Civilization

[Parsons]

//rant// Sorry, I cannot bring myself to criticize the aesthetics of other people's livelihood. If crews and hospitality folks can make a few bucks by safely hauling 3,000 pasty-white butts around and giving them unlimited buffets and drinks, more power to them. I pay my bills working for an old-style smokestack industry, and will continue to eat well into my retirement based on that industry, so I cannot throw stones. I doubt anyone with a boat can truly say they don't negatively impact the world in order to pay for their hobbies, or offend the sensibilities of their neighbors. //end rant//

 

[Jackdaw]

//rant// Sorry, I cannot bring myself to criticize the aesthetics of other people's livelihood. If crews and hospitality folks can make a few bucks by safely hauling 3,000 pasty-white butts around and giving them unlimited buffets and drinks, more power to them. I pay my bills working for an old-style smokestack industry, and will continue to eat well into my retirement based on that industry, so I cannot throw stones. I doubt anyone with a boat can truly say they don't negatively impact the world in order to pay for their hobbies, or offend the sensibilities of their neighbors. //end rant//

A totally valid point and in general I agree. But in this particular case I’m gonna make an exception. The sheer scale of these things has many adverse effects. Places are actually starting to ban them, or limit their access. Imagine having a hotel room on the canal in Venice, and then waking up and finding the sun blotted out by one of these monsters.

In smaller towns, the influx of the thousands at once change the immediate dynamics of village life that effects not only the quality of life in the town, but also the desirability of the original tourism model.

 

[capta]

We had 2 (possibly 2k passengers each) in the Bay here in Bequia when we arrived yesterday.
All the passengers were directed not to bring money ashore and that they could walk to the beach via the Belmont Walkway. None of the locals made money and all the yachties terribly inconvenienced when we needed to come into "our" dinghy dock (it was built for yacht dinghies, not cruise ship tenders) to clear customs. Last season the cruise ship tenders damaged the dinghy dock very badly and it took the government over half a year to fix it.
I know the governments are making somewhere in the 5 digits for each cruise ship and in many cases if any of it got back to the people in the way of services (like repairing the dinghy dock), it might be worth it, but most seems to disappear into thin air (or politicians pockets?).
And sending passengers ashore with no money in a safe place like Bequia under the guise of safety is just plain criminal. Bequia may be the safest place in the Caribbean, if not the world, for crying out loud!
Our guests spend several days staying on and getting to know on the islands at each end of our Taste of Sailing charters, and we are really proud of that. They don't just fly in, board the boat, sail around then disembark for the airport. The half board charters likewise help the locals. We feel a part of the island economy, not just users and takers.
But with these big behemoths, it's like they require their customers to spend their money aboard and screw the people in the places that are the reason most of their passengers are even there. There is enough money there so everyone could get a small share. But that ain't the world of today, is it?

 

[AlastairLC]

canal in Venice

The dredging they had to do to allow cruise boat navigation is causing Venice to sink.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

There is no end to class warfare. For most of us, it may be increasingly difficult to find sanctuary away from the unwashed. But true elitists do create their own sanctuaries, where they are not bothered like the rest of us!

 

[Gunni]

On the islands that have decided to cater to the cruise-ship business you can find cruise ship schedules on line, and pretty effectively avoid the days when the circus brings 5,000 tour-ons to the island. Getting harder and harder to avoid them on the more popular Caribbean islands.

 

[Jackdaw]

There is no end to class warfare. For most of us, it may be increasingly difficult to find sanctuary away from the unwashed. But true elitists do create their own sanctuaries, where they are not bothered like the rest of us!

I don’t think this is about class warfare at all. I would imagine that a large percentage of cruise takers make more money than I do. It’s about how we live and value our experiences. I prefer to achieve them, some people like to be driven there in a bus.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I don’t think this is about class warfare at all. I would imagine that a large percentage of cruise takers make more money than I do. It’s about how we live and value our experiences. I prefer to achieve them, some people like to be driven there in a bus.

Class warfare comes in many forms and it doesn't have to be purely economic. We sailors tend to think of ourselves as far superior to all sorts of people. Obviously, if you listen to anything in this forum, we think we are far superior to power boat owners, most of whom spend far more on their aquatic pursuits than we do. It's the disrespectful terms that we use that give us away.
BTW, it's normal and none of us are immune or above it. That's why I say there is no end to it.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

We even have our own little sub-groups. When I watch some of these sailing v-blogs, I can't help but notice the swarms of sailboats that fill up the anchorages and the complaints about lack of anchorage space and the fact that mooring balls are expensive and hard to find. You can't tell me that there isn't a whole lot of disdain for the charter boat crowd among our own ranks!

 

[Jackdaw]

Class warfare comes in many forms and it doesn't have to be purely economic. We sailors tend to think of ourselves as far superior to all sorts of people. Obviously, if you listen to anything in this forum, we think we are far superior to power boat owners, most of whom spend far more on their aquatic pursuits than we do. It's the disrespectful terms that we use that give us away.
BTW, it's normal and none of us are immune or above it. That's why I say there is no end to it.

Again, I don’t think this is about class, it’s about the unintended consequences of scale.

To help make both of our points, right now I’m staying at a resort on the Mayan Riviera the size of a small city. Completely walled and self-contained, none of the riches that are spent here by the thousands of people are shared with the local villages. there is a small seaside village 5 km up the road that sees none of this effect unless someone escapes from the place to go get a real Mexican experience. we chose it because it was convenient cheap and easy.. but we did escape yesterday, and I have a very clear I am what I missing by being here , and what the effects of this place are.

Escape.

 

[sailnoproblem]

Class warfare comes in many forms and it doesn't have to be purely economic. We sailors tend to think of ourselves as far superior to all sorts of people. Obviously, if you listen to anything in this forum, we think we are far superior to power boat owners, most of whom spend far more on their aquatic pursuits than we do. It's the disrespectful terms that we use that give us away.
BTW, it's normal and none of us are immune or above it. That's why I say there is no end to it.

Scott I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Class warfare may never end, but like Bob Dylan says … "Gotta Serve Somebody". That pretty much sums up that we may as well all get along!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Sailors are a very unique breed of people. I'll give you that! We have to really be driven to devote so much of ourselves to a single pursuit, get in a small boat, sail across seas and oceans, just to arrive at some island that we think is a version of paradise. In reality, many of these places are hardscrabble and impoverished. We relish the 'culture', blind ourselves to the obvious truth that there is an element of desperation in the poverty. Then we resent that hordes of people effortlessly arrive on these cruise ships, simply because they also seek some escape to 'paradise', thus ruining the entire concept. In the meantime, the cruise ship customers look at the sailors, in their scraggly appearance, threadbare t-shirts, shorts and flip-flops (you know, 'the uniform'), riding around in dinghies looking for a laundromat or a place to find water, and wonder 'what in the hell are they doing in those woebegone boats?!'

In the meantime, the locals live with, and welcome, this circus because they need the gringo's dollars. It matters not if it is a cruising couple that meters out a little of what they have in their boat budget, or if there is a swarm of tourists from the cruise ships that just spend, say, $10 or $15 bucks each on some trinkets, snacks and beach drinks. They need it to survive, so they don't discriminate.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Escape.

We all need a little bit of that! My daughter lives in Cerritos Beach, Baja California Sur to escape from Montana during the off-seasons. Her place is a little small so we'll stay at the Surf Colony Resort and drink margaritas at the pool!