Combi refurbishment....

Oct 30, 2019
114
Hi all, I have been working on the combi and have a few notes that may be helpful to others...
Removal.
I had first bought a kit containing the various oil seals, O rings and bearing from Steve Birch and proceeded to follow his instruction sheet.

The instructions are very good and most things went according to plan. Couple of things....
Item 13 says to rotate the flywheel to undo the clamp nut. When I did this the flywheel nut came undone instead! I ended up having to tighten the flywheel nut quite a lot and then trying again as instructed. Worked fine the second time.
Item 14 says use "fulsome" blows on the end of the prop boss - I had to look up what "fulsome" means then gave it a smart crack with a wooden mallet - worked a treat!
Item 16 - removing the key and clamp rings - BE CAREFUL! I managed to drop one of the clamp rings and I am now unsure which way round it goes on re-fitting!!!! If anyone knows please advise!

Steve supplies a few extra seals and O rings - I could not work out were they all fitted until I rang him and he said they were just extras!

The only real issue was removal of a large oil seal at the rear of the engine (size 65mm int, 100 ext, 10 width).... it is quite far in and took a bit of messing with a screwdriver to get it out. I was worried about damaging the housing but when I got the correct angle on the screwdriver it levered out quite easily.... BE CAREFUL when fitting the new one - I managed to get the lip of the seal to roll over on itself and I had to take it out again and damaged it in the process! I would normally use the old seal to push in the new one square but you can't get at it! Any tips on a "safe " way to insert the new replacement when it arrives? (all the seals are standard sizes and are widely available....the smaller ones are 22mm, 40 mm, 7mm, and 24mm 35mm, 7 mm...)

The prop shaft came out easily and the stern bearing was badly worn... maybe 2mm +so I have asked Steve to send me a new Vesconite replacement ( I think he used to use Nyoil but Vesconite is apparently better in a submerged environment) The stern gland, with its own little oil reservoir, seemed in good order but I shall replace the seals and white metal bearings anyway.

The control tube had been replaced recently ( I found the old one in the boat). The old one showed VERY bad wear in the area of the stern bearing... loads of metal had worn away from the shaft ... not sure how this could happen because the housing has a tufnol? bush... weird. Anyway the new one is fine.

A good place for seals and bearings is Simply Bearings Ltd ~ Oil Seals SKF FAG TIMKEN KOYO NTN NKE TRULOC Needle Rollers Taper Rollers Rod Ends Oil Filled Bushes Loose Balls O Rings Grease Plain Thrust.... they have a wide selection and even old imperial sizes.

Replacing the O rings in the combi unit was a bit of a pain - they are quite hard to get at but a small screwdriver eventually aided removal.

Hope my experiences may be helpful... I shall let you know how the replacement goes. If anyone has details of exactly how the clamp rings should be refitted I would appreciate it - failing that I have a 50/50 chance of getting it right...... by the way - what are they for?

I have posted some pics at farmer boy if anyone is interested.

The new cushions were done by a nice chap in Stockport UK for £275 including new high density foam!!!! a bargain!

You will also see that I am struggling to remove the last bit of antifoul. I used caustic soda to remove all of the outer layers but the final base layer will not budge!! I may sand it and use a few layers of primicon... its a pity because I wanted to apply a layer of 'anti osmosis" stuff - Gelshield or similar but I am told ALL antifoul has to be removed.. this stuff will not come off withount hours of hard scarping so I may have to forget the Gelshield route!

Anyway - back to work!

John
 
Oct 30, 2011
221
Hi all, just an update... you may recall that I managed to damage the oil seal that sits at the back of the MD6 engine - next to the combi. It has been a bit of a pig to successfully insert the new one! There is not much space to work and I could not get an even pressure on the new seal to push it all the way in. I ended up bolting the combi back on and that then pressed the seal home. I used the old seal as a spacer and used a couple of longer bolts to get it started. Took a bit of time but all is now well.

The stainless tube that actuates the prop "pitch" was a bit worn at the stern bearing (not too bad). A local machine shop assures me that it can be "built up" again (not sure how they do it - electroplating probably?) and then machined true. He is checking if it will be suitable for a marine environment - will let you know how it goes!

I have managed to epoxy in place some marine ply backing plates for the new Marelon thruhulls. The originals (from new) were just gate valves - like those used for household plumbing! When I removed them I was shocked at how brittle they were. They snapped like carrots and I have been told that they were brass - not sure if all Vegas were all fitted with similar seacocks but maybe worth checking.

John

some pics are at farmer boy
 

n4lbl

.
Oct 7, 2008
307
My only gate valves are for the intake to the head and for the intake to
the sink. It strikes me as odd that someone would only change some
thru-hull valves. Those are my highest priority projects.

Alan
Minke #2505
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi John.

What exactly "snapped like carrots"?

Was this part brass? Or s/s?

And how do you know that they were the originals?I think I read somewhere that brass changes colour over time and that
this is a sign of imminent failure...?

Any metallurgists in the house?

Thanks,

John V1447 Breakaway
 
Jan 31, 2009
122
Hi John - shortly after purchasing Jenavive in 1983, I discovered that the blades of my Combi prop were so affected by electrolsis that one snapped in half. The metal had a lighter colour and sounded dull when struck by something metallic. I assumed that wasting anodes had not been properly installed.

My through hull fittings were I believe the original bronze gate valves. I have changed these within the last ten years and was amazed at good condition of them with no sign of corrosion whatso ever. I have never bonded them to the anode on the hull but my boat lives on a swinging mooring with no shore power and I don't leave my batteries switched on when I am not present, so there is very little chance of stray electrical currents affecting the fittings.

Having kept the old fittings in my shed I believe they are of superior materials compared to those you find in the average chandlers today. I sometimes wonder why I changed them.

Mike
________________________________
From: John Kinsella John.Kinsella@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 9:55
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Combi refurbishment....



Hi John.

What exactly "snapped like carrots"?

Was this part brass? Or s/s?

And how do you know that they were the originals?

I think I read somewhere that brass changes colour over time and that
this is a sign of imminent failure...?

Any metallurgists in the house?

Thanks,

John V1447 Breakaway
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Thanks Mike.

That is what I would have expected.

The build quality of the Vega is (I am told) generally excellent..

John
 
Oct 30, 2011
221
I am really guessing that they were original... based on condition
and the bit of boat history I have. The metal (brass?) was a pinky
colour and when I had the wrench on to remove them they just snapped
off.... also I found a standard steel jubilee clip holding the water
fill hose on - needless to say it just crumbled away - and that was an
original fitting to!
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Yeah,
I have seen references to a "pinky" colour as a danger signal elsewhere..

I'll have a look next time I'm on the boat..

Thanks

John
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Pinky bronze is an alloy of copper and tin (and some other stuff, incl.
silicon). The tin goes away by electrolysis, owing perhaps to depletion of a
sacrificial zinc, leaving the reddish copper. A bad sign indeed, in any
critical fitting.



I am experimenting with titanium jubilee clips (aka hose clamps) in certain
hard to inspect and critical uses, including the stern tube. Said to be
exceedingly resistant to corrosion. One 3 inch clip was about $10.00.
 
Dec 14, 2013
50
Albin Marin Vega 27 Venice
Hello Mike and John,

Last year I purchased the Vega 3339 in Holland and I\'m preparing her for a 6 month sailing around Europe, the Azores and the Mediterranean.
The boat was in very good conditions but, as a matter of safety, I have upgraded some parts.

I removed the original thru-hulls and valves. After 32 years they were still in very good conditions, the gate valves working smoothly, and I had to grind the external part of the thru-hull to be able to remove them. They appeared still strong and the metal didn\'t look corroded at all. But the boat, for the last 15 years has been kept on fresh waters.

On the other side, I noticed the same problem on the Combi prop blades, quite corroded but still working. There was no zinc anode. I have purchased a second hand Combi prop. My question to Mike: is it possible to remove and replace the prop without dismantling the entire Combi system? Is it a big job?

Thanks,
marco




________________________________
Da: MICHAEL FREEMAN <mikeandv@...>
A: "AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com" <AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com>
Inviato: Giovedì 23 Febbraio 2012 11:33
Oggetto: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Combi refurbishment....



Hi John - shortly after purchasing Jenavive in 1983, I discovered that the blades of my Combi prop were so affected by electrolsis that one snapped in half. The metal had a lighter colour and sounded dull when struck by something metallic. I assumed that wasting anodes had not been properly installed.

My through hull fittings were I believe the original bronze gate valves. I have changed these within the last ten years and was amazed at good condition of them with no sign of corrosion whatso ever. I have never bonded them to the anode on the hull but my boat lives on a swinging mooring with no shore power and I don\'t leave my batteries switched on when I am not present, so there is very little chance of stray electrical currents affecting the fittings.

Having kept the old fittings in my shed I believe they are of superior materials compared to those you find in the average chandlers today. I sometimes wonder why I changed them.

Mike

________________________________
From: John Kinsella <John.Kinsella@...>
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 9:55
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Combi refurbishment....



Hi John.

What exactly "snapped like carrots"?

Was this part brass? Or s/s?

And how do you know that they were the originals?

I think I read somewhere that brass changes colour over time and that
this is a sign of imminent failure...?

Any metallurgists in the house?

Thanks,

John V1447 Breakaway
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi Marco & all.
My Vega has also been on fresh water for 15 years....

The gate valves work smoothly too.

I am annoyed with myself for not doing an external inspection of the
through hull fitting when boat was ashore.

I'll examine the sea cocks this weekend..John
 
Jan 31, 2009
122
Hello Marco - Yes you should be able to remove the old blades and replace without disassembling the whole combi. You remove the end nut on the boss and undo the four hex bolts sunk in the the end and the assembly comes apart the assembly should be full of grease so it\'s a bit messy you need to be careful to assemble the replacements in the same teeth of the control tube mechanism.
It\'s so long since I\'ve had my combi (13 years) so I may have missed something but no doubt someone with more up to date knowledge will correct me if I am wrong..
Good luck
Mike



________________________________
From: Marco Baldan <africanmarco@...>
To: "AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com" <AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 15:27
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Combi refurbishment....

Hello Mike and John,

Last year I purchased the Vega 3339 in Holland and I\'m preparing her for a 6 month sailing around Europe, the Azores and the Mediterranean.
The boat was in very good conditions but, as a matter of safety, I have upgraded some parts.

I removed the original thru-hulls and valves. After 32 years they were still in very good conditions, the gate valves working smoothly, and I had to grind the external part of the thru-hull to be able to remove them. They appeared still strong and the metal didn\'t look corroded at all. But the boat, for the last 15 years has been kept on fresh waters.

On the other side, I noticed the same problem on the Combi prop blades, quite corroded but still working. There was no zinc anode. I have purchased a second hand Combi prop. My question to Mike: is it possible to remove and replace the prop without dismantling the entire Combi system? Is it a big job?

Thanks,
marco




________________________________
Da: MICHAEL FREEMAN <mikeandv@...>
A: "AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com" <AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com>
Inviato: Giovedì 23 Febbraio 2012 11:33
Oggetto: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Combi refurbishment....



Hi John - shortly after purchasing Jenavive in 1983, I discovered that the blades of my Combi prop were so affected by electrolsis that one snapped in half. The metal had a lighter colour and sounded dull when struck by something metallic. I assumed that wasting anodes had not been properly installed.

My through hull fittings were I believe the original bronze gate valves. I have changed these within the last ten years and was amazed at good condition of them with no sign of corrosion whatso ever. I have never bonded them to the anode on the hull but my boat lives on a swinging mooring with no shore power and I don\'t leave my batteries switched on when I am not present, so there is very little chance of stray electrical currents affecting the fittings.

Having kept the old fittings in my shed I believe they are of superior materials compared to those you find in the average chandlers today. I sometimes wonder why I changed them.

Mike

________________________________
From: John Kinsella <John.Kinsella@...>
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2012, 9:55
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Combi refurbishment....



Hi John.

What exactly "snapped like carrots"?

Was this part brass? Or s/s?

And how do you know that they were the originals?

I think I read somewhere that brass changes colour over time and that
this is a sign of imminent failure...?

Any metallurgists in the house?

Thanks,

John V1447 Breakaway
 

lau_62

.
Mar 24, 2008
13
Take a look here, most of the marks is shown, neutral mark on prop and linkage / cam marks.


Remember extra gloves and rags *S*
And google is your your friend for translation.

Lau V-3358 - Röde Orm