Club racers.

[L.Christensen]

We have a 235 First with the wing keel and a roller furling jib and 3 year old standard dacron Precision sails. We are looking for more speed for our local club races. We generally see winds around 5- 13 knots. Does anyone have any suggestions or input on what they are using for sails and speed?
/ Lon

 

[cb32863]

I use standard Dacron for my main and my 135 head sail. My 235 has a wing keel as well. As long as your sails are in good shape, that probably is not the issue with speed. Sometimes you just have to look at your trim, your tactics, and your maneuvers. I had a Mylar/Kevlar head sail for a while but, inexperienced crew destroyed that. I understand, trust me, that you feel you have a fast boat and that you should be doing better but, like I said, sometimes its not the hardware, it is what you are doing with it. We are faster now but, still nowhere near where we should be and that just takes time. It is now down to the little things in trim, driving, maneuvers, etc..

Also, what's the condition of your bottom and keel?

 

[shemandr]

I think the 235 rates somewhere around 220. With a waterline of around 20' that's about what you get. The trick is to keep the boat at that speed for as much of the race as possible. That means not stalling the sails - ever. With the wing keel you may not point like some of the other boats but you have to keep your speed up. On the sailboatdata.com website that boat is shown with 5 people on the rail, including the helmsman. How many do you sail with? Good sails, clean bottom, keeping the boat light all help with speed. But I think the biggest factor is the helmsman's concentration and the trimmer's attention to keeping the boat moving. Most people drive the boat better when that's all they do. You have someone else do tactics, call trim changes etc and stick to driving - it's hard enough to do that well.

 

[JohnShannon]

folding prop? Is the goal just faster or are you in some rating system where the goal is to be faster than the "system" thinks you are?

 

[cb32863]

folding prop? Is the goal just faster or are you in some rating system where the goal is to be faster than the "system" thinks you are?

First 235 uses an outboard, probably races in a PHRF fleet, no one design fleets out there that I know of. The goal is to sail to your rating which, is not easy to do.

 

[L.Christensen]

I use standard Dacron for my main and my 135 head sail. My 235 has a wing keel as well. As long as your sails are in good shape, that probably is not the issue with speed. Sometimes you just have to look at your trim, your tactics, and your maneuvers. I had a Mylar/Kevlar head sail for a while but, inexperienced crew destroyed that. I understand, trust me, that you feel you have a fast boat and that you should be doing better but, like I said, sometimes its not the hardware, it is what you are doing with it. We are faster now but, still nowhere near where we should be and that just takes time. It is now down to the little things in trim, driving, maneuvers, etc..

Also, what's the condition of your bottom and keel?

The bottom paint is 3 years old with a few fiberglass blisters. It has been about 6 months since I have cleaned the algae off the bottom, though. That is on my agenda next week (weather permitting).

My jib is a 110. Everyone seems to be running a 135. Would that have much of an effect?

 

[L.Christensen]

folding prop? Is the goal just faster or are you in some rating system where the goal is to be faster than the "system" thinks you are?

It has an outboard. We are scored with a handicap and I seem to be nowhere near that! We're just trying to stay in the same zip code by the end of the race.

 

[L.Christensen]

I think the 235 rates somewhere around 220. With a waterline of around 20' that's about what you get. The trick is to keep the boat at that speed for as much of the race as possible. That means not stalling the sails - ever. With the wing keel you may not point like some of the other boats but you have to keep your speed up. On the sailboatdata.com website that boat is shown with 5 people on the rail, including the helmsman. How many do you sail with? Good sails, clean bottom, keeping the boat light all help with speed. But I think the biggest factor is the helmsman's concentration and the trimmer's attention to keeping the boat moving. Most people drive the boat better when that's all they do. You have someone else do tactics, call trim changes etc and stick to driving - it's hard enough to do that well.

I sail singlehanded 50% of the time and with 1 crew member the other 50%. True, the bottom hasn't been cleaned in 6 months, but I'd say that is typical for most of the boats I'm competing with right now.

 

[jon hansen]

i'll tell you where to find answers to all your questions, i do mean all.

buy that book by Frank and learn what the rockstars know.
all boats on all waters.
learn who Frank was and about his family.

 

[L.Christensen]

Will do. Thanks!

 

[jon hansen]

lake wylie. hell, my brother has a house on lake wylie. was down there over christmas screwing around. nice place

 

[jon hansen]

ever hear of the olympic racer, the "49er" , Bethwaite design.
the whole family are sailing champions

 

[L.Christensen]

Thanks. It's not the best for sailing but we are in a great club with great people. We bought the boat with the possibility of keeping it in Charleston, SC eventually.

 

[L.Christensen]

No. Not heard of "49er".

 

[cb32863]

The bottom paint is 3 years old with a few fiberglass blisters. It has been about 6 months since I have cleaned the algae off the bottom, though. That is on my agenda next week (weather permitting).

My jib is a 110. Everyone seems to be running a 135. Would that have much of an effect?

I would definitely look in to a 135 for your head sail. It is the sweet spot for the 235. I feel your pain trying to stay up with others, went through it myself. Watch what other boats are doing, work the traveller, out haul, it all adds up. We threw most of our time out during maneuvers. Practice as much as you can. Ask one of the fast guys to sail and see what they say. I know that in today's world that is not really possible but, maybe they can sail near you. You will get there in time.

 

[L.Christensen]

Thanks!

 

[JohnShannon]

Singlehanding slows you down. Your tacks aren't as sharp, the sails aren't as well trimmed etc. Are you handicapped with the 110 or does your committee assume you are running a 165 jib? Bigger sails specially in light air make a difference. Bigger sails are much more of a pain to tack. Are you using a spinnaker or are you racing in a non-spin division?

 

[L.Christensen]

I'm not using a spinnaker and they handicap me accordingly. My tacks and jibes are generally pretty smooth, unless it's gusty out. The down wind leg of the race I would often stay close with the other boat in my class who is also not using a spinnaker. He, however does use a larger genoa. Down wind I generally go wing on wing with the whisker pole holding out the jib. Or, if the circumstance allows, I simply sail on a broad reach jibbing once or twice.

The one trim adjustment I haven't tried yet is the outhaul. It is currently pulled tight. I will be slacking it on the next opportunity to allow more shape and belly in the main on our light air days.

Thanks!

 

[CapitalistSailor]

In light air a dirty bottom makes a surprisingly large difference, and some difference even on windy days. If it's not too cold jump in and scrub what you can. Otherwise get some kind of gadget like a brushes on sticks or a thing called a "Lazy Diver". It is piece of mesh cloth about 20-25' long and maybe 4' wide. Two people alternate pulling it back and forth under the hull from either side, working their way from one end to the other. I use this thing before most races and every couple weeks otherwise. You can probably find something at a fabric store that you could use to do the same thing. Someone used to sell a gadget which was basically carpet attached to a block of foam on the end of an angled plastic pipe. The angled pipe allowed the user to get the end underneath the sides of the hull, and the foam block pushed the carpet up against the bottom of the hull. I haven't send one of these for sale for a while but they're around.

 

[CapitalistSailor]

I feel your pain on the jib size. The largest jib that will fit on my Beneteau 311 is a 116% jib (the jib leads are inside the shrouds). On light air days I am at a significant disadvantage to those boats with a 155% jib, which is most of them. The PHRF handicap system we use here assumes boats will have a 155% jib. No credit is given for smaller jibs, unless a special one design class is set up. Once the wind gets up to about 8 knots then I can keep up upwind, but I still need more downwind.

My last boat had older OEM sails that were in good physical condition, but had lost much of their shape by the time I bought the boat. They were much more rounded than new sails, so when a gust hit, the boat just heeled over more rather than accelerate. When I got new sails, it was like a different boat. When a gust hit, or stronger wind, the boat would go faster instead of just leaning over.

Take a look and see where the deepest draft is in you sails. If the deepest part is in the middle rather than towards the luff (front to back, not up and down), the sails are too round and blown out. You may be able to get them recut to get much of the shape back. If they are too worn or too damaged from the sun, such that the sail will come apart if the cloth is restitched, then new sails are the only answer. Good used sails can sometimes be found online, or better yet, from a serious racer who buys new sails every year.

Good luck. It takes time to learn a new boat, particularly if you don't have a sister ship to sail against. Racing will accelerate your learning process. If you find something really seems to be working (or the opposite), take some notes afterward and maybe make some marks on the lines or next to where the gear was set. In time you'll build up your own tuning guide.

Time sailing in the boat is a big help.

On short courses a good start can be more important than anything else if you don't make any big mistakes. Do a few practice starts when you have some extra time, and get out to the race course early to see what's up with the wind that day and figure out a plan. You don't have to have the best start, and it can be better to start a little away from the serious sailors to get clean air and a chance to do your thing (assuming the line is reasonably straight into the wind). Sailing shorthanded, it's more important to be sailing in clear air, moving well, and in good position a minute after the start, not at the start. Once you're ahead of a least a few boats, stay between the mark and the boats behind you, loosely covering if you have a cushion, and go after the next one or two ahead.