considering new sail slides

[JonnyQuest]

I have read that old sail slides/slugs can add resistance/friction and inhibit the main sail from dropping completely when released, so I am looking for advice.

My main halyard has been a bear to hoist and upon dousing only came down partially on its own. I have just used SailKote on my slides and sail track for main sail, and it slides much easier now. When dousing the main I release the halyard and MOST of the main drops easily, but for the last 4 feet I still need to pull down to get it down completely. Would new sail slides help or not? I assume there is still going to be some resistance as the main sail bunches up, so new slides may be of no benefit after all.

The current sail slides are loose fitted flat blade white plastic types with the plastic clips joining them to the main sail. I expect they are quite old.

Thanks for the input.

JQ

 

[Steve Dion]

You may want to consider replacing those nylon ones with a silicon bronze unit.

You may also have an issue with an oversized halyard. They sometimes can swell up from moisture. Going down one size sometimes helps.

Be sure that you CLEAN the track before you lube it too.

 

[kenn]

You need to determine exactly where the drag is coming from - could be the slugs, in which case you should be able to see where they hang up, or it could be the halyard system, which you could test by disconnecting it from the head of the sail, tying another line to it, and pulling back and forth through the sheaves to determine how free-running it is.

When we converted to slugs I cleaned the whole mast slot, and used a fine file on any roughness. We haven't needed to lube anything yet.

 

[Ross]

The last four feet of sail isn't very heavy anyway. When I douse my main I direct the folds port and starboard as in comes down because it is easier to flake that way. I like for the headboard to come down in the starboard side so that I can secure it at the winch.

 

[JonnyQuest]

That's a good idea separating the halyard to see where the friction is coming from.

The slides do have a fair bit of lateral play in them whether by design or wear. This can add to the friction.

I'll check the halyard first for friction.

 

[Marty A]

I have to say I'd be surprised if the last 4 feet fell on it's own under any circumstances, but maybe I'm not being ambitious enough. FWIW, I had some sticking problems this year until I lubed each slide - now everything glides just fine ;-)

 

[JonnyQuest]

Hey Marty
Yep I'm thinking too that needing to grab the last 4 feet is pretty standard and high tech slides wouldn't help enough since the sail will still need compressing and flaking for that last bit.

 

[rardiH36]

What I think is always missed in threads about friction with standard slides is that it really helps that the topping lift or rigid boom vang is set so that the boom is at a high enough level that when the sail is all the way up, the boom will drop down several inches or more when the topping lift (or rigid vang) is slackened until the sail/leach holds it up naturally. Otherwise a lot of friction is transferred to the sail slides. I learned this soon after starting to sail a few years ago. If my boom was too low when I raised the sail, no matter how much tension I winched onto the halyard, the lower section of the mainsail's luff would never get taught enough to prevent scallops when the wind pipes up. If the boom is raised, I can pull the sail all the way up by hand. If it isn't I need the winch to get it up the last 1/3 or so. And the sail will pretty much douse itself at the end of the sail when I've got the boom up. Won't do it if the boom is low.

 

[hewebb]

I replaced the masthead sheaves and halyards and the top sail slides. My sail drops easily all the way down now.

 

[kenn]

What I think is always missed in threads about friction with standard slides is that it really helps that the topping lift or rigid boom vang is set so that the boom is at a high enough level that when the sail is all the way up, the boom will drop down several inches or more when the topping lift (or rigid vang) is slackened until the sail/leach holds it up naturally. Otherwise a lot of friction is transferred to the sail slides.... If the boom is raised, I can pull the sail all the way up by hand. ...And the sail will pretty much douse itself at the end of the sail when I've got the boom up. Won't do it if the boom is low.

Great point. You've inspired me to confirm this, and to mark the topping lift for sufficient boom height to take pull off the slugs.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Thanks Rardi and Hewe. I'll work on the boom height as described. No plans to go aloft or drop mast to check on sheaves but it'll be on the todo list. Replacing halyard may be on order however, it's OLD. Is consensus to drop down one size as mentioned earlier in this thread?

 

[rardiH36]

Replacing halyard may be on order however, it's OLD. Is consensus to drop down one size as mentioned earlier in this thread?

Not sure your current halyard diameter. Has been on the boat forever -- as was mine when I bought my boat several years ago? If so current technology lines are vastly better in strength and stretch characteristics for a given diameter than say the 1980's when our boat builders specified the line sizes for each application. I currently have a 3/8" mainsheet halyard on my 36' boat (albeit it is premium grade line). Probably is stronger than 1/2" in 1980. Some sailors prefer larger diameter because it feels better in the hands for gripping. I've got very large hands, but the 3/8" diameter feels fine. Also this is a line that is generally used on once per sail. Not like the mainsheet or jib sheet. 3/8" is plenty strong enough, bends around sheaves and blocks a bit better than larger diameter, and saves a few $'s. Just my 3/8" worth.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

JONNY,

My C30 (1980) original sheaves were for wire-rope halyards. Didn't work well with all- rope halyards. I did change my cracked mast crane, and now have the correct sheaves. Works well when raising & lowering.

Rardi brought up a good overlooked problem. When out sailing look for boats where the booms are hanging lower at the end than at the mast. Then look at the leach area of their sail. You will notice that by using a lower boom this way, there will be vertical stretch lines on alot of them. New sails won't show this, but you will be surprised at the number of boats & sails reflect this. With the main up, the boom should be horizontal, not angled down.

I have a snaplock on the side of my boom for adjusting the topping lift. I can reach it from my cabin top. And my boom is always set with about a 10° angle up. This allows my slides to move freely both up & down without the luff pulling at the slides.

After adjusting the luff, I then slacken the topping lift. The stresses on the main are even along the luff, leach & foot. Also if you use a boom vang, have it loose before raising the main. Also make sure you have enough slack in your boom control or traveler. There should be no tension at all on the boom when raising.

Hope this helps pal.......
CR

 

[Florida sail]

When i changed my halyard from 9/16 to 7/16 and replaced my ss slides with bronze it made all the difference in the world. In addition i shoot a bit of dishwashing liquid 50:50 with HOH on the slides every now and then.

 

[weh5748]

I'm interested in the reply that mentioned a rigid boom vang to take the weight off the boom which is causing increased friction on the slugs in raising and lowering the sail. Once I unclip my boom from the clip on the aft stay which i need to do before raising the main in any kind of wind, it drops like a rock onto the deck or into cockpit swinging around until i fully raise the main, which is also more difficult due to that increased weight/friction. I would love to find a way to hold boom up while allowing it to swing free and luff. Are these available for small boats (ODay 19) and any ideas where to purchase if so? Thanks.

 

[Doc_holiday]

A 59c tube of chap stick. I keep one handy. As you raise the sail, mash a little chap stick in the track above each slug. Makes a great lubricant. My new sail was hanging up. Just needed a little "grease" on the slugs and all is good.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Weh5748, I assume you have a pigtail off your backstay that you are clipped to. Assuming you can raise your main with it still attached to the pigtail, does this raise the boom enough to slacken the pigtail connection somewhat? If so then keep your main sheeted in and don't disconnect your pigtail until after the main is up and slackening the pigtail. Reverse this step for lowering the main.

I'm new to this so if I'm off base then disregard. Good luck !

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Jonny,

My old 22 footer had a clip on quasi topping lift, which isn't a topping in the true sense at all.

I do remember all the problems this created. Someone here has mentioned a solid boom vang. This would be the way I would go. Look for one similar to the forspar (internal spring) that has an external rope boom set of blocks. I have seen problems with hydraulics & some spring ones, but the latter should work better for you.

I have a 30 footer and mine works great. This would also give you the option to run or not run a full topping lift.

Make sure you don't go lightweight if not using a topping lift. It would be a shame to put a skimpy one on and find it underated. I do use my topping lift in addition to the vang as a backup.

CR

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Weh5748, I assume you have a pigtail off your backstay that you are clipped to. Assuming you can raise your main with it still attached to the pigtail, does this raise the boom enough to slacken the pigtail connection somewhat? If so then keep your main sheeted in and don't disconnect your pigtail until after the main is up and slackening the pigtail. Reverse this step for lowering the main.

I'm new to this so if I'm off base then disregard. Good luck !

That is a recipe for disaster. I detest the backstay pigtails- rig a proper topping lift, or at the very least, make the pig tail hook VERY weak.

If you EVER get caught with a gust while raising the main, with that pig tail still connected, you can put the rail in the water in a heartbeat. You have absolutely zero chance of paying out sail with it connected.

Happened to me ONCE, years ago. I've had a topping lift on the main ever since, on every boat I've owned. On customer boats, we used to just cut the damned things off and install a lift.

 

[JonnyQuest]

That is a recipe for disaster. I detest the backstay pigtails- rig a proper topping lift, or at the very least, make the pig tail hook VERY weak.

If you EVER get caught with a gust while raising the main, with that pig tail still connected, you can put the rail in the water in a heartbeat. You have absolutely zero chance of paying out sail with it connected.

Happened to me ONCE, years ago. I've had a topping lift on the main ever since, on every boat I've owned. On customer boats, we used to just cut the damned things off and install a lift.

That sounds like a good safety point, I'd start thinking more about a boom kicker or ridged boom vang then. Thanks for the input here!