Cleats??????

[C_Level]

I am close to completing a total restore on 1975 cat 22 and am in the process of drilling and putting epoxy in all the new deck thru holes for remounting all hardware. The cleats that came with are black nylon and since I am very new to sailing I wanted to ask of they were worth putting back on?
The boat will be on trailer and I will use it in a lake for this summer but at some point I expect to put it in a slip with bay access. Do these nylon cleats hold up or should they be upgraded?

Thank You!

 

[AaronD]

Good question. My experience with nylon cleats has been fine; no problems with strength or with UV (here in the cloudy PNW). But I do appreciate that I bumped up in size from 6" to 8". You can use slightly larger dock lines while she's in a slip (if you're worried about chafe while away from the boat), and have room for 2 lines if needed (e.g. for spring lines or doubling up on a mooring ball).

If you weren't already planning on midship cleats - highly recommended. I repurposed a couple of the smaller 6" cleats there; no complaints for that use case. YMMV.

And we want pics of your restoration!

 

[rpludwig]

Timely question!
I have an '84, in a slip year round, no moon tide but occasionally a significant wind tide where we may lose up to 3' of water so we need to keep an eye on our dock lines (doubled all 4 corners).
This occurred recently, the stbd aft nylon cleat (intact) was found hanging on the dock lines and a 3 x 6" hole ripped out of the fiberglass. Catalina did not use backing plates under cleats, and if they did it is a skimpy piece of plywood glassed in as reported by some.
I have since had it repaired (glassed) and the original cleat reused w/ G10 backing plates below. I had contemplated replacing the cleats with larger SS, but if the original 6 1/2" nylon cleats can hold up to this with double dock lines, no worries. Now I am confident the boat will fail before the cleats do!
(if your deck core is not rotted, you'll be fine....chk my other recent post of the subject, the aft cleats are accessable, the bow cleats are another animal!) …...and I highly recommend adding midship cleats for springlines, have done so.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

No issue here as well with nylon cleats from '84 when I sold the boat 3-4 years ago

 

[pclarksurf]

Nylon will snap (eventually) and aluminum (short of catastrophe ) will not: Schaeffer Marine-- not an exact fit on the mounting hardware, but if you were already there-- easy fill and drill:

And neglected to mention-- as far as I can tell, stubbing your toe on aluminum vs. nylon feels about the same

 

[C_Level]

Good question. My experience with nylon cleats has been fine; no problems with strength or with UV (here in the cloudy PNW). But I do appreciate that I bumped up in size from 6" to 8". You can use slightly larger dock lines while she's in a slip (if you're worried about chafe while away from the boat), and have room for 2 lines if needed (e.g. for spring lines or doubling up on a mooring ball).

If you weren't already planning on midship cleats - highly recommended. I repurposed a couple of the smaller 6" cleats there; no complaints for that use case. YMMV.

And we want pics of your restoration!

It makes sense to add cleats midship and after everything I have done for this restore what's another couple of holes. Even though it will be trailered and used in lake for now I want to make sure it is ready for slip life. One thing I do have is pics. Thanks for your reply!

 

[C_Level]

Timely question!
I have an '84, in a slip year round, no moon tide but occasionally a significant wind tide where we may lose up to 3' of water so we need to keep an eye on our dock lines (doubled all 4 corners).
This occurred recently, the stbd aft nylon cleat (intact) was found hanging on the dock lines and a 3 x 6" hole ripped out of the fiberglass. Catalina did not use backing plates under cleats, and if they did it is a skimpy piece of plywood glassed in as reported by some.
I have since had it repaired (glassed) and the original cleat reused w/ G10 backing plates below. I had contemplated replacing the cleats with larger SS, but if the original 6 1/2" nylon cleats can hold up to this with double dock lines, no worries. Now I am confident the boat will fail before the cleats do!
(if your deck core is not rotted, you'll be fine....chk my other recent post of the subject, the aft cleats are accessable, the bow cleats are another animal!) …...and I highly recommend adding midship cleats for springlines, have done so.

I did see your post and I have to say that one of the first things I noticed was that only washers and nuts were used all around for mounting the hardware and they all looked to be failing when I bought the boat.
Right now the deck is like a sidewalk. I beefed the deck up when I replaced the core maybe more than I should have as it has created me problems with the new chainplates. I am still going to make backing plates just as you did for all hardware cause it makes perfect sense as well as cleats midship. Still not sure what I will do about the type of cleats but will have to decide pretty soon. You are right about access to bow but it will be manageable. Thanks for your reply!! This is a new world for me and any input is well taken.

 

[C_Level]

Nylon will snap (eventually) and aluminum (short of catastrophe ) will not: Schaeffer Marine-- not an exact fit on the mounting hardware, but if you were already there-- easy fill and drill:

And neglected to mention-- as far as I can tell, stubbing your toe on aluminum vs. nylon feels about the same

View attachment 213634

View attachment 213635

I would feel better if my cleats were metal over nylon especially if I ever wind up in a slip with tidal issues, but nylon seems to be sufficient. If I know I can find alum or stainless with same hole spacing I would be good putting the nylon ones on and replace down the road if need be. Right now I will be happy if I can just get her back on my trailer and in the lake. HaHa on toe stub!!
I notice that you have no safety lines on your boat. Do you sail in a lake? The previous owner used the boat I bought in a lake so he never used safety lines. The stanchions were removed and stowed away in the cabin. I took her out in the lake just cause I was anxious to sail and also wanted to test the boat. I really did not miss the safety lines at all but not sure how I would feel if I were in rougher water.
The only time I was in the bay on sailboat was when I took ASA 101 and it was on an 86 cat 22. It was in the fall and we had 28 mph gusts on the second day. Not sure I would want to go out in that without those lines.
During my restore I worked out a way that I can remove the stanchions without having to re-bed them by fabricating a mounting block so I can tarp the boat for the winter and not have to deal with the stanchions poking holes in the tarp. I should also be able to put them on easily if I do decide to trailer to the bay. Just curious when I saw you had none.
Thanks for your reply and past replies!!

 

[Project_Mayhem]

If you're in fresh water you can use Unistrut washers as backing plates. Very thick, heavy anti corrosion coating, no fabricating needed and they're cheap

 

[pclarksurf]

I notice that you have no safety lines on your boat. Do you sail in a lake? The previous owner used the boat I bought in a lake so he never used safety lines. The stanchions were removed and stowed away in the cabin.

Indeed-- and recall that mine is a stock '73 , and to the best of my knowledge none of us early boats came from the factory with lifelines (or it was an option perhaps that we don't see much of).

Loads of input on the forum around personal preferences for and against lifelines-- I am not a fan on the C22 personally. Primary reason being the walking space is already limited and cluttering it up with a lifeline actually makes it worse for going forward (even more toe stubbing fodder!). Everyone's experiences a bit different, and I have no small ones on board- usually just my wife and I with spinlock inflatable PFDs. My primary location is the Columbia river-- so freezing to death in 15 min (think SF Bay Area) not the concern, and certainly not the open ocean / coastal cruising where it's likely to be isolated.

And I would say that if you are expecting the lifeline to actually save your life-- don't. Invest in Jacklines and a split tether harness -- no doubt the lifeline might give you chance at staying aboard, but in a real beatdown / knockdown they will be swimming right along with you.