I'm purchasing a new 473 and I'm struggling with the decision between the classic and furling main. All the new boats will come with a new furling main that includes small vertical battens along the leech that cuts the difference in sail area between the class ic main and the old furling main by half (i.e., the new furling main has about 8% less sail area than the classic instead of 16%). I'd like to race in Wednesday night PHRF but most of my sailing will be shorthanded weekend cruising and daysailing. Does anybody have experience with both sails on a 473? How big is the performance tradeoff?
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Jason
Roller Boom Furling
Roller boom is a better option. Full battens and the sail area will not be reduced. Also, less weight way up the mast makes for less rolling when the boat is at anchor. You will sleep better without all that movement at night...unless you like rolling...
Roller boom is a better option. Full battens and the sail area will not be reduced. Also, less weight way up the mast makes for less rolling when the boat is at anchor. You will sleep better without all that movement at night...unless you like rolling...
Have You Thought about a slide sytem?
Faced with this decision, for my new Beneteau 393, I have choosen to suppliment the classic sail with the addition of Lazy Jacks and a TidesMarine Sail Track Slide System (makes raising and reefing sails much easier). I get the racer satisfaction of being able to control the shape of my sail (I hear this can be done with a roller furling boom, but I was turned off by having a very heavy boom), and have something that isn't a struggle to raise, so I can sail more often short handed. I also am not too keen on having a roller furling system fail on me, and then not be able to get the sail back in. (also not an issue for a boom roller furling). That can be a real hassle if I am short handed. Dan
Faced with this decision, for my new Beneteau 393, I have choosen to suppliment the classic sail with the addition of Lazy Jacks and a TidesMarine Sail Track Slide System (makes raising and reefing sails much easier). I get the racer satisfaction of being able to control the shape of my sail (I hear this can be done with a roller furling boom, but I was turned off by having a very heavy boom), and have something that isn't a struggle to raise, so I can sail more often short handed. I also am not too keen on having a roller furling system fail on me, and then not be able to get the sail back in. (also not an issue for a boom roller furling). That can be a real hassle if I am short handed. Dan
M
Mike
what is the weight difference?
Unfortunately, in-boom furling is not an option. I would prefer that - I have not researched the cost of ordering the classic main and retrofitting a furling boom. Does anybody know the wieght difference between the classic and furling masts?
Unfortunately, in-boom furling is not an option. I would prefer that - I have not researched the cost of ordering the classic main and retrofitting a furling boom. Does anybody know the wieght difference between the classic and furling masts?
PHRF
Small point ... but I have noticed some committees allow for increasing the handicaps based on things like roller furling, type of keel, etc. so there should be no penalty on your racing if you furl or not ... still I prefer to be able to finely adjust my sail shape when racing.
Small point ... but I have noticed some committees allow for increasing the handicaps based on things like roller furling, type of keel, etc. so there should be no penalty on your racing if you furl or not ... still I prefer to be able to finely adjust my sail shape when racing.
options and upgrades
Thanks Dale and dwc - very helpful. It's interesting that neither of you selected the Max-prop upgrade that Beneteau offers and one of you upgraded to an Autoprop and one to the 3-bladed Martec. I've also ruled out the Max-prop and will most likely go with the 3-bladed Gori (although I'm also considering the Autoprop). How did the two of you decide on the Autoprop and Martec vs. other options? The options I'm ordering from Beneteau include: 75 hp Yanmar 3-cabin version teak and holly floor boards (I preferred Formica - my wife preferred the teak and holly) Durotouch cushions (worry free from the children) genneker gear (if I can confirm that both the halyard and tack line are led back to cockpit) winch upgrade for primaries bow thruster generator and a/c (concessions to my wife!) macerator pumps Blue stripe The "post production" upgrades that I'll install immediately are: feather or folding prop (most likely Gori but possibly Autprop) full canvas package Neil Pryde Asymmetric Spinnaker (w/ 165% LP and 1,360sf) Safety gear (I'll buy the items myself most likely - not the "safety package" from dealer) "standard" items and "boat show special" items include: radar/chart plotters in cockpit and nav station autopilot vhf w/ ram mike st60 instruments (wind and tridata in cockpit, mutifunction at nav station) stereo w/ cd changer radar randome on mast inverter with link 1000 electric windless furling main and shoal draft (the new furling mains have vertical battens and increase the sail area from 378sf to 415sf - while the classic main has 450sf) linens and bedcovers I'm going to research some of the other upgrades you've identified - but I'll probably wait on everything else until I start using the boat.
Thanks Dale and dwc - very helpful. It's interesting that neither of you selected the Max-prop upgrade that Beneteau offers and one of you upgraded to an Autoprop and one to the 3-bladed Martec. I've also ruled out the Max-prop and will most likely go with the 3-bladed Gori (although I'm also considering the Autoprop). How did the two of you decide on the Autoprop and Martec vs. other options? The options I'm ordering from Beneteau include: 75 hp Yanmar 3-cabin version teak and holly floor boards (I preferred Formica - my wife preferred the teak and holly) Durotouch cushions (worry free from the children) genneker gear (if I can confirm that both the halyard and tack line are led back to cockpit) winch upgrade for primaries bow thruster generator and a/c (concessions to my wife!) macerator pumps Blue stripe The "post production" upgrades that I'll install immediately are: feather or folding prop (most likely Gori but possibly Autprop) full canvas package Neil Pryde Asymmetric Spinnaker (w/ 165% LP and 1,360sf) Safety gear (I'll buy the items myself most likely - not the "safety package" from dealer) "standard" items and "boat show special" items include: radar/chart plotters in cockpit and nav station autopilot vhf w/ ram mike st60 instruments (wind and tridata in cockpit, mutifunction at nav station) stereo w/ cd changer radar randome on mast inverter with link 1000 electric windless furling main and shoal draft (the new furling mains have vertical battens and increase the sail area from 378sf to 415sf - while the classic main has 450sf) linens and bedcovers I'm going to research some of the other upgrades you've identified - but I'll probably wait on everything else until I start using the boat.
Questions for you Mike
In answer to your question about Autoprop - I like the added benefit it brings to motor sailing (easily 1/4 of the time I am motor sailing), I am not familiar with martec. Mike, question for you ... I would like to know why "Neil Pryde Asymmetric Spinnaker", Willis quoted me a Doyle Spinnaker, I have not reasearched the pros/cons of each, have you? Do you have some liturature on the Durotouch cushions, also not available to the 393. Mike, do you know anyone local to Huntington with the Geneker gear we can take a ride with? There are small details we both need to decide on before Willis customizes our B's. For example I hear its best not to lead the spin haylard back to the cockpit, I am told you are already at the mast should use a winch there, not sure if i agree/disagree. I probably have lots of options that most people add later, if ever, but some of the options are easier to do now rather then later (electrical stuff, Link 20, Tank Watch system, etc.).
In answer to your question about Autoprop - I like the added benefit it brings to motor sailing (easily 1/4 of the time I am motor sailing), I am not familiar with martec. Mike, question for you ... I would like to know why "Neil Pryde Asymmetric Spinnaker", Willis quoted me a Doyle Spinnaker, I have not reasearched the pros/cons of each, have you? Do you have some liturature on the Durotouch cushions, also not available to the 393. Mike, do you know anyone local to Huntington with the Geneker gear we can take a ride with? There are small details we both need to decide on before Willis customizes our B's. For example I hear its best not to lead the spin haylard back to the cockpit, I am told you are already at the mast should use a winch there, not sure if i agree/disagree. I probably have lots of options that most people add later, if ever, but some of the options are easier to do now rather then later (electrical stuff, Link 20, Tank Watch system, etc.).
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Rick I
Laminated Floors
Mike, Get the laminated floors. You'll never regret it. The wood floors have a furniture like finish that looks terrific but is impossible to maintain. They show little scratch or smudge.
Mike, Get the laminated floors. You'll never regret it. The wood floors have a furniture like finish that looks terrific but is impossible to maintain. They show little scratch or smudge.
floors, gennaker
I may go look at both floors again with my wife - they have two new boats in the yard - one with Formica and one with teak+holly. I only looked for asymetrical spinnakers. I got a quote from North and one from Neil Pryde. I corresponded with Bob Pattison at NP directly who works with Beneteau and is very familiar with the Ben line (and was very knowledgeable about the new vertical batten furling mains and had just completed a field test down at Beneteau). The NP sail was much less money and I really felt that Bob new the 473 extremely well, they make a-spinnakers for the Ben lines, and obviously know the standard sail plans better than anybody. This is why I went with NP. As for the gennaker gear, I already sent the dealer a note trying to get more specifics about all items (including sheets, twing lines, tack line, halyards along with their associated blocks, stoppers, and winches) and mounting locations. I'll ask if they have one we can see. If I'm just sailing with my wife, I'd rather be dealing with the setup and spinaker sock on the foredeck while my wife hoists the sail and trims the sheet from the cockpit. I suppose that one person can control the sail and the halyard from the foredeck. Anybody else have any thoughts about controlling the spinnaker halyard from the mast vs. the cockpit for short-handed sailing? The duratouch won't stain or wear - Ben only offers the white - see this link ...http://www.scalisemarine.com/duratouch.htm
I may go look at both floors again with my wife - they have two new boats in the yard - one with Formica and one with teak+holly. I only looked for asymetrical spinnakers. I got a quote from North and one from Neil Pryde. I corresponded with Bob Pattison at NP directly who works with Beneteau and is very familiar with the Ben line (and was very knowledgeable about the new vertical batten furling mains and had just completed a field test down at Beneteau). The NP sail was much less money and I really felt that Bob new the 473 extremely well, they make a-spinnakers for the Ben lines, and obviously know the standard sail plans better than anybody. This is why I went with NP. As for the gennaker gear, I already sent the dealer a note trying to get more specifics about all items (including sheets, twing lines, tack line, halyards along with their associated blocks, stoppers, and winches) and mounting locations. I'll ask if they have one we can see. If I'm just sailing with my wife, I'd rather be dealing with the setup and spinaker sock on the foredeck while my wife hoists the sail and trims the sheet from the cockpit. I suppose that one person can control the sail and the halyard from the foredeck. Anybody else have any thoughts about controlling the spinnaker halyard from the mast vs. the cockpit for short-handed sailing? The duratouch won't stain or wear - Ben only offers the white - see this link ...http://www.scalisemarine.com/duratouch.htm
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Barron Smith
Classic vs Furling
I like, and chose the classic on my 361. Regardless of which you choose, you have to either winch it up, or winch it in and out. I like having the additional sail area, better sail shape and consistently wax the other 361's with the furling main. I have heard people say however that the classic main reduces resale value .... bah humbug!
I like, and chose the classic on my 361. Regardless of which you choose, you have to either winch it up, or winch it in and out. I like having the additional sail area, better sail shape and consistently wax the other 361's with the furling main. I have heard people say however that the classic main reduces resale value .... bah humbug!
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Liam
Love Furling Main
I really like the furling main. My Beneteau 331 sails so well that I don't think that it really would make too much difference if I had a classic main. Most of the drive comes from the genoa anyway. The other thing is that once I really learned how to use the loose footed main well, even though I have lost some square footage, I can really get a great wing shape on the main and that makes the genoa drive even better because the "slot" is nearly perfect. I honestly and easily sail right by Catalinas, Hunters and most everything else with classic main sails. If I were ordering the same boat again I would definately still get the furling main. My wife is 5'2" and weighs 100 pounds. She has no problem handling the main or reefing. Good luck with your new boat. Liam.
I really like the furling main. My Beneteau 331 sails so well that I don't think that it really would make too much difference if I had a classic main. Most of the drive comes from the genoa anyway. The other thing is that once I really learned how to use the loose footed main well, even though I have lost some square footage, I can really get a great wing shape on the main and that makes the genoa drive even better because the "slot" is nearly perfect. I honestly and easily sail right by Catalinas, Hunters and most everything else with classic main sails. If I were ordering the same boat again I would definately still get the furling main. My wife is 5'2" and weighs 100 pounds. She has no problem handling the main or reefing. Good luck with your new boat. Liam.
beneteau 473 gennaker gear option
This is the list of items included with the factory gennaker gear option: • 1 Genneker halyard with 1 Lewmar size 3 single masthead block and 1 Z Spar deck collar block. • 1 Wichard pad eye installed on the bow (for tack line block). • 1 Genneker tack line with Lewmar size 3 single block - single block attaches to pad eye on bow - tack line tied-off on mooring cleat. • 2 Genneker sheets with 2 Lewmar size 3 single blocks - single blocks attach to wichard pad eye supplied standard on deck (1 port, 1 stbd). • 1 Single jammer on starboard side of coachroof for genneker halyard.
This is the list of items included with the factory gennaker gear option: • 1 Genneker halyard with 1 Lewmar size 3 single masthead block and 1 Z Spar deck collar block. • 1 Wichard pad eye installed on the bow (for tack line block). • 1 Genneker tack line with Lewmar size 3 single block - single block attaches to pad eye on bow - tack line tied-off on mooring cleat. • 2 Genneker sheets with 2 Lewmar size 3 single blocks - single blocks attach to wichard pad eye supplied standard on deck (1 port, 1 stbd). • 1 Single jammer on starboard side of coachroof for genneker halyard.
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