to make a hole at the bottom of the void and place a screw that can be
removed occasionally to let the water out?

m
 
A

aladams08852

.
Oct 30, 2019
14
Hull #395 was also saturated. Did you find the source of the water? I
have removed all the form but can not find the source of the water. Any
thoughts?
 
T

towlerg

.
Mar 27, 2001
121
Hi Nutti,

on my boat there is a gap in the glassed-in joint between hull and
floor on the port side (don't know about stb). You'll have to lift
the ventilating duct under the berth to see it. I'll try to post pics
tomorrow.

George "Vista" 1043
 
T

towlerg

.
Mar 27, 2001
121
Hi Albert,

sorry, misread senders name.

Also forgot to ask - how did you access the foam? Did you cut a hole?
if so where?George "Vista" 1043
 
A

aladams08852

.
Oct 30, 2019
14
I CUT 5 HOLES. 2 ON ONE SIDE 3 ON THE OTHER. 2 OF THE HOLES WERE
OPPISITE EACH OTHER. THIS WAS DONE SO AIR WOULD CIRCULATE.THE HOLES WERE
6 INCHES IN DIAMETER. I THEN USED AN ICE CREAM SCOOP TO CLEAR THE VOID.
I USED GLASS MAT ON THE INSIDE WHERE I COULD(2 HOLES) AND PLY WOOD ON
THE BLIND HOLES USING WOOD SCREWS TO PULL THEM TO THE INSIDE OF THE
KEEL. ON THE WOOD I USED "WEST SYSTEM" POLY+HARDNER AND HAIR GLASS
BETWEEN THE WOOD AND KEEL. NEXT WEEKEND I WILL FINISH THE PATCHES.
 
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