Columbia 23T as a first real sailboat?

[Pete]

Hello all,
Yes I am a newbie, but I can at least sail...years on a windsurfer and a lot of time in a Lido 14, I need a real sailboat. I need some advice for a trailerable sailboat. Plenty of room in my yard to keep it.
I am looking at Catalina 22's first of all, but most are well worn and not used much very thrashed. Stress cracks, dirty and wasted interiors...I can tell if the sails, mast, boom and rigging is good I am an excellent mechanic.
But I found an excellent 1975-6 Columbia 23T in beautiful shape, hull and deck hardly a scratch no stress cracks at all, wonderful interior amazing shape and the boat is reasonable. Trailer is a little rusty but I can fix it.
My questions...Is this a good sailer? good quality? fast and fun? any help would be appreciated. Clean it up, lube, check the ropes and rigging drop it in the water and go, no weeks of restoration...
Thanks
Pete San Diego, CA

 

[Timm R 25 Oday]

Not the whole picture

What kind of keel does it have?

What is the draft?

Does the trailer ned a tongue extension to launch?

Is your tow vehicle up to it?

Take the weight of the boat and add 30% for the trailer and all the other things you threw into the boat.

Is there a system in place for stepping the mast?

I don't the sailing characteristics of the Columbia. Most twenty foot keel
boats make very good steeping stones.

 

[George]

Catalina 22

For a first sailboat, I'd go with a more mainstream choice - You'll eventually want to step up and the C22 will be easier to sell.

There have been over 15,000 Catalina 22's sold and there is a well developed owners support group for this boat while the Columbia 22 is less well known because its' production run was just a little over 1500.

You'll find negatives on both boats, but in my mind if you are looking for a day sailer most of the complaints about either boat of this vintage are minor.

A quick check will find many Catalina 22s for sale if you are willing to look a little harder and maybe drive a little.

 

[porsche]

my first

My first sailboat over 20ft was a 1969 Islander23, sailed it just over a year and found a great deal on a catalina 22 wing keel. Until I move to the coast and get a slip I will stick to the cat 22 we love it. Plenty of room inside and out, a proven design, handles great, solid boat. Alan

 

[BobM]

Shoal Draft

From what I have found online the 23T draws just more than 1 foot in a long fixed keel with fairly light ballast (the higher up ballast is the more you need). To be frank, that is not a very good set up if upwind performance is a concern and if you plan to sail on the ocean, even in protected waters, I think you may find it a fairly frustrating boat to own long-term if performance is a goal. However, any boat in good condition at a reasonable price is a good first boat in my opinion. If you plan to dry sail her (i.e. launch her every time you use her and raise / lower her mast) I suggest you consider going slightly smaller rather than larger or to at least really evaluate this issue. The number of times you sail per year will likely end up being strongly dependent on how much of a PITA (pain in the...) it is to get the mast up and down.

I kept my boat on a mooring and bought a cheap dinghy I could launch easily from my pick-up. I also joined a local (but inexpensive) yacht club to gain access to their launch service.

Another thought is that focusing the quality / condition of the interior of a boat this small tends to be less important as most are day sailed.

So I guess what I am saying it...does the boat fit your needs? The best advice I can give you is to take of the rose colored glasses you might have on and to sit down with a sheet of clean white paper and a writing implement. Write down what you are looking for out of sailing and out of the boat you would need to do that and what features you prefer. I'll warn you that you often can't figure out the later until you look at enough different boats to get a handle on it.
Then rank things by importance and see what you can live with or without. I did this to score various boats and it made me consider makes/models that I hadn't been thinking about. I eventually bought one of those boats.

The big trade off I see for you is price vs. performance. I suggest you consider what your goals are for sailing. In my case, I bought a first boat that wasn't a performance boat based on price and sailed it for three years then upgraded. If I hadn't won that boat on ebay for $1000 I likely wouldn't have spent the last three years on the water or be sailing my new (to me) 30 footer from CT to Boston next weekend. I don't know if I could have lived with that decision. I pretty much waited long enough (nearly 20 years) to indulge my sailing bug as it was.

 

[Rick D]

Nice Boat

Good quality for the era. Pointing ability may be questionable as pointed out, but a reasonable compromise for trailerable ability. The good news is that you can probably sell her for what you pay for her so the risk isn't great. And, for that age, condition is very important IMHO, RD

 

[Pete]

Hmmm good advice

Well thanks all..
I have looked at several Catalina 22's and am considering one that needs some clean up work for a great price, trailer is in good shape, hull is excellent, sails and boom/mast are good, I can fix anything else.
But the Columbia 23T is in way better shape than anything else I have seen and at $1,500.00 on the trailer with a 6hp evinrude it is tempting.
You all may disagree but I cannot believe how much sailboat you can buy for so little money. Power boats have gotten so expensive, I have friends that have 100-125K in their deck boats.
Yes I know some of the large sailboats are very expensive but these deck boats are 23-28 feet with no overnight accomodations.
1000-5000 for a nice sailboat?? wow I have been on the wrong side of boating!
The Columbia 23T Keel drafts at 1'-9" I believe, (see their website www.columbia-yachts.com)fixed heavy ballasted and only hangs down about 6-8" more than the Catalina 22 swing keel when fully cranked up. It is gradually sloped from the front to the middle of the keel, I think it is beachable if the angle of the beach is ok.
I have a 2000 Dodge 4x4 Diesel 2500 CC Cummins diesel, launching this will be a snap, my other boat(03 24'Cheetah Fast Cat deck boat) weighs 7000lbs on the trailer.
But I am still leaning to the Catalina 22's. I have driven 135 miles (one way) to see one of them. I can make my own mast lifting system if I need it.
Thanks everyone...
Pete

 

[Manny]

A good friend of mine has one

It's his first boat, and ironically because of it I became a boat owner myself (long story!). Anyway, I've been out on it with him a few times, even a few miles out in the ocean. That is one of the best sails I ever had. The cockpit has a ton of room, more than my 27'. The interior has no headroom but decent space. My friend sleeps comfortably in it and he is over six feet tall. Surprisingly it is not too tender and it sails really nice. Pointing is an issue with the shoal keel but you have to work at running aground. He has a 6 hp four stroke on the back and it is more power than necessary. Honestly, the only thing I don't like about his boat is the lack of lifelines.
Stepping the mast is pretty easy for two people of average strength. First time it took us an hour since neither one of us had ever done it before and we didn't any reference (and we couldn't find all the parts). Next time it took 15 minutes!
He tows it with a Land Rover Discovery without too much trouble but his trailer doesn't have brakes. After a pretty hairy incident on the Atlantic City Expressway I would highly recommend brakes on the trailer.
I'd have to say I would have been happy to have the Columbia as my first boat.

Manny

 

[Pete]

Sailing performance is important to me

Thank you Manny,
It is great to find someone experienced with this Columbia 23T. The cockpit is nice, below deck is also very nice and pretty roomy, you should see the condition of this Columbia 23, amazing for a 74-75 any kind of boat. The trailer needs some work though, as I said before I don't think there is a scratch on the deck or hull anywhere. Beautiful interior, all original too.
I guess I am a little preformance oriented...I want to sail in the ocean and go to Catalina Island. Trailer it to Dana Point (70 miles) launch and then it is 28 miles to Catalina...sounds doable sail and motor a little for a few days, stay at a local hotel and sleep in the boat also. I have a 13yr old daughter and we love to explore, strap down or tow a kayak and paddle around...lots to see there. My wife may stay home!! I will get a GPS and VHF radio if I go. Ocean performance and safety would be affected by the shallow keel on the Columbia, that is very important. Interiors on used Catalina 22's are easily repaired and upgraded, expecially for a low starting price. The hull condition/integrity is the most important thing to me. I found an inexpensive Catalina 22 with a great deck, hull and trailer amazing for a 70's boat.
Thanks to everyone for the opinions and the truth about the shallow keels, this is the info I was looking for here, experienced and knollegable opinions. So I am wrighting a list of must haves as was suggested I alway do this. I welcome any other comments.
Pete

 

[charlesb200]

Pete -
I have a '75 Columbia 23-T. Not my first sailboat (Sea Snark was first), but second. Have had it since '77. It is an almost 'beachable' boat, a very important point when we were young and had kids - they loved the sail, but always looked forward to playing on the beach. As noted, it is not a ' highperformance' boat in that it doesn't point very high, but when your main goal is to have a good time on the water, high performance is not the highest factor to consider. It is a comfortable sailer, with high coamings to support your back while sailing, long cockpit for occasional naps or nighttime sleeping arrangements. Cabin has sitting headroom, and depending on other amenities (head, sink, stove), it makes a good home for the weekend overnight sailor. We don't trailer, as we have a large bay that gives us plenty of area to gunkhole. Thin water makes the 1' 11" draft almost perfect for our area. While we have run aground (show me a sailor that has not!), it is easy to refloat (you can push it off if you have to).

While I would like to have a larger boat that has standing headroom, a boat that large increases everything - size rigging, weight of mast(you can't step a mast on a 30' boat with 2 people), sails are not as easy to handle, sails provide much more force/effort to set correctly, slip rents go up, and the list goes on and on...

I think the Columbia 23-T is a great boat - first or only

 

[Barnacle Bill]

The Columbia 23T is a very good boat. Built well and has a good amount of usable interior space for her size. Good size cockpit too. Her negative would be the shoal keel which does not have a centerboard so there will be some compromise to windward performance, but reaching or running will be fun. The boat is not built any more so there will be no manufacturer support, but I cannot imagine anything that can go wrong with her than can't be fixed anyway. For example, you can still get a new mast or boom, if needed, same with sails. Fiberglass can be repaired. Much of the hardware used on the boat can still be purchased possibly as original or certainly someone makes something that will work, etc. It is a great first sailboat.

 

[Red Dragon]

Columbia 23

OK, before I type for a lengthy period I want to make sure that this'll post.

 

[Red Dragon]

Columbia 23

That's why I love this site, everyone's replies or insight and intelligent. Intelligence and passion are what sets sailors apart from everyone else on the water.
Many posts on trailor sailors speak of the bennefit on not having to keep your boat at a marina, and being about to travel to different locations with your sailboat. But, I learned early on (with an 18' fishing boat) that to get the most out of your boat, especially in the Northern waters, you have to keep it on the water. I've found people willing to rent slips on a cannal rather than in a marina, to save costs. And, there is the winter out-haul and storage that I still save on.
Anyhow, I purchased a Catalina 22 last spring and I love it. Finally stepping up to a real sailboat after owning a 12' & 13 footer. My one complaint, having a swing-keel, is that the keel is a bit light for sailing on Lake Erie. But, as acknowledged by many, thus is the trade-off of a trailor sailor. Also, as mentioned, sailboats seem to hold up remarkably well (if cared for). Mines an '88 and she looks great. As said, there were many of these produced, so a little hunting should allow you to find a nice one (I had driven 180 miles to pick mine up).
My Father had owned a Columbia T23 when I was a boy. He gave up sailing long ago, so, he is not available at this site for comment. The Columbia seemed a little more capable, and had a slightly bigger cabin, from what I recall. My Father said it didn't turn well, especially across the wind (jybing ?). But, with its long heel, it tracked well. I tend to believe that its draft is deeper than 1'8", as we had run aground on more than one occasion (docking it at the far end of a swamp did not help).
I'm sure you'll be happy with either (although, you've likely purchased one by now). I do like having the adjustability of a swing heel. And, Catalina 22's are certainly affordable.