Considering a C30 Purchase

[Kper]

We currently own a C25 and have been considering a C30. Just so happens.... a '77 model is available nearby, which happens, like.... never, so we took a look. It appears to be "well used" but cared for, as well. If that makes any sense. Aside from some rub rail rash that has spider webbed the glass underneath and pinched the metal rub rail base in many spots, the only other area of concern was the keel. It has what I might consider the "typical" crack at the keel joint and some water staining down the keel. The owner has some obvious health issues and hasn't sailed her in 6 years so she's been on the trailer for 6 years.

He claims aside from the leaky windows, the bilge stays dry. I'm not sure if a weakened keel mount allows water into the bilge but the crack has me concerned. At this point my concern is mainly because I am uneducated with the C30 keel issues. He admits to have grounded it a couple times and has done some "cosmetic" work to the leading edge of the keel.

Could some of the leaking from what he thinks is the windows be coming from the hull joint due to the hits the rub rail has taken?

Is there any advice anyone might be willing to give with what I've shared?

 

[JohnVTX]

I too had a Catalina 25 and moved up recently to a 30. The spider cracks can be dealt with a product called Magic Ezy. Get the Snow White Color for a Catalina 30. Keel issue you speak of is called the Catalina Smile and there are many fixes for it right here on this forum. Most likely not a cause for bilge water. Almost all my bilge water comes from rain. I have a diesel inboard and get almost no water from my dripless shaft seal. Biggest issues you want to look for are soft spots on decking and the chain plates leaking through the decking. Check where they attach inside the cabin on the bulkhead for corrosion and softness.

 

[Kper]

We were very fortunate when we purchased our C25 and got a great one (our first boat) - no soft spots de-lamination, etc. When checking for soft spots is it adequate to simply use my body weight? Maybe check for de-lamination in these areas, also?

Just a note: It's a '77 SR model with the gas engine. It has a wheel that I believe to be added, a handful of electronics including auto-pilot, jib furler, new sails and a custom, triple axle road trailer - $15k.

As far as the keel, is this something I can do? I'm not sure I trust anyone locally to perform the task unless a good fiberglass shop can perform it. Can it be done on the trailer or must the keel be dropped. I'll perform a search when I have more than 2 minutes to sit!

Thanks for the quick reply!

Edit:
I might add that he's been trying to sell for 4 or 5 years which has me concerned. I think I remember it advertised last year for $20kobo

 

[Stu Jackson]

You could do a LOT better than a '77 that's been sitting for six years for a C30. Even if he gave it to you for free. On a trailer? What will you use to move it? It's HUGE. Other issues are the mast step inside the boat, written up here on this forum, too.

We skipped the C30 stage and went from a C22>>C25>>C34. But that's just us. But when we started looking we looked at C30s first. The older ones left a lot to be desired. Forget about the engine for the moment, since the A4s are great if maintained. The older boats had tiller cockpit setups, with wheels being an owner mod. Which also required moving the engine controls from the foot well to the coaming side. Many were not done very well, and the tiller cockpit with the wheel is not as ergonomic as the later T shaped cockpit when the wheel became standard.

You don't need a Mark II or III with a walk though transom to get a newer C30 Mark I cockpit and diesel engine. The older diesel boats had smaller engines. Not worth going into the debate about power, there's enough been written already.

Good luck.

 

[Stu Jackson]

You could do a LOT better than a '77 that's been sitting for six years for a C30. Even if he gave it to you for free. On a trailer? What will you use to move it? It's HUGE. Other issues are the mast step inside the boat, written up here on this forum, too.

We skipped the C30 stage and went from a C22>>C25>>C34. But that's just us. But when we started looking we looked at C30s first. The older ones left a lot to be desired. Forget about the engine for the moment, since the A4s are great if maintained. The older boats had tiller cockpit setups, with wheels being an owner mod. Which also required moving the engine controls from the foot well to the coaming side. Many were not done very well, and the tiller cockpit with the wheel is not as ergonomic as the later T shaped cockpit when the wheel became standard.

You don't need a Mark II or III with a walk though transom to get a newer C30 Mark I cockpit and diesel engine. The older diesel boats had smaller engines. Not worth going into the debate about power, there's enough been written already.

Good luck.

 

[druid]

Ah, the "Catalina Smile" Don't worry about the crack where the keel is bolted to the hull - all older Catalinas have that and it's not a problem.

I would be concerned about a boat that's been out of the water that long: things like stuffing-box and even the thru-hulls might get dried out. What's the engine like? Hasn't been started in 5 years? Do the sails smell bad? Does the wheel turn the rudder easily (steering cable probably needs to be lubricated)? And so on...

druid

 

[Anonymous 121765]

KP,

I will probably take some hits for my opinions but, I can tell you this. Forty years in the engineering/design field, I would NOT go this route again.

Boat building in the '70's before the oil price problem is NOT my boat to buy. Fiberglass strength was still unproven for strength during these years. You can buy it but, in design/engineering/maintenance & upgrades, I know now what I know now. I would personally would walk away & look for a modern boat. Do you want to save money upfront or, would you rather sail & have a manageable boat?

I bought a 1980 MKII & spent two years bringing it up to snuff. If thinking it's a CHEAP deal, I'm sorry my friend, as boat design has changed considerably since then. Back then it was about packaging & not about maintenance.

I STILL have leaking windows that I have redone several times & Frank butler did design a roomy boat but at some cost. Back then, there was no such thing as Quality Control, as boat builders have today. Boat builders worked on a shoestring budget back then. Hell, my boat was built with mostly Vietnamese immigrants. So, if it were me, I would not buy a boat more then ten years old & have a surveyor look at it first.

Newer boats are designed better with greater access for maintenance & size DOES matter. A '70's boat, maybe not so.

So you need ask your self, do you want to sail or, do you put out thousands of dollars & countless hours to bring her up to snuff, only to discover that ALL the other maintenance items constantly have to play catch-up.

If money is not an object, go for it. Me on the other hand, I would knot, because of my experience with sweat-equity & costs.

If anyone disagrees with me, I don't wanna hear it. All boats are maintained differently. If you look at price FIRST thinking it's a good deal, prepare to be disappointed. Do you wanna work or, do you wanna SAIL?
That's what you want to ask yourself pal.

CR

 

[druid]

Strangely enough, I have the opposite opinion to Capn Ron (although it is just that: an opinion).

I find the 70's boats MUCH better-built than the modern ones - especially in the under-36 ft class. Glass is thicker (because they didn't know how strong it would be), wood is thicker (3/4" ply for the V-berth on my Cal 25, compared to 1/4 fibreglass on my Catalina 36), and, well, built for sustaining heavy-weather as opposed to being comfortable at the dock. My 1976 Ontario 32 has a pilot-berth, and 2x30 gal freshwater tanks - try to find THAT in a modern Hunter or Beneteau. I looked at the new Hunter and Beneteau 32's (approx) and hell, they don't even have a backstay! ( I know about the swept-back shrouds, but you won't catch me flying a chute in 25 knots without a backstay!)

Now, of course after 40 years there's some leaks, degradation, rust, etc. but I'd like to see a 2015 Hunter in 40 years...

druid

 

[Joe]

KP,

I will probably take some hits for my opinions but, I can tell you this...........................

Let me second Druid's opinion in disagreeing with Cap'n Pal .... As Kurt Russell once said..."that's a bunch of malarkey"

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Guys,

I was referring to the lack of workmanship I've discovered on my '80 boat & my friend's '77 Catalina.
The designs were good but, the quality of workmanship was lacking. Coring or should I say the lack of it, caused problems mainly structural/sealing. My boat was built in California & you would not believe the shoddy cutouts with no coring in the cabin vertical sides for my windows. Some of the cutouts had only a 1/8" frame overlap. The 2 pc. window frames were a failure in design & without coring. Just search earlier threads about an older Catalina & window problems. Remember to look at the year of the boat & see if there is a pattern here.

The main reason for my earlier post was only to recommend a newer-made boat yea, with a higher selling price but, "Bring up to Date condition" may be offset in less fix-up time, sweat equity & money in the long run.

Everyone is different in their approach to ownership. I just wanted KP to have additional information and/or a cautionary approach for buying a boat. The more we know, the better our decision-making.

CR

 

[The Garbone]

Ehh, As we approach working 2 years on our 78' here is my take.

$15k seems steep but for the fact your in Iowa and this is this a fresh water boat. If salt water the A4 will probably need a resleeve and conversion to FWC.

I would bet all the Rigging will need replacement.

Stuffing box, impeller, bottom paint etc, those are all regular maintenance things anyway, replace before splashing.

I would take the sails to a loft and have them checked out. We did ours that way, the jib was salvageable but we needed a new main.

Good luck.

 

[FredB]

I've sailed my '78 purchased by me in 2004 all over the southeast and Bahamas. headed to Cuba in the spring. Rhombus was a fresh water boat for its first 17 years in Wisconsin. I love the boat. She still looks great, my ports have never leaked, and with my dripless stuffing box put in a few years ago, I have a dry bilge unless I run the A/C. I did have a leak inside the mast around the conduit that housed the wires through the cabin top. When I fixed that during re-rigging, small leaks all over the boat went away. Water, evidently, was getting in between the inner and outer cabin shell and finding its way out wherever it could. There are a lot of nice Catalina 30s around. Mine has been good to me and would be the easiest boat in the marina to sell, which I have no intention of doing. I did write a review of my boat you can read at SouthwindsMagazine.com, December 2014.

 

[Jalepeno]

I strongly agree with Druid.
The earlier sailboats are built much stronger than the new beach toys.
Which is better for you depends on where and how you plan to sail.

 

[Kper]

This may or may not seem crazy but, the admiral and I have been talking for the last year about retirement plans. Over the last 30+ years of marriage, kids and grand kids we've aquired so much crap that we no longer find joy in the house, our stuff or all the work and money that goes into maintaining that sort of lifestyle. With our 3 decades of military service we are the self proclaimed king and queen of adapting and/or starting over.

With that said we are considering selling the house and all the associated "stuff" that goes with it and dramatically downsizing - maybe even renting. This would do a couple things for us... it would free up time to dedicate to travel and time on the water learning. At the same time it would free up cash to save towards a possible live-aboard which is the ultimate goal, at least half the year.

The initial thought of purchasing the C30 was to get some experience on a larger boat on our local lake while we put in our last several years before retiring. We're also thinking of just sailing the C25 for the next 3-4 years then purchasing something on Lake Michigan (5 hrs away) and weekending on it until we ultimately start spending our summers on it. At that time we may have a pretty good handle on whether or not we want to fulltime somewhere down south.

Not sure why I shared this other than to let you know why my interest in the C30.

 

[Stu Jackson]

We're also thinking of just sailing the C25 for the next 3-4 years then purchasing something on Lake Michigan (5 hrs away) and weekending on it until we ultimately start spending our summers on it. At that time we may have a pretty good handle on whether or not we want to fulltime somewhere down south.

Good idea. As I mentioned earlier in this topic:

We skipped the C30 stage and went from a C22>>C25>>C34.

We sailed our C25 all over, almost as far as we've sailed our C34. But we found the C30 to simply be a larger C25, while the C34 was a completely different boat, with an AFT head. We found that extremely important and useful ever since we bought the boat, and still love it. Reason? No one while sleeping has their head up against a bulkhead next to the head. Think about it.... Huge V berth cabin, too.

 

[bpratt1152]

I have a C30 1983 I just purchased. I love it! Prior to that I owned a Cal 27. She (your boat) is a fresh water boat that is a big plus. You have a trailer in this deal. That's good, however, as mentioned above, it will require a 3/4 to 1 ton 4X4 truck to haul it out. It is on the hard. This is the perfect time (prior to purchase) to have it surveyed . This will answer any question you have concerning the condition of the cabin around the mast step, the Catalina Smile, the sail condition, the condition of the fresh water system, the head/holding tank, the condition of the inboard, thru hulls, etc. You should ask in the negotiation to have the present owner pay for the survey (somewhere in the $450 range, if its in good condition then the survey will confirm it) then you will have a complete list of everything that is wrong/right with the boat. Very helpful knowledge in the negotiation and the decision to buy. Also it will help when dealing with the insurance company in establishing the value of the boat/trailer after you buy. She has been on the hard for 6 years, this has pros and cons. The cons were mentioned by other sailors above. The pros are it is the best time to have a survey, the best time to replace thru hulls, also it is dried out perfectly for any bottom work that might have to be done. Most older Catalina 30 s need blister work and/or probably bottom paint done.

 

[Kper]

Sadly, surveyors are non-existent here and the closest surveyors will not travel this far.