I am buying a used boat and the sails are structurally good, but dirty and a few rust spots and the seams are cruddy. Any suggestions for the best way to clean them? I was wondering about the new "oxy" cleaners. They work wonders on home carpet stains and they don't have bleach.
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Sail Cleaning
I sent my 10 year old sails to Sailcare this winter and they did a wonderful job. The sails weren't just cleaned but Sailcare restored the body to the cloth. I bought a new sail for my last boat but I wish I had tried Sailcare first. I would have saved quite a bit of $$$. By the way, I don't work for them.
I sent my 10 year old sails to Sailcare this winter and they did a wonderful job. The sails weren't just cleaned but Sailcare restored the body to the cloth. I bought a new sail for my last boat but I wish I had tried Sailcare first. I would have saved quite a bit of $$$. By the way, I don't work for them.
Soak em
The best way to clean sails is in your bathtub with luke warm water and a mild soap and let it soak. We like Dove dishwashing detergent. You can even walk on the sail with your feet to work it. For stubborn stains use the mild detergent with a small soft brush ( like a nail brush ) and brush lightly. For tough stains or mildew use about 1 cup of non chlorine bleach (colorsafe) to each 5 gallons of water. Mix together well in the warm water bath and let it soak for 20 minutes. Thoroughly rinse several times with cold water. We have not tried the oxy cleaners. Probably a good idea. For rust,I read in the " Modern Boat Maintenannce" book to use Oxalic Acid ( 1 oz per pint of water) in a plastic busket and to soak only the rust area in the bucket and wash and rinse thoroughly after. Also said to hang by the luff and not the leech when drying. Or you can lay the sail out on a clean tarp.
The best way to clean sails is in your bathtub with luke warm water and a mild soap and let it soak. We like Dove dishwashing detergent. You can even walk on the sail with your feet to work it. For stubborn stains use the mild detergent with a small soft brush ( like a nail brush ) and brush lightly. For tough stains or mildew use about 1 cup of non chlorine bleach (colorsafe) to each 5 gallons of water. Mix together well in the warm water bath and let it soak for 20 minutes. Thoroughly rinse several times with cold water. We have not tried the oxy cleaners. Probably a good idea. For rust,I read in the " Modern Boat Maintenannce" book to use Oxalic Acid ( 1 oz per pint of water) in a plastic busket and to soak only the rust area in the bucket and wash and rinse thoroughly after. Also said to hang by the luff and not the leech when drying. Or you can lay the sail out on a clean tarp.
Use bleach- pure- don't dilute
First off, you don't say how big the sails are. On our H34 we scrub 'em on the driveway. (paved) Cleaning the driveway first is the hard part. Then lay out the sail and get it wet. I used Simple Green last time mixed in a 5 gallon bucket. Also sprayed it on straight over the bad spots. Added bleach, straight, over the spots that were the worst. Then for rust, are you ready? Pure muriatic ACID! Right on the rust stain. Don't do anything else while the acid is on the cloth. Just work it with a nylon brush and hose it off when the stains float away. My sails came out looking new. And they are just fine. No damage. I have only used this method on cruising sails, made of Dacron. It is a sister fabric to nylon, the stuff that the acid bottle is made of. Sails are not silk.
First off, you don't say how big the sails are. On our H34 we scrub 'em on the driveway. (paved) Cleaning the driveway first is the hard part. Then lay out the sail and get it wet. I used Simple Green last time mixed in a 5 gallon bucket. Also sprayed it on straight over the bad spots. Added bleach, straight, over the spots that were the worst. Then for rust, are you ready? Pure muriatic ACID! Right on the rust stain. Don't do anything else while the acid is on the cloth. Just work it with a nylon brush and hose it off when the stains float away. My sails came out looking new. And they are just fine. No damage. I have only used this method on cruising sails, made of Dacron. It is a sister fabric to nylon, the stuff that the acid bottle is made of. Sails are not silk.
Any pool supply store. It's used for changing PH
It cost about 6 bucks a gallon. One gallon is plenty. Use in open spaces. (don't breathe it) When you do, you will stop. (breathing it)
It cost about 6 bucks a gallon. One gallon is plenty. Use in open spaces. (don't breathe it) When you do, you will stop. (breathing it)
sail care
thanks for the unsolicited comment on sail care, I've read they not only clean the sails but also put body back into them. I'll try them after the season.
thanks for the unsolicited comment on sail care, I've read they not only clean the sails but also put body back into them. I'll try them after the season.
Sail Care is Great
I sent my mail sail to them after seeing tham at the Sail Show in Annapolis. They look brand new. They repaired some small imperfections, cleaned them and but the 'body' back. Can't say enough ... and I don't work for them.
I sent my mail sail to them after seeing tham at the Sail Show in Annapolis. They look brand new. They repaired some small imperfections, cleaned them and but the 'body' back. Can't say enough ... and I don't work for them.
Bleach?
Fred, I see that you used pure bleach. How long ago, and have you seen any problems from using it? I'm not only worried about the sail material itself, but the stitching - bleach is a pretty caustic substance....
Fred, I see that you used pure bleach. How long ago, and have you seen any problems from using it? I'm not only worried about the sail material itself, but the stitching - bleach is a pretty caustic substance....
Pure Bleach
I am amazed that you can use straight bleach without ruining the sail. The technique is have used for years is simple and effective. I stop up the cockpit scuppers with a paper towel, fill with cockpit with lake water( very clean on my lake), add liquid detergent, preferably Dawn because it doesn't react with the Bleach (Clorox) and about a cup of Clorox. Soak the sail, Ok to walk on them barefooted, until white. When clean, I partially raise the sail and hose it of on both sides and continue until fully raised and rinsed. Leave it up until dry. As and added bonus, all foot fungus is cured and you have a very clean cockpit!
I am amazed that you can use straight bleach without ruining the sail. The technique is have used for years is simple and effective. I stop up the cockpit scuppers with a paper towel, fill with cockpit with lake water( very clean on my lake), add liquid detergent, preferably Dawn because it doesn't react with the Bleach (Clorox) and about a cup of Clorox. Soak the sail, Ok to walk on them barefooted, until white. When clean, I partially raise the sail and hose it of on both sides and continue until fully raised and rinsed. Leave it up until dry. As and added bonus, all foot fungus is cured and you have a very clean cockpit!
swimming pool
if you or a friend has a swimming pool, it works great....gentle bleach for a couple of days...splash around with a brush just for fun.
if you or a friend has a swimming pool, it works great....gentle bleach for a couple of days...splash around with a brush just for fun.
Steve, been using it since the '70s
Never had a problem. Just rinse it off after the cleaning. Dacron has a half life just short of plutonium. It doesn't like a lot of UV for many years, but even that, takes a long time. Ever notice the old halyards around the marina? P.S. Can't speak about color, but bleach on a spinnaker is even safer. What kind of bottle is the bleach sold in?
Never had a problem. Just rinse it off after the cleaning. Dacron has a half life just short of plutonium. It doesn't like a lot of UV for many years, but even that, takes a long time. Ever notice the old halyards around the marina? P.S. Can't speak about color, but bleach on a spinnaker is even safer. What kind of bottle is the bleach sold in?
Bleach is OK, Detergent is not
Dacron sails are made of polyester which is not harmed by bleach. Chlorox to your hearts content. Polyester can be harmed by alkalis which include the detergents found in many household cleansers. Natural soaps (such as a bar of ivory) and surfactant cleaners (such as Simple Green) are better choices for greasy stains or other discoloration left by the bleach. The effect of using a detergent on your sails (or ropes for that matter) will not be to destroy them. You will merely shorten their lives a little. Nylon, on the other hand, can be cleaned with detergents but is harmed by bleach. Watch out using bleach on nylon spinnakers and anchor rodes!
Dacron sails are made of polyester which is not harmed by bleach. Chlorox to your hearts content. Polyester can be harmed by alkalis which include the detergents found in many household cleansers. Natural soaps (such as a bar of ivory) and surfactant cleaners (such as Simple Green) are better choices for greasy stains or other discoloration left by the bleach. The effect of using a detergent on your sails (or ropes for that matter) will not be to destroy them. You will merely shorten their lives a little. Nylon, on the other hand, can be cleaned with detergents but is harmed by bleach. Watch out using bleach on nylon spinnakers and anchor rodes!
Past Research
Paul: This is from some research that I did several years ago. This information was from several sources that I had put together. This is advice from people that SHOULD be experts on the subject. http://archive.sailboatowners.com/archive/archivepview.tpl?sku=2002072104547.51&forumabr=as&fno=122&_ptitle=ptitle%2Brtitle&_pname=pname&&model=none&forum=none&andor=wa&keyword=sail%20dion&pr=p&ssite=HOW&srt=pdate&start=1&db=2002
Paul: This is from some research that I did several years ago. This information was from several sources that I had put together. This is advice from people that SHOULD be experts on the subject. http://archive.sailboatowners.com/archive/archivepview.tpl?sku=2002072104547.51&forumabr=as&fno=122&_ptitle=ptitle%2Brtitle&_pname=pname&&model=none&forum=none&andor=wa&keyword=sail%20dion&pr=p&ssite=HOW&srt=pdate&start=1&db=2002
...additional research.
Here is some additonal research that I have done. I would suggest that you DO NOT use straight bleach. Some of these sources recommend NO BLEACH at all. From Neil Pride Sails Washing sails It is important to wash sails very carefully. Warm water and detergent will get off the majority of dirt marks (apart from rust and blood) and a good final rinse down with cold, fresh water is vital. Never use any strong chemicals or bleach. From Sailnet Article Mildew Prevention is the best tactic, but if mildew has attacked the sail, treat it immediately and isolate the area from the rest of the sail to prevent spreading. Do not use bleach on Kevlar or nylon. All other laminates and coatings can take a weak chlorine bleach solution of one percent or less. Most bleach (sodium hypochlorite) solutions off the shelf, like Clorox, are a 5.25 percent solution and will need to be diluted. Some commercial brands of mildew cleaners like Tilex have three percent or less solution of bleach and can be used with dilution and a litte extra care. Lysol is a fungicide that when sprayed on the sail will kill existing spores and inhibit any additional growth. After the organism is killed, most of the stain can be removed by soaking (not scrubbing) in a fungicide for 12 or more hours. Always rinse thoroughly to ensure there is no bleach residue left on the sail. It is possible to soak and clean a sail in a swimming pool, but this should only be done to polyester sails when you are sure that the chlorine or other chemical level of the water is within the tolerance level of the coating. Never place a Kevlar or nylon sail in the pool. From Banks Sails-NC What about your sails? How do you keep them clean? The single biggest thing you can do to keep your sails clean is to dry them. If you have to furl your sails wet, make it a point to shake them out when the rain stops and let them dry. Unfurl you genoa at the dock if there’s little breeze, pull the main part way up, and let them air. Don’t strangle the main when you put the stops on. Tight stops cause unnecessary chafe on the sail as well as trapping moisture. Make sure your mainsail cover fits loosely so there is air movement under it. It’s also important to wash out salt and gritty dirt that can cause abrasion to the fibers. You can do this on a nice light air day with the sails on the boat. Just unfurl/hoist the sails in your slip and take the hose to them. Drop the genoa on the fordeck, scrub the head with your deck brush and a mild soap solution, rinse, hoist that section to get it off the deck, and move down to the next section. Scrub, rinse and hoist until it’s all the way up, then let it dry. Do the same thing with the mainsail on the cabintop. It’s a good excuse to play with the hose on a hot day. Of course, you can pay professionals to wash sails for you too. To get grease out of your sail try GREASE RELIEF or K2-R SPOT REMOVER, both found in the grocery store cleaning products aisle. Mildew is as tough a problem on sails as on canvas. Sails don’t like harsh cleaners like bleach or phosphates any more than canvas does. The fibers start to break down after prolonged contact, especially when exposed to the sun. If you feel you must bleach an area of your sail, be very conservative on solution strength and flood the area with water to drive out the remaining bleach. Let it dry before stowing. You should be monitoring the stitching for chafe as a matter of course, but bleach will accelerate thread deterioration, so be especially watchful in bleached areas. Again, mildew prevention by drying your sails is the way to go. From Direct Marine Cleaning: Clean every year before winter storage. Remove dirt and salt using mild detergent and brush. Avoid excessive agitation. Rinse and dry thoroughly before folding for storage. Remove mildew immediately. Spray small sail areas with a disinfectant (e.g., Lysol®). On sails of Dacron® polyester, wash larger areas by soaking in a mixture of 25% chlorine bleach (e.g., Clorox®) and 75% water for 15 minutes. (Warning: Never use chlorine bleaches on sails of nylon or Kevlar® aramid - use only mild detergent and brush.) Rinse sail thoroughly with fresh water. Exposure to sunlight should fade any stain residues over time after the mildew is stopped. From North Sail If mildew occurs...Treat mildew at the earliest possible moment. If you do not, it can spread quickly. There is an excellent chance of getting mildew stains off when they are new, relatively small, and close to the surface. There is little chance once they have spread and set into the fibres. · Isolate mildew-infected sails, anchor lines, covers, and so forth, from clean sails. The quickest and surest way to spread mildew is to rub an existing growth against a receptive surface. · The single most popular mildew killer and remover is simple household bleach. This is also known as sodium hypochlorite, sold in the U.S. in 5.25% solution with water. This is potentially nasty stuff and manufacturers recommend diluting it quite a bit further before using. Tilex® and other "mildew removers" are mainly sodium hypochlorite in solutions of about 3%, which is still a pretty healthy dosage. · DO NOT use BLEACH (Sodium Hypochlorite) on KEVLAR® or NYLON, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! This is one of the few known, proven solvents for these fibres. We have seen people poke their fingers easily through spinnakers rinsed in chlorine-treated (same as bleach) swimming pools. Of course, this means you should not clean KEVLAR®® and nylon with Tilex® or other commercial mildew cleaners that contain sodium hypochlorite. · DO NOT EVER MIX BLEACH AND AMMONIA and stand around breathing the air. The result is phosgene gas which killed and disabled thousands in the First World War. This little home science experiment continues to kill and cripple people to this day. · For particularly stubborn, deep set stains, surface cleaning will not work. It is necessary to immerse the stain in a fungicide for 12 hours or more, to allow it to get in to where the stain is. It is not necessary to use a particularly high concentration, only to get the fungicide where the stain is. No amount of vigorous surface scrubbing will do what a good soak will do. · After washing with bleach, always rinse thoroughly with plenty of fresh water. Bleach that is not removed can cause long-term structural damage that is more harmful than the cosmetic damage caused by the mildew. · If the mildew stain does not come out after one good wash with the proper equipment and chemicals, give up. Experience shows that further washings/scourings/ treatments remove very little additional stain and cause a lot of other damage. · Scotchguard® and related water repellents do not have any properties that either kill or prevent the recurrence of mildew. They may be marginally effective at repelling some of the moisture and nutrients on which mildew feeds, and might make cleaning easier by holding the stains away from the fibres. There is not much evidence either way on this. · Dettol®, a commonly available household disinfectant, is the most powerful and effective fungicide and inhibitor you can use to prevent recurrence and spread of mildew. Various health and environmental agencies prohibit the use of stronger fungicides since the same thing that kills fungus has similar effects on higher life forms, as most of us would like to picture ourselves. · Anything you use on a sail to kill or remove mildew and stains, will wash or wear away in a relatively short time. This is directly analogous to anti-fouling bottom paints. North NorLam fabrics are treated with the most powerful commercial fungicide we can use without jeopardizing the health of employees and customers. It is 100% effective in preventing mildew in laboratory conditions, and demonstrably less effective in the real world. North is continuing to test alternative cleaners and inhibitors to see if they actually work, and what effect they might have on the integrity of sails. Finally, for people who prefer all-natural and biodegradable solutions, here are some more traditional anti-fungal measures copied from a Royal Navy handbook. We have not tested either of these recipes, so you might want to try them on a remote corner before doing the whole sail. One thing for sure, if you do this to your sail, mildew will probably be the farthest thing from your mind..."The sails of fishing-vessels are generally tanned : lightermen, etc., use the following composition to colour and preserve their sails, viz., horse grease and tar, mixed to a proper consistence, and coloured with red or yellow ochre, with which, when heated, the sails are payed over."The following method is also much approved, viz., the sail, being spread on the grass, is made thoroughly wet with sea-water, and then payed over, on both sides, with brown or red ochre mixed with sea-water to the consistence of cream, it is then well rubbed over, on both sides, with linseed oil. The sail may be used within 24 hours after being oiled.'
Here is some additonal research that I have done. I would suggest that you DO NOT use straight bleach. Some of these sources recommend NO BLEACH at all. From Neil Pride Sails Washing sails It is important to wash sails very carefully. Warm water and detergent will get off the majority of dirt marks (apart from rust and blood) and a good final rinse down with cold, fresh water is vital. Never use any strong chemicals or bleach. From Sailnet Article Mildew Prevention is the best tactic, but if mildew has attacked the sail, treat it immediately and isolate the area from the rest of the sail to prevent spreading. Do not use bleach on Kevlar or nylon. All other laminates and coatings can take a weak chlorine bleach solution of one percent or less. Most bleach (sodium hypochlorite) solutions off the shelf, like Clorox, are a 5.25 percent solution and will need to be diluted. Some commercial brands of mildew cleaners like Tilex have three percent or less solution of bleach and can be used with dilution and a litte extra care. Lysol is a fungicide that when sprayed on the sail will kill existing spores and inhibit any additional growth. After the organism is killed, most of the stain can be removed by soaking (not scrubbing) in a fungicide for 12 or more hours. Always rinse thoroughly to ensure there is no bleach residue left on the sail. It is possible to soak and clean a sail in a swimming pool, but this should only be done to polyester sails when you are sure that the chlorine or other chemical level of the water is within the tolerance level of the coating. Never place a Kevlar or nylon sail in the pool. From Banks Sails-NC What about your sails? How do you keep them clean? The single biggest thing you can do to keep your sails clean is to dry them. If you have to furl your sails wet, make it a point to shake them out when the rain stops and let them dry. Unfurl you genoa at the dock if there’s little breeze, pull the main part way up, and let them air. Don’t strangle the main when you put the stops on. Tight stops cause unnecessary chafe on the sail as well as trapping moisture. Make sure your mainsail cover fits loosely so there is air movement under it. It’s also important to wash out salt and gritty dirt that can cause abrasion to the fibers. You can do this on a nice light air day with the sails on the boat. Just unfurl/hoist the sails in your slip and take the hose to them. Drop the genoa on the fordeck, scrub the head with your deck brush and a mild soap solution, rinse, hoist that section to get it off the deck, and move down to the next section. Scrub, rinse and hoist until it’s all the way up, then let it dry. Do the same thing with the mainsail on the cabintop. It’s a good excuse to play with the hose on a hot day. Of course, you can pay professionals to wash sails for you too. To get grease out of your sail try GREASE RELIEF or K2-R SPOT REMOVER, both found in the grocery store cleaning products aisle. Mildew is as tough a problem on sails as on canvas. Sails don’t like harsh cleaners like bleach or phosphates any more than canvas does. The fibers start to break down after prolonged contact, especially when exposed to the sun. If you feel you must bleach an area of your sail, be very conservative on solution strength and flood the area with water to drive out the remaining bleach. Let it dry before stowing. You should be monitoring the stitching for chafe as a matter of course, but bleach will accelerate thread deterioration, so be especially watchful in bleached areas. Again, mildew prevention by drying your sails is the way to go. From Direct Marine Cleaning: Clean every year before winter storage. Remove dirt and salt using mild detergent and brush. Avoid excessive agitation. Rinse and dry thoroughly before folding for storage. Remove mildew immediately. Spray small sail areas with a disinfectant (e.g., Lysol®). On sails of Dacron® polyester, wash larger areas by soaking in a mixture of 25% chlorine bleach (e.g., Clorox®) and 75% water for 15 minutes. (Warning: Never use chlorine bleaches on sails of nylon or Kevlar® aramid - use only mild detergent and brush.) Rinse sail thoroughly with fresh water. Exposure to sunlight should fade any stain residues over time after the mildew is stopped. From North Sail If mildew occurs...Treat mildew at the earliest possible moment. If you do not, it can spread quickly. There is an excellent chance of getting mildew stains off when they are new, relatively small, and close to the surface. There is little chance once they have spread and set into the fibres. · Isolate mildew-infected sails, anchor lines, covers, and so forth, from clean sails. The quickest and surest way to spread mildew is to rub an existing growth against a receptive surface. · The single most popular mildew killer and remover is simple household bleach. This is also known as sodium hypochlorite, sold in the U.S. in 5.25% solution with water. This is potentially nasty stuff and manufacturers recommend diluting it quite a bit further before using. Tilex® and other "mildew removers" are mainly sodium hypochlorite in solutions of about 3%, which is still a pretty healthy dosage. · DO NOT use BLEACH (Sodium Hypochlorite) on KEVLAR® or NYLON, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! This is one of the few known, proven solvents for these fibres. We have seen people poke their fingers easily through spinnakers rinsed in chlorine-treated (same as bleach) swimming pools. Of course, this means you should not clean KEVLAR®® and nylon with Tilex® or other commercial mildew cleaners that contain sodium hypochlorite. · DO NOT EVER MIX BLEACH AND AMMONIA and stand around breathing the air. The result is phosgene gas which killed and disabled thousands in the First World War. This little home science experiment continues to kill and cripple people to this day. · For particularly stubborn, deep set stains, surface cleaning will not work. It is necessary to immerse the stain in a fungicide for 12 hours or more, to allow it to get in to where the stain is. It is not necessary to use a particularly high concentration, only to get the fungicide where the stain is. No amount of vigorous surface scrubbing will do what a good soak will do. · After washing with bleach, always rinse thoroughly with plenty of fresh water. Bleach that is not removed can cause long-term structural damage that is more harmful than the cosmetic damage caused by the mildew. · If the mildew stain does not come out after one good wash with the proper equipment and chemicals, give up. Experience shows that further washings/scourings/ treatments remove very little additional stain and cause a lot of other damage. · Scotchguard® and related water repellents do not have any properties that either kill or prevent the recurrence of mildew. They may be marginally effective at repelling some of the moisture and nutrients on which mildew feeds, and might make cleaning easier by holding the stains away from the fibres. There is not much evidence either way on this. · Dettol®, a commonly available household disinfectant, is the most powerful and effective fungicide and inhibitor you can use to prevent recurrence and spread of mildew. Various health and environmental agencies prohibit the use of stronger fungicides since the same thing that kills fungus has similar effects on higher life forms, as most of us would like to picture ourselves. · Anything you use on a sail to kill or remove mildew and stains, will wash or wear away in a relatively short time. This is directly analogous to anti-fouling bottom paints. North NorLam fabrics are treated with the most powerful commercial fungicide we can use without jeopardizing the health of employees and customers. It is 100% effective in preventing mildew in laboratory conditions, and demonstrably less effective in the real world. North is continuing to test alternative cleaners and inhibitors to see if they actually work, and what effect they might have on the integrity of sails. Finally, for people who prefer all-natural and biodegradable solutions, here are some more traditional anti-fungal measures copied from a Royal Navy handbook. We have not tested either of these recipes, so you might want to try them on a remote corner before doing the whole sail. One thing for sure, if you do this to your sail, mildew will probably be the farthest thing from your mind..."The sails of fishing-vessels are generally tanned : lightermen, etc., use the following composition to colour and preserve their sails, viz., horse grease and tar, mixed to a proper consistence, and coloured with red or yellow ochre, with which, when heated, the sails are payed over."The following method is also much approved, viz., the sail, being spread on the grass, is made thoroughly wet with sea-water, and then payed over, on both sides, with brown or red ochre mixed with sea-water to the consistence of cream, it is then well rubbed over, on both sides, with linseed oil. The sail may be used within 24 hours after being oiled.'
OK I'll follow that,,,,,,
Sounds like every thing you ever wanted to know about cleaning sails,,,,NEXT.
Sounds like every thing you ever wanted to know about cleaning sails,,,,NEXT.
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