Completely “Non Boat” related Electrical Issue…

[sailcapt340]

In a completely non-boating related topic, in advance of, what is sure to come, the dreaded power outages of winters wrath.

If I could just be indulged and offer a word of caution and praise.
Caution as to your choice of home battery maintenance chargers.
Praise to Maine Sail for his time, service to others, abilities and most valuable advice.

My home generator would not start today. The 2 - 12 volt batteries I have for it, might as well been maintained charged by 2 squirrels running on a tread mill.
I’ve always maintained them and many other batteries I use with the likes of…Battery tenders, Diehard, Harbor freight and others.
All the batteries gave me 12 + Volt readings and always started cars, antique cars, lawn tractors etc. But today, what I thought 1 year old batteries would do, just could not turn over my natural gas home generator.
I guess fortunately for me, I think…….it has a pull start cord.
I did get it running. My whole house is ready to go, if the the power does not.
My payment for thinking I had “good“ chargers on hand, is severely pulled chest muscles.
While this result probably won’t happen to us as boat owners, the aggravations of poor quality home battery maintenance chargers will always be present.

So my advice to all is read Maine Sail articles, stop buying chargers that just can’t do the job and get a Victron Blue Smart IP 65 as suggested by Maine Sail. There may be even better versions now.

Now I‘m looking for new generator batteries with higher cranking amps, as well as new boat batteries. Might as well do them all now.

 

[JamesG161]

I have a charged up "Jump Start" just for such a time.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Schumacher...-Jump-Starter-with-Digital-Display/1001022236

My whole house Propane Generator will recharge its normal battery in 15 minutes.

Good thing you checked yours.
Jim...

PS: Works on your boat too.

 

[JamesG161]

For your boat or auto tires to have compressed Air to inflate dingy, air mattress, tires, etc or blow out crap in small boat places try this one.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Schumacher-Electric-750-Amp-Car-Battery-Jump-Starter/1000577599

Jim...

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

might as well been maintained charged by 2 squirrels running on a tread mill.

Maybe a whole family of squirrels ?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

For your boat or auto tires to have compressed Air to inflate dingy, air mattress, tires, etc or blow out crap in small boat places try this one.

If you're looking to burn off those three extra helpings of turkey .............................

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Hard to understand where the problem is here - cold squirrels, cold batteries, cold electrons,......?

It's always easy to blame the charger

 

[JamesG161]

cold electrons

Best explanation so far.

Per Coulombs Law, the colder the electrons the faster the Amp flow is.

Thanks Don

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Best explanation so far.

Per Coulombs Law, the colder the electrons the faster the Amp flow is.

Thanks Don

After pondering the situation, I think you struck on the fundamental causal agent here - When it's cold, Coulomb's Law teaches us that the inverse proportion to the square of the distance between the battery and charger is repulsive for the same charge. But the effect is cumulative during only winter power outages, not summer ones.

Merry Xmas

 

[Tally Ho]

I have a20 KW GE generator that runs on natural gas…it has a 26R battery for starting the unit.

I assume it has some sort of alternator that puts some juice back in the battery during the 20 minute exercise time one day a week…

I do have the “cold weather kit”, which includes a hot plate for the battery to sit on…

We were expecting a big winter storm this week, so I was getting the snow blower moved into the garage and wanted to check the generator. It has a little remote control box that shows a status light. Batteries in the remote were dead . I put batteries In the remote and immediately, it started flashing red… 4 flashes means unit did not start…

It normally does the exercise routine on Tuesday’s but I am at work…so who knows how long it wasn’t starting. I checked the 12-volt battery… 11.6 volts. I didn’t even bother trying to charge it…just went to my local Autozone who had 26R batteries on the shelf…3 different “ qualities” or at least 3 different prices.

I bought the middle priced one (trying not to be a cheap ba$tard all the time) and hooked it up Monday night after work. I will have to keep track of this battery life…I know the battery was replaced at least once since I installed this generator 12 years ago.

Last night, the storm hit and at 2:00am this morning, the power went out…I. Below zero temperature…. But 10 seconds after the power went out, I heard the generator fire up.

Must be living right.

Greg

 

[SycloneDriver]

I have had very good luck with Battery Tender brand units on my portable generators at work. I prefer the "Battery Tender Plus" because it is temperature compensated. Having said that I will be purchasing some Victon units to try.

 

[jaysweet]

For the first time in 5 years, our whole-house generator didn't start on Friday when we had a blackout. As someone mentioned, it does 20 minutes of run-time every Saturday, and it ran the previous weekend. I suspected the battery, so I pulled it out and took it to buy a new one. There was a guy at the auto parts store who tested it, though. He said he had worked on generators for 35 years, and said "that battery is in perfect condition: It would start any generator". So I did some reading yesterday. Reason #2 on some website for "why your generator won't start" was low oil. I had checked this, and it was a bit low, but it was freezing out, so I guess I didn't do a very good job: just noticed some oil on the bottom of the dip stick.

Anyway, I topped off the oil, reinstalled the battery and it started right up. We went through 14 hours of no power for no reason other than my poor maintenance.

 

[sailcapt340]

Low oil will definitely cause the failure to start or a shut down. Mine also detects Carbon Monoxide and unburnt fuel and stops it dead. I‘m glad for you, an easy fix and you‘re up and running.
As for me, I’m still in the new battery market and reliable charging, hopefully one of these smaller batteries with larger cold cranking amps as well.

 

[Tally Ho]

Low oil will definitely cause the failure to start or a shut down. Mine also detects Carbon Monoxide and unburnt fuel and stops it dead. I‘m glad for you, an easy fix and you‘re up and running.
As for me, I’m still in the new battery market and reliable charging, hopefully one of these smaller batteries with larger cold cranking amps as well.

What kind of generator is it (and what size)? I thought my 20kw home generator was one of the biggest residential ones for sale at the time. 2 12-volt batteries to start it seems really “Large”. My Yanmar 2GM20F starts with a single group 27 12-volt FLA battery.

How about 2 6-volt GC batteries? That is what I am running in my boat currently.


Greg

 

[sailcapt340]

It‘s a 13K Champion. I was unclear, I have 2 - 12 volt batteries for it. It only use one at a time. Neither have or had the cranking ability to turn it over. I blame it on poor quality chargers giving me false hope they are up to par.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Tally Ho]

It‘s a 13K Champion. I was unclear, I have 2 - 12 volt batteries for it. It only use one at a time. Neither have or had the cranking ability to turn it over. I blame it on poor quality chargers giving me false hope they are up to par.
Sorry for the confusion.

Ah, gotcha.

I don’t recall how old my 26R was that I replaced last week. I think this is the second time I replaced it in ~15 years. But I think mine must recharge during the weekly exercise period, or when running due to an outage.

I hope you find a solution.

Greg

 

[dLj]

It‘s a 13K Champion. I was unclear, I have 2 - 12 volt batteries for it. It only use one at a time. Neither have or had the cranking ability to turn it over. I blame it on poor quality chargers giving me false hope they are up to par.
Sorry for the confusion.

It is unclear to me what kind of charger you were using for battery maintenance prior to the not starting? How did you have it set up? What was the float voltage being applied? Typically stationary back up batteries will have a charger that will apply a float charge to them to keep them charged up. Then you should do an equalization step on them about once a year. When used, they are typically charged through a circuit on the generator.

I personally would use flooded lead acid batteries in your home generator, I wouldn't go through the expense of another battery technology in your case.

There is really no need to pay for the marine type charging system in a home system like you have. There are very inexpensive options that should work very well. I think you need to look carefully at what your setup was that did not work. But hey, it's your money and your peace of mind...

dj

 

[sailcapt340]

I agree, in my case its the charger. Both batteries (Sealed Lead Acid type) said 12.89 V but just didn‘t have the cranking amps to turn the engine over. One was on my Battery Tender on the shelf, the other on the generator just sitting.
Once running the generator does charge the battery and all is fine. I can shut it all down and then start it back up hours later.
Its the prolonged nonuse of these systems that are the issue. In my case about 5 weeks. Fuel source is natural gas. Line is sized for the distance from the meter to the unit. So thats not the issue.
As long as there are batteries and we use them…….

 

[dLj]

I agree, in my case its the charger. Both batteries (Sealed Lead Acid type) said 12.89 V but just didn‘t have the cranking amps to turn the engine over. One was on my Battery Tender on the shelf, the other on the generator just sitting.
Once running the generator does charge the battery and all is fine. I can shut it all down and then start it back up hours later.
Its the prolonged nonuse of these systems that are the issue. In my case about 5 weeks. Fuel source is natural gas. Line is sized for the distance from the meter to the unit. So thats not the issue.
As long as there are batteries and we use them…….

Something isn't adding up here.

Both batteries had the exact same voltage when you looked? 12.89 V is a more than fully charged battery. Sealed lead acid type sounds like a car battery, so that would mean they are flooded lead acid batteries - the sealed is the case, not the battery chemistry. 12.89 is not a correct float voltage.

To check standing voltage on a battery, you need to have the battery standing for about 24 hours with no charger or loads connected to get an accurate reading. 5 weeks is nothing to let a good battery sit with no loads and no charging and still be able to start an engine.

All the above just indicates that we haven't gotten to the bottom of the problem yet.

dj

 

[Jacktar]

another unrelated to boats and batteries but to cold.... we had three days of below freezing temp here in fla panhandle, my washer is in utility room insulated but no heat. Tried to do load , machine would not load water as first step. Turns out water hoses frozen so inlet valve is too and wont work. Three hours of space heater in room near washer and washer now starts normally. So maybe battery issues are more cold related than battery tender related. Just saying!

 

[Tater]

I normally stay in my lane with the small boat crew. I'll add my two cents on this one.

The best way I know to maintain a battery is by "floating" it with a regulated source. In my case, being a HAM, I use a regulated analog power supply. The supply powers several things but the voltage at the battery is kept a 13VDC. The battery is used for marine use and will be fast charged, or "equalized", from time to time. I retire in a month, so I'll do this more often.

I work in TV broadcasting and also do the day-to-day upkeep on large generators. 3 diesel and one natural gas. Having done this for many years, I have learned that dedicated generators are a maintenance pit. As some of you have said, whole house generators will fail when they are needed most. Here in my part of the country, that storm that gets the power will also surge the automatic start circuits. I will never have a generator in standby at my home. I have a 5K and will upsize when the time comes but it will be portable.