I have been looking through the archives for info on where to refill CNG tanks in Ontario Canada (preferably in/near Kingston) but have struck out. Anyone out there know of some locations? Also, I am a bit confused. I recently bought a H35.5 which came with two tanks. I have read various posts about tank exchange and not really owning the tanks etc. How do I tell if the tanks I have are mine? I have also seen mention of adapters for filling from car service stations. Anyone have any information on this? What kind of fittings, suppliers, ... How well are theese things accepted? I can just picture the look on the pump jockey's face when I show up with a tank and some sort of adapter. Thanks 'somewhat hungry as I have no more CNG'
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Contact a local welding supply house
I would contact a local welding equipment supplier and discuss your concerns. They will probably be able to assist and direct towards a good course of action, they would alsso sell adaptor for different types of tanks etc. You might also try a moble home outfit I am sure some of those guys use CNG stoves.
I would contact a local welding equipment supplier and discuss your concerns. They will probably be able to assist and direct towards a good course of action, they would alsso sell adaptor for different types of tanks etc. You might also try a moble home outfit I am sure some of those guys use CNG stoves.
NADA, ZILCH, ZIPPO...
CNG is near impossible to find outside of the US, and difficult inside. My local Harbor Marine retailer (425/259-3285) in Everett, WA has tank exchange service for around $30. I think that is why so many of the CNG users (what few are left) are converting to propane. Bellingham, WA may have the service, too. Check with Redden Marine Supply at 360/733-0250. Good luck. Terry
CNG is near impossible to find outside of the US, and difficult inside. My local Harbor Marine retailer (425/259-3285) in Everett, WA has tank exchange service for around $30. I think that is why so many of the CNG users (what few are left) are converting to propane. Bellingham, WA may have the service, too. Check with Redden Marine Supply at 360/733-0250. Good luck. Terry
Propane conversion
I can still get CNG in Miami, but not in the Bahamas. For this reason I plan to convert to propane. Hunter can supply a drop-in fiberglass bin for a propane tank in the aft lasarette on my P42, and I assume other models as well. Then I will have to drill a through-hull drain for the bin, change the stove elements and lines, and add a shut-off solenoid. If you plan to stick with CNG, try to get your hands on a few spare tanks, once you figure out where to fill them. CNG was an excellent safety choice for marine use, unfortunately it has gone the way on Betamax.
I can still get CNG in Miami, but not in the Bahamas. For this reason I plan to convert to propane. Hunter can supply a drop-in fiberglass bin for a propane tank in the aft lasarette on my P42, and I assume other models as well. Then I will have to drill a through-hull drain for the bin, change the stove elements and lines, and add a shut-off solenoid. If you plan to stick with CNG, try to get your hands on a few spare tanks, once you figure out where to fill them. CNG was an excellent safety choice for marine use, unfortunately it has gone the way on Betamax.
Maybe this will help
I did a search on Google, and found a place that sells natural gas for vehicles in Kingston. Listed below is the website with their address. You might contact them to see if they can help. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
I did a search on Google, and found a place that sells natural gas for vehicles in Kingston. Listed below is the website with their address. You might contact them to see if they can help. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
CNG refills
You might try Corp Brothers in Providence, RI. They will refill your tank or sell you a new full tank. 800.234.1286 http://corpbrothers.com I used them when my marina was unable to get my tanks refilled. Tanks are boxed and shipped UPS.
You might try Corp Brothers in Providence, RI. They will refill your tank or sell you a new full tank. 800.234.1286 http://corpbrothers.com I used them when my marina was unable to get my tanks refilled. Tanks are boxed and shipped UPS.
Adapter ? Yes with caution....
Just to let you know I have put together an adapter and use it regularly as we live aboard and my wife loves to cook. I fill a tank about every six weeks for the amazing cost of $0.70, yes 70 cents, at a local gas station. In MD we have about 5 locations to fuel CNG vehicles so I started looking for the fittings to make the adapter up. First and foremost is the safety issue; our boat tanks are rated at 2400psi service pressure, the fill pressure at the station is set at 3000psi for the vehicle tanks. Our bottles also have a safety vent on the valve that I hope works if required. The adapter consists of the bottle fitting, a tee with the pressure gage, a needle valve to regulate flow, a second tee with a valve to vent off, and the all-important fill fitting for the pump connector. All fittings are rated at 4000psi or more. Total cost about $100. I am currently sourcing new 3000psi bottles approximate cost $175, not bad considering the possibility of death during a refill and they will hold more too. As far as the attendant, our stations are self serve and the only strange looks I get are because I can only get 70 cents in and it's full. Believe me I always shut it off at 2400 psi. I'll put together a list of parts and sources if you are interested. I love CNG, as alcohol was such a bummer on the old boat.
Just to let you know I have put together an adapter and use it regularly as we live aboard and my wife loves to cook. I fill a tank about every six weeks for the amazing cost of $0.70, yes 70 cents, at a local gas station. In MD we have about 5 locations to fuel CNG vehicles so I started looking for the fittings to make the adapter up. First and foremost is the safety issue; our boat tanks are rated at 2400psi service pressure, the fill pressure at the station is set at 3000psi for the vehicle tanks. Our bottles also have a safety vent on the valve that I hope works if required. The adapter consists of the bottle fitting, a tee with the pressure gage, a needle valve to regulate flow, a second tee with a valve to vent off, and the all-important fill fitting for the pump connector. All fittings are rated at 4000psi or more. Total cost about $100. I am currently sourcing new 3000psi bottles approximate cost $175, not bad considering the possibility of death during a refill and they will hold more too. As far as the attendant, our stations are self serve and the only strange looks I get are because I can only get 70 cents in and it's full. Believe me I always shut it off at 2400 psi. I'll put together a list of parts and sources if you are interested. I love CNG, as alcohol was such a bummer on the old boat.
Don, please post parts
Don, Please do post a parts and source list. Any references to applicable web sites would be very useful. Are the 3000 psi bottles identical to the ones you have ? What is their primary application, and where do you get them ? Do they come with the same valve connectors (i.e. are they interchangeable) ? Thanks
Don, Please do post a parts and source list. Any references to applicable web sites would be very useful. Are the 3000 psi bottles identical to the ones you have ? What is their primary application, and where do you get them ? Do they come with the same valve connectors (i.e. are they interchangeable) ? Thanks
CNG
Jeff; Check for Sea NG natural gas galley fuel in the Toronto and Kingston Area. It is , or was, part of Consumers gas in Ontario in 1985 -86. In Kingston, they had listed Anglin's Energy Centre at 2268 Princess Street as a Sea NG fuelling station. For the West coast Canada and NW coast us, You can still exchange tanks through River Marine at 150-750 Terminal Ave in Vancouver, (604)324-9454. They can give you other tank exchange depots for the west coast of Canada and Gulf Islands. Also, you can get a 350 nitrogen tank fitting and a safety release valve 2400 most likely at a welding supply shop. Hope this may help. I have had CNG for 18 years on my 1984 H31, and would hate to have to use propane. Mac
Jeff; Check for Sea NG natural gas galley fuel in the Toronto and Kingston Area. It is , or was, part of Consumers gas in Ontario in 1985 -86. In Kingston, they had listed Anglin's Energy Centre at 2268 Princess Street as a Sea NG fuelling station. For the West coast Canada and NW coast us, You can still exchange tanks through River Marine at 150-750 Terminal Ave in Vancouver, (604)324-9454. They can give you other tank exchange depots for the west coast of Canada and Gulf Islands. Also, you can get a 350 nitrogen tank fitting and a safety release valve 2400 most likely at a welding supply shop. Hope this may help. I have had CNG for 18 years on my 1984 H31, and would hate to have to use propane. Mac
Sigh, still no joy in CNG-land
Thanks everyone for your help. Here is the situation currently. - The tank exchange places in upper NY, VT want US$65-75 for one tank!! They say that most of the cost is what they have to pay to ship the tanks to be filled. Either way, that combined with the 6+ hours of driving makes it very unattractive. - Corp Brothers can no longer ship hazardous materials to Canada via UPS. - Many of the auto CNG places I have talked to say they will not fill unless it is part of an auto system. However, I have found a couple that seem more willing. So now I am trying to put together an adapter using the info that Mac supplied. Will report on that later. Thanks again, Jeff p.s., Mac, the Anglin's (or Ultramar) in Kingston claim complete ignorance wrt galley CNG etc. Maybe I didn;t ask the right person or things have changed...
Thanks everyone for your help. Here is the situation currently. - The tank exchange places in upper NY, VT want US$65-75 for one tank!! They say that most of the cost is what they have to pay to ship the tanks to be filled. Either way, that combined with the 6+ hours of driving makes it very unattractive. - Corp Brothers can no longer ship hazardous materials to Canada via UPS. - Many of the auto CNG places I have talked to say they will not fill unless it is part of an auto system. However, I have found a couple that seem more willing. So now I am trying to put together an adapter using the info that Mac supplied. Will report on that later. Thanks again, Jeff p.s., Mac, the Anglin's (or Ultramar) in Kingston claim complete ignorance wrt galley CNG etc. Maybe I didn;t ask the right person or things have changed...
thought i could help, but....
...when i went to my bookmarks, found that a site that i had seen that sold an "adapter" which allows you to fill from vehicle refuleing station....well, it just wasn't there any more! I could have sworn it was in the corp brothers catalog, but alas, cannot find it. Anyone who could point the way, it would be greatly appreciated.
...when i went to my bookmarks, found that a site that i had seen that sold an "adapter" which allows you to fill from vehicle refuleing station....well, it just wasn't there any more! I could have sworn it was in the corp brothers catalog, but alas, cannot find it. Anyone who could point the way, it would be greatly appreciated.
change
Jeff; My information was optained at the Toronto boat show from consumers gas but that was in 1985 so things may have changed drastically. Perhaps Angus Yachts in Toronto might have some info as they are the Hunter dealer there. Maybe someone in the Toronto area may have some more up to date info. Mac
Jeff; My information was optained at the Toronto boat show from consumers gas but that was in 1985 so things may have changed drastically. Perhaps Angus Yachts in Toronto might have some info as they are the Hunter dealer there. Maybe someone in the Toronto area may have some more up to date info. Mac
CNG Fill Adapter Parts List
CNG Fill Adapter Mcmaster Carr Parts List 79215A666 CGA 350 Nut 1ea 2.40 79215A667 CGA 350 Nipple 1ea 2.69 4090K5 3000psi brass-case Gage 1ea 31.18 3845K1 3000psi ABS-case Gage 14.86 7833K14 1/4" needle valve Brass MxM 1ea 16.53 7833K21 1/4" needle valve Brass MxF 1ea 16.53 9171K27 1/4" Brass Tee 3000psi 1ea 6.22 9171K32 1/4" Brass Tee 3000psi MxFxF 1ea 9.68 Snap-Tite Inc BVGVN2-P30 NGV-2 Brass Fill Connector 1/4" NPT connection 1ea ~$30.00 Can be ordered from a local hydraulic/pneumatic dealer who handles Snap-Tite products. I would consider ordering it for you if you can’t get a local supplier. Start with this part, as the rest is standard off the shelf at: www.mcmaster.com
CNG Fill Adapter Mcmaster Carr Parts List 79215A666 CGA 350 Nut 1ea 2.40 79215A667 CGA 350 Nipple 1ea 2.69 4090K5 3000psi brass-case Gage 1ea 31.18 3845K1 3000psi ABS-case Gage 14.86 7833K14 1/4" needle valve Brass MxM 1ea 16.53 7833K21 1/4" needle valve Brass MxF 1ea 16.53 9171K27 1/4" Brass Tee 3000psi 1ea 6.22 9171K32 1/4" Brass Tee 3000psi MxFxF 1ea 9.68 Snap-Tite Inc BVGVN2-P30 NGV-2 Brass Fill Connector 1/4" NPT connection 1ea ~$30.00 Can be ordered from a local hydraulic/pneumatic dealer who handles Snap-Tite products. I would consider ordering it for you if you can’t get a local supplier. Start with this part, as the rest is standard off the shelf at: www.mcmaster.com
Attachments
Success (of a sort...)
Thanks to a former Kingston area Hunter owner I was able to find a place in Toronto which would fill the tanks. KMC on Markham Road near Finch. On the phone they said C$15 per tank. So I did the 2 hour drive (each way :-( with my two tanks. The pump guy hooked up and started filling. He stopped at 1800psi and started to disconnect. To make a long story short, he said that Consumers Gas (the local gas utility?) installed the filling system and set it to 1800 max so that's all they can do. No idea if this is really true or why it would be so but I wasn't going to get anywhere arguing with him. He just fills the tanks. So, in the end I paid C$30 (about US$20) for two 1800psi fills. Not great but pound for pound better value than the tank exchange places across the border and now I can cook!! Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. I am still going to look at getting/making an adapter but the need is not quite as urgent. Jeff p.s., re: Adapters: I phoned Corp Bros about the adapter and they said that they are reengineering the one they sell because apparently auto filling stations are moving to 5000psi and their previous model was not rated for that. Perhaps people building their own adapters should be careful about this?
Thanks to a former Kingston area Hunter owner I was able to find a place in Toronto which would fill the tanks. KMC on Markham Road near Finch. On the phone they said C$15 per tank. So I did the 2 hour drive (each way :-( with my two tanks. The pump guy hooked up and started filling. He stopped at 1800psi and started to disconnect. To make a long story short, he said that Consumers Gas (the local gas utility?) installed the filling system and set it to 1800 max so that's all they can do. No idea if this is really true or why it would be so but I wasn't going to get anywhere arguing with him. He just fills the tanks. So, in the end I paid C$30 (about US$20) for two 1800psi fills. Not great but pound for pound better value than the tank exchange places across the border and now I can cook!! Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. I am still going to look at getting/making an adapter but the need is not quite as urgent. Jeff p.s., re: Adapters: I phoned Corp Bros about the adapter and they said that they are reengineering the one they sell because apparently auto filling stations are moving to 5000psi and their previous model was not rated for that. Perhaps people building their own adapters should be careful about this?
Filling Legal Problems
Several years ago I took my CNG tank to the local gas company and they filled it with gas. The gas cost at the time was something like $0.55, more or less (US$) but they charged a minimum something like $2.00 because someone filled the tank for me and used an adaptor and this was their minimum billing charge. They also fill tanks for cars and had a self-serv setup. Needless to say I wanted to cut out the billing charge and do it myself (also, had to use their service during normal office hours whereas if I did it myself I could do it easily after work. Anyway, I contacted Sure Marine to enquire about the purchase of an adaptor and they asked me questions - where would I fill the tanks, etc. Then they read me the riot act about this being illegal and contacted the gas company and read them the riot act too. Needless to say, ever since I've been doing the exchange method. However, last summer I talked to them about my trip to Alaska and asked them about where I could get my tank exchanged and they said to just go to someone who sold fuel to autos as they had no dealers in the area. Apparently shipping tanks to Alaska is a problem for them. The tanks are not "owned" by us but by Sure Marine. We're just allowed to use them. To avoid legal problems I'd recommend doing some checking about availability in your area and, if possible, get an approval from Sure Marine. If there is no distributor in the area and they're trying to build a territory for distribution they will probably say no, but who knows? Technically I don't think it is legal to fill one's "own" tanks without Sure Marines approval.
Several years ago I took my CNG tank to the local gas company and they filled it with gas. The gas cost at the time was something like $0.55, more or less (US$) but they charged a minimum something like $2.00 because someone filled the tank for me and used an adaptor and this was their minimum billing charge. They also fill tanks for cars and had a self-serv setup. Needless to say I wanted to cut out the billing charge and do it myself (also, had to use their service during normal office hours whereas if I did it myself I could do it easily after work. Anyway, I contacted Sure Marine to enquire about the purchase of an adaptor and they asked me questions - where would I fill the tanks, etc. Then they read me the riot act about this being illegal and contacted the gas company and read them the riot act too. Needless to say, ever since I've been doing the exchange method. However, last summer I talked to them about my trip to Alaska and asked them about where I could get my tank exchanged and they said to just go to someone who sold fuel to autos as they had no dealers in the area. Apparently shipping tanks to Alaska is a problem for them. The tanks are not "owned" by us but by Sure Marine. We're just allowed to use them. To avoid legal problems I'd recommend doing some checking about availability in your area and, if possible, get an approval from Sure Marine. If there is no distributor in the area and they're trying to build a territory for distribution they will probably say no, but who knows? Technically I don't think it is legal to fill one's "own" tanks without Sure Marines approval.
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