Peggie, I am in the third season with my Humter 306 ...... Jabsco head. We have a recurring problem that needs some explanation.We have had several instances of the toilet bowl collecting water when heeling and even not pumping totally dry when in the slip. Dealer has replaced the "choker valve" twice ...saying it has deteriorated. We got the boat late 2002 so we really only have a season and a half on her. We are careful what we put in the head ...only waste ...we do not flush toilet paper.We accepted the expanation once but now we are suspect.What would be causing these valves to deteriorate so quickly ??? We use holding tank treatment as directed ...four ounces in the bowl followed by a gallon of fresh water. After the first treatment this season the unit makes a terrible screaching noise when we flush and this past weekend we had the above trouble recur fot at least the third time. Waste seems to be backing into the bowl before the holding tank is full. What is the problem ????????????Does holding tank treatment ruin these valves ??? Dealer says we are on our own and Hunter has "no comment". Sincerely , Rob Anderson
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Buy Peggie's Book
from the chandlery on this site. You just have to get more familiar with marine heads than you ever wanted to. Here book will get you there and is the only definitive one on the subject. If you use the boat a lot you might need a joker valve once or twice a year. It is a five minute fix. As to the screeching sound, the head pump is dry. Once or twice a year, you need to unscrew the pump shaft at the top of the pomp and lubricate it with a teflon grease. See the plastic nut around the shaft on the top of the pump? That's what I am referring to. Peggie would tell you once a year but I find a well-used Jabsco needs it more often. Ultimately, you may want to change the head, but they all will require maintenance. Your dealer is right (in the wrong way) in that this is just a part of boat ownership and a regular maintenance item (ugh) that you get used to. Good luck. Rick D.
from the chandlery on this site. You just have to get more familiar with marine heads than you ever wanted to. Here book will get you there and is the only definitive one on the subject. If you use the boat a lot you might need a joker valve once or twice a year. It is a five minute fix. As to the screeching sound, the head pump is dry. Once or twice a year, you need to unscrew the pump shaft at the top of the pomp and lubricate it with a teflon grease. See the plastic nut around the shaft on the top of the pump? That's what I am referring to. Peggie would tell you once a year but I find a well-used Jabsco needs it more often. Ultimately, you may want to change the head, but they all will require maintenance. Your dealer is right (in the wrong way) in that this is just a part of boat ownership and a regular maintenance item (ugh) that you get used to. Good luck. Rick D.
Joker valve has nothing to do with any of it
The first thing you need to understand is that a marine toilet has nothing in common with a household toilet except the bowl and . Household toilets last for decades with -0- maintenance because they have no moving parts...marine toilets are pumps with parts in 'em that wear out and require replacement every few years--more often if the pump isn't kept well lubricated--and one or two parts that should be replaced at least every other year if not annually. Your toilet is screeching because it desperately needs lubrication...what you're hearing is sound of the rubber seals and o-rings in the pump scraping against the inside of the pump cylinder. All toilets leave the factory leave the factory slathered with a thick synthetic teflon grease that lasts about a year, maybe two, depending upon how much use the toilets gets...but it doesn't last forever. The source of the water in the bowl while heeled and even in the slip is the head intake (the joker valve, btw, is in the head discharge fitting). There's a lever on the pump that switches from "wet" to "dry"...in the wet mode, the toilet can pull in flush water through the intake...the dry mode blocks the flow of flush water. Because your toilet is below the boat's waterline, when it's in the wet mode, there's nothing to prevent water outside the boat from seeking its own level inside the boat (rising in the bowl) while sitting, or water from being pushed up the intake hose into the bowl while underway. If the bowl fills in the dry mode, it means that the wet/dry valve (the little "gate" inside the pump that swings to open or block the flow of flush water)is failing--a VERY common problem in Jabsco toilets made in the last 5 years--and must be replaced. But since relying on a wet/dry valve--and remembering to always leave it in the dry position--to keep water outside the boat from seeking its own level inside the boat, I strongly recommend that you install a vented loop in the head intake. It won't prevent water from being forced up the head intake while underway, but it will prevent water from rising in the bowl while the boat is sitting and even possibly sinking your boat in the slip while no one is aboard to notice that the bowl is overflowing. Several things can cause waste to back up into the bowl: a blocked tank vent can pressurize the tank, creating backpressure that prevents waste from going into it...sea water mineral buildup in the head discharge hose can reduce the diameter of it, restricting the flow of waste through it...or if there's even a slight uphill run in the discharge hose, anything left in the hose due to incomplete flushing will run back downhill into the bowl. And while a brand new joker valve can block it completely for the first dozen or so flushes, waste--even just urine and flush water--going through it gradually stretches the slit, preventing it from blocking slow seepage. It'll block a real flood--which is all it's ever supposed to do--until it becomes so worn that the slit is no longer a slit but an open hole, but a joker valve can't block slow seepage and isn't supposed to. So the joker valve isn't responsible for ANY of your problems. What is causing all of them is a lack of knowledge about how a manual marine toilet works and what it needs, resulting in a lack of maintenance and lubrication...incomplete flushing and possible lack of any understanding of how to use the wet/dry function--and MAYBE a failing wet/dry valve...a 50-50 chance that your holding tank vent may be blocked, or at least partially blocked. The link to my book that explains all this in much more detail--and how to prevent problems as well as cure 'em (prevention is SOOOO much easier)) is below.
The first thing you need to understand is that a marine toilet has nothing in common with a household toilet except the bowl and . Household toilets last for decades with -0- maintenance because they have no moving parts...marine toilets are pumps with parts in 'em that wear out and require replacement every few years--more often if the pump isn't kept well lubricated--and one or two parts that should be replaced at least every other year if not annually. Your toilet is screeching because it desperately needs lubrication...what you're hearing is sound of the rubber seals and o-rings in the pump scraping against the inside of the pump cylinder. All toilets leave the factory leave the factory slathered with a thick synthetic teflon grease that lasts about a year, maybe two, depending upon how much use the toilets gets...but it doesn't last forever. The source of the water in the bowl while heeled and even in the slip is the head intake (the joker valve, btw, is in the head discharge fitting). There's a lever on the pump that switches from "wet" to "dry"...in the wet mode, the toilet can pull in flush water through the intake...the dry mode blocks the flow of flush water. Because your toilet is below the boat's waterline, when it's in the wet mode, there's nothing to prevent water outside the boat from seeking its own level inside the boat (rising in the bowl) while sitting, or water from being pushed up the intake hose into the bowl while underway. If the bowl fills in the dry mode, it means that the wet/dry valve (the little "gate" inside the pump that swings to open or block the flow of flush water)is failing--a VERY common problem in Jabsco toilets made in the last 5 years--and must be replaced. But since relying on a wet/dry valve--and remembering to always leave it in the dry position--to keep water outside the boat from seeking its own level inside the boat, I strongly recommend that you install a vented loop in the head intake. It won't prevent water from being forced up the head intake while underway, but it will prevent water from rising in the bowl while the boat is sitting and even possibly sinking your boat in the slip while no one is aboard to notice that the bowl is overflowing. Several things can cause waste to back up into the bowl: a blocked tank vent can pressurize the tank, creating backpressure that prevents waste from going into it...sea water mineral buildup in the head discharge hose can reduce the diameter of it, restricting the flow of waste through it...or if there's even a slight uphill run in the discharge hose, anything left in the hose due to incomplete flushing will run back downhill into the bowl. And while a brand new joker valve can block it completely for the first dozen or so flushes, waste--even just urine and flush water--going through it gradually stretches the slit, preventing it from blocking slow seepage. It'll block a real flood--which is all it's ever supposed to do--until it becomes so worn that the slit is no longer a slit but an open hole, but a joker valve can't block slow seepage and isn't supposed to. So the joker valve isn't responsible for ANY of your problems. What is causing all of them is a lack of knowledge about how a manual marine toilet works and what it needs, resulting in a lack of maintenance and lubrication...incomplete flushing and possible lack of any understanding of how to use the wet/dry function--and MAYBE a failing wet/dry valve...a 50-50 chance that your holding tank vent may be blocked, or at least partially blocked. The link to my book that explains all this in much more detail--and how to prevent problems as well as cure 'em (prevention is SOOOO much easier)) is below.
Rob -- You "..do not flush toilet paper" ?
Wow. Now THAT is a pain in the a** to have to do. I have been boating for decades and I have never had to do that. At least when I use a simple inexpensive 1 ply toilet paper from the supermarket. ( and all I have is a simple cheapo Jabsco head ) Here is an experiment for you. Take a couple of sheets of cheap 1 ply toilet paper and put it in a glass of water, let it sit for a few minutes and shake it or stir up. You will see that it quickly desintegrates before your eyes and you'd have a hard time even pulling a solid piece out. As for waste backing up into your head -- (other than your holding tank is overfull) Then there is something wrong with the way the head & holding tank is set up in your system. Is the holding tank higher up than the bottom of your bowl??? 5 years on my cheapo Jabsco head and I haven't had to replace the joker valve.
Wow. Now THAT is a pain in the a** to have to do. I have been boating for decades and I have never had to do that. At least when I use a simple inexpensive 1 ply toilet paper from the supermarket. ( and all I have is a simple cheapo Jabsco head ) Here is an experiment for you. Take a couple of sheets of cheap 1 ply toilet paper and put it in a glass of water, let it sit for a few minutes and shake it or stir up. You will see that it quickly desintegrates before your eyes and you'd have a hard time even pulling a solid piece out. As for waste backing up into your head -- (other than your holding tank is overfull) Then there is something wrong with the way the head & holding tank is set up in your system. Is the holding tank higher up than the bottom of your bowl??? 5 years on my cheapo Jabsco head and I haven't had to replace the joker valve.
You're right...and it's not because they HAVE to..
Any marine toilet can easily handle limited amounts of quick-dissolve TP, but because people are afraid to flush it because they've been told not to by people who've also been told not to by people who may or may not have actually heard any horror stories from anyone who's flushed the wrong kind either, but have been told... Nobody actually knows anyone whose toilet or holding tank discharge has actually been clogged by quick-dissolve TP...it can't be done. Even if a too much at a time creates a clog, it dissolves so quickly that the clog will "melt" on its own in under 30 minutes. But it does take plenty of blame for clogs caused by everything else that shouldn't have gone down the toilet and failures due to lack of maintenance. As for your joker valve...there's more reason to replace it every year or two in ALL toilets, electric as well as manual--than just preventing backup into the bowl...the joker valve blocks odor from inside the head discharge hose from escaping into the bowl...prevents a clog from causing an eruption in the bowl, etc...but only as long as slit remains a slit. Once the slit in a joker valve is worn enough to turn into an open hole, the joker valve becomes so useless it might as well not even be there. There doesn't have to be anything wrong with the head/holding system design for backup into the bowl to occur either. In fact, on sailboats, 99% of holding tank inlet fittings are above the level of the toilet discharge...Runback happens when the toilet isn't flushed long enough in the dry mode to move the bowl contents all the way to the tank, or over the top of any vented loop.
Any marine toilet can easily handle limited amounts of quick-dissolve TP, but because people are afraid to flush it because they've been told not to by people who've also been told not to by people who may or may not have actually heard any horror stories from anyone who's flushed the wrong kind either, but have been told... Nobody actually knows anyone whose toilet or holding tank discharge has actually been clogged by quick-dissolve TP...it can't be done. Even if a too much at a time creates a clog, it dissolves so quickly that the clog will "melt" on its own in under 30 minutes. But it does take plenty of blame for clogs caused by everything else that shouldn't have gone down the toilet and failures due to lack of maintenance. As for your joker valve...there's more reason to replace it every year or two in ALL toilets, electric as well as manual--than just preventing backup into the bowl...the joker valve blocks odor from inside the head discharge hose from escaping into the bowl...prevents a clog from causing an eruption in the bowl, etc...but only as long as slit remains a slit. Once the slit in a joker valve is worn enough to turn into an open hole, the joker valve becomes so useless it might as well not even be there. There doesn't have to be anything wrong with the head/holding system design for backup into the bowl to occur either. In fact, on sailboats, 99% of holding tank inlet fittings are above the level of the toilet discharge...Runback happens when the toilet isn't flushed long enough in the dry mode to move the bowl contents all the way to the tank, or over the top of any vented loop.
Peggy FYI The Catalina 36MKII Holding tank
inlet fittings are definitely below the toilet discharge. (I think I mentioned it before -- I know not all the Catalina's are though)
inlet fittings are definitely below the toilet discharge. (I think I mentioned it before -- I know not all the Catalina's are though)
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