Just bought a 76' Oday 25. I had a friend who is an expert sailor look over the boat and he voiced some concern over what he called a "baby stay". It is a forestay located between the mast and the true forestay at bow (in front of the forward hatch). He indicated that it would probably, over time, damage the jib as it rolled across it during a tack. He suggested that perhaps I should remove it and install a shroud in front of the side shrouds (like most sailboats) to provide mast stability in the event of a forestay failure. I hope I've described this question accurately as I am still learning sailing jargon. Is this a concern? Is this factory installed or added by a owner for some reason? Any help is appreciated.....Gary
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Ben Bishop
Should be moveable
This sounds like a stay put on for redundancy in heavy weather, perhaps to hank on a storm jib. It has to be easily removed and attached to the mast in normal sailing conditions. Otherwise as you say, you could not bring the jib across as you tack. Unhook it and tie it to the mast, and remember it is there for the heavy conditions, it is nice to have.....
This sounds like a stay put on for redundancy in heavy weather, perhaps to hank on a storm jib. It has to be easily removed and attached to the mast in normal sailing conditions. Otherwise as you say, you could not bring the jib across as you tack. Unhook it and tie it to the mast, and remember it is there for the heavy conditions, it is nice to have.....
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Mike Whalen
Don't think its original
Gary, I too have a '76 O25. It has no baby stay. I suspect Ben is right that it was added for heavy weather. I would think it would be rough on the jib. Have you looked at the photo forum on this site? Later, Mike
Gary, I too have a '76 O25. It has no baby stay. I suspect Ben is right that it was added for heavy weather. I would think it would be rough on the jib. Have you looked at the photo forum on this site? Later, Mike
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Geof Tillotson
O'Day 25 Cutter Rig?
Sounds like an interesting modification to the boat. I also have a '76 O'day 25 and there is no "baby stay" up front. There are half a dozen 25's in my cruising area and none of them have this mod. Sounds to me that it was put there by a previous owner for either heavy weather (smaller foresail) or as an additional stay for some modified cutter type rig. I can't imagine hanging two foresails in most of the conditions I sail in, though a wing on wing foresail arrangement might be just the thing for a light air down hill leg in August. Would be easier to handle than a chute. How high up the mast does the "baby stay" go? The foredeck on my boat seems small to me, I'd hate to have one more piece of gear to have to avoid up there during anchor drills, mooring, docking etc. I'd probably remove it and stow it. Did the boat come with a sail that would fit that stay only? That might be a clue as to it's use. Geof s/v Day-O
Sounds like an interesting modification to the boat. I also have a '76 O'day 25 and there is no "baby stay" up front. There are half a dozen 25's in my cruising area and none of them have this mod. Sounds to me that it was put there by a previous owner for either heavy weather (smaller foresail) or as an additional stay for some modified cutter type rig. I can't imagine hanging two foresails in most of the conditions I sail in, though a wing on wing foresail arrangement might be just the thing for a light air down hill leg in August. Would be easier to handle than a chute. How high up the mast does the "baby stay" go? The foredeck on my boat seems small to me, I'd hate to have one more piece of gear to have to avoid up there during anchor drills, mooring, docking etc. I'd probably remove it and stow it. Did the boat come with a sail that would fit that stay only? That might be a clue as to it's use. Geof s/v Day-O
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Don Evans
Inner Forestay
Just a bit more information Gary. Where up on the mast is this inner stay attached? Is it up just below the regular forstay attachment at the top of the mast? Or is it lower on the mast, say 3/4 way up? If it is attached up at the top of the mast it is callde a Solent stay and could be a handy additional way of bringing the force from the wind closer to the centre of effort of the boat, reducing weatherhelm and heel of the boat. If you are doing lots of bashing to windward in heavier winds it can be a beneficial sail plan if it is mated to a heavy weather sail (smaller and thicker sailcloth). But if it is attached much lower on the mast and there is no additional backstays (running backstays) to oppose this imbalance in forward pull (forestay plus baby stay) then you are jeopardizing the mast at this unsupported portion of the mast where the inner stay is attached, and risking collapsing the mast. Moving the upper stay attachment of the inner forestay to the forestay attachment at the top of the mast solves this problem. In addition how is the lower attachment point, at the deck, supported below deck? I have the exact same boat and can't think where you would anchor a padeye to? It should be attached to a bulkhead just as your side stays are using a chainplate or an beam that spreads the loads across the underside of the deck. Perhaps it's attached at an anchor well bulkhead? At the very least it should have a substantial backing plate spread over the underside of the deck as the pressures on this padeye could be substantial, especially in a blow. How is it removeable at the deck padeye? As the other guys pointed out it should be easily removeable and brought back to the mast when not needed. The addition of this extra stay can be a benefit, if it has been set up right. Don
Just a bit more information Gary. Where up on the mast is this inner stay attached? Is it up just below the regular forstay attachment at the top of the mast? Or is it lower on the mast, say 3/4 way up? If it is attached up at the top of the mast it is callde a Solent stay and could be a handy additional way of bringing the force from the wind closer to the centre of effort of the boat, reducing weatherhelm and heel of the boat. If you are doing lots of bashing to windward in heavier winds it can be a beneficial sail plan if it is mated to a heavy weather sail (smaller and thicker sailcloth). But if it is attached much lower on the mast and there is no additional backstays (running backstays) to oppose this imbalance in forward pull (forestay plus baby stay) then you are jeopardizing the mast at this unsupported portion of the mast where the inner stay is attached, and risking collapsing the mast. Moving the upper stay attachment of the inner forestay to the forestay attachment at the top of the mast solves this problem. In addition how is the lower attachment point, at the deck, supported below deck? I have the exact same boat and can't think where you would anchor a padeye to? It should be attached to a bulkhead just as your side stays are using a chainplate or an beam that spreads the loads across the underside of the deck. Perhaps it's attached at an anchor well bulkhead? At the very least it should have a substantial backing plate spread over the underside of the deck as the pressures on this padeye could be substantial, especially in a blow. How is it removeable at the deck padeye? As the other guys pointed out it should be easily removeable and brought back to the mast when not needed. The addition of this extra stay can be a benefit, if it has been set up right. Don
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Gary
It goes half way up the mast
Wow. Thanks for the responses...very interesting info. The stay attaches half way up the mast, and attaches on the deck directly in front of the front hatch. Beneath the deck it is supported by a ~3"x5" teak block, very neatly done too....so I assumed it was factory installed. When pulling on the stay, it really flexes the mast. I have looked around this weekend on the docks and have yet to see another boat rigged like this. I asked the previous owner about it and she never gave it any thought, and also assumed it was a factory job. She did say that the jib sail drags across it with each tack. Should I remove it? Thanks
Wow. Thanks for the responses...very interesting info. The stay attaches half way up the mast, and attaches on the deck directly in front of the front hatch. Beneath the deck it is supported by a ~3"x5" teak block, very neatly done too....so I assumed it was factory installed. When pulling on the stay, it really flexes the mast. I have looked around this weekend on the docks and have yet to see another boat rigged like this. I asked the previous owner about it and she never gave it any thought, and also assumed it was a factory job. She did say that the jib sail drags across it with each tack. Should I remove it? Thanks
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Don Evans
I'd Remove It For Now
But with a future modification and some miles under your keel you can add it back in, but again I would change it to a Solent stay. As you have shown, since there is no backstay to counter the pull at the mounting point you can bend the mast fairly easily, and this might set up a fatigue at that point over time that can fold the mast. As Geof asked, what sail do you have that will fit this configuration? I think the addition of a small staysail for heavy weather sailing is good, but would want to move that stay higher up and closer to the masthead where it would be properly counterbalanced by the backstay. My gut is also telling me that a 3X5" teak block below deck is not enough of an anchoring point for the stress placed on that deck padeye. Has the staysail configuration been used much by the previous owner? Do you notice stress cracks developing around the deck padeye? This could be a clue to the stresses placed on the deck. Don
But with a future modification and some miles under your keel you can add it back in, but again I would change it to a Solent stay. As you have shown, since there is no backstay to counter the pull at the mounting point you can bend the mast fairly easily, and this might set up a fatigue at that point over time that can fold the mast. As Geof asked, what sail do you have that will fit this configuration? I think the addition of a small staysail for heavy weather sailing is good, but would want to move that stay higher up and closer to the masthead where it would be properly counterbalanced by the backstay. My gut is also telling me that a 3X5" teak block below deck is not enough of an anchoring point for the stress placed on that deck padeye. Has the staysail configuration been used much by the previous owner? Do you notice stress cracks developing around the deck padeye? This could be a clue to the stresses placed on the deck. Don
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Gary
maybe that explains the mystery sail
Don, I found a small sail in the cabin which I assumed to be a spinnaker. My friend said it was too small though. Perhaps this is some small sail for the "baby stay"??? There is no cracks on the deck where the stay attaches. Your worry about the lack of a rear counter support opposing the "baby stay" makes sense. Thus, I would like to just remove it completely. Thanks
Don, I found a small sail in the cabin which I assumed to be a spinnaker. My friend said it was too small though. Perhaps this is some small sail for the "baby stay"??? There is no cracks on the deck where the stay attaches. Your worry about the lack of a rear counter support opposing the "baby stay" makes sense. Thus, I would like to just remove it completely. Thanks
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Rob
Take it Off
You Don't need it. It is definetly after market. I sail an 1977 O'DAY 25 with high performance Pentex Sails in 15 knots and have never had my forestay fail. Good Luck!!!!
You Don't need it. It is definetly after market. I sail an 1977 O'DAY 25 with high performance Pentex Sails in 15 knots and have never had my forestay fail. Good Luck!!!!
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cee-bee
no such thing ...
as a confused oday owner, how about concerned? I have read about twin head stays for a purpose of downwind p&s head sails, easier to handle short handed than a spinnaker. should require a pole though. single handed, a smaller sail&no pole. sorta makes ya wonder. I'd yank it though before it yanks you overboard. that can be a busy area and could be a real trip.
as a confused oday owner, how about concerned? I have read about twin head stays for a purpose of downwind p&s head sails, easier to handle short handed than a spinnaker. should require a pole though. single handed, a smaller sail&no pole. sorta makes ya wonder. I'd yank it though before it yanks you overboard. that can be a busy area and could be a real trip.
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