I have just purchased a 1977 Hunter 25 and I have been reading the articles in your forum and see a lot of reference to the Cherubini-style Hunter. What exactly is the signifigance of this and how do I tell if mine is that style? My boat looks exactly like the "Velero" that is in your picture section. TIA Craig Author: Edit this post
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It's a Cherubini
Congratulations, you are the proud owner of a Cherubini designed Hunter 25. There were two early Hunter 25 designs: the Bob Seidelmann/John Cherubini design which has the Cabin Overhead sloping from it max height at the aft bulkhead to join smoothly with the deck at the forward end; and, the box top design which is the total Cherubini design. According to John Cherubini II and I quote "the H25 was designed over the period of spring-summer 1972 and the boats first production year was 1973." I believe the article this came should be in the archive files of this forum. At any rate, the Cherubini designed Hunters existed, in production from 1973 to 1982/1983. The original H25 was quickly followed by the H30 and the by the H27 in 1974. Correct me if I am wrong John II. I would like to add the comment on the specification sheet that was made by John Sr. regarding the H25. "We designed the Hunter 25 to be the ideal small cruiser ... lots of room, solid displacement for a steady helm, and performance good enough to win at the club." John Allison s/v Whisper a Cherubini designed H25
Congratulations, you are the proud owner of a Cherubini designed Hunter 25. There were two early Hunter 25 designs: the Bob Seidelmann/John Cherubini design which has the Cabin Overhead sloping from it max height at the aft bulkhead to join smoothly with the deck at the forward end; and, the box top design which is the total Cherubini design. According to John Cherubini II and I quote "the H25 was designed over the period of spring-summer 1972 and the boats first production year was 1973." I believe the article this came should be in the archive files of this forum. At any rate, the Cherubini designed Hunters existed, in production from 1973 to 1982/1983. The original H25 was quickly followed by the H30 and the by the H27 in 1974. Correct me if I am wrong John II. I would like to add the comment on the specification sheet that was made by John Sr. regarding the H25. "We designed the Hunter 25 to be the ideal small cruiser ... lots of room, solid displacement for a steady helm, and performance good enough to win at the club." John Allison s/v Whisper a Cherubini designed H25
Well said John
Craig, To follow Johns response, You'll find the owners of the Cherubini designed Hunters are an interesting bunch. We all own boats that are approx. 20 years old so we tend to be budget minded fixer uppers, who have discovered that our old Hunters have an impressive pedigree. Despite some of Hunters quality control issues, few critics in the boating community have anything bad to say about the Cherubini designed Hunters. If you'll send me an e-mail, I'll send you back an artical giving a little more info on the Cherubini story. Don Bodemann sailbode@gis.net
Craig, To follow Johns response, You'll find the owners of the Cherubini designed Hunters are an interesting bunch. We all own boats that are approx. 20 years old so we tend to be budget minded fixer uppers, who have discovered that our old Hunters have an impressive pedigree. Despite some of Hunters quality control issues, few critics in the boating community have anything bad to say about the Cherubini designed Hunters. If you'll send me an e-mail, I'll send you back an artical giving a little more info on the Cherubini story. Don Bodemann sailbode@gis.net
Cherubini design vs. construction quality
Over the past few years I have been following the Cherubini Hunter discussions with growing uneasiness. Whereas I am an admirer of the beauty and potential sailing performance of Cherubini designs I fail to see the often inferred connection between vessel design and construction quality. Even assuming that Mr. Cherubini specified his designs down to the exact dimensions and locations of scantlings and glass plies AND that such design details were blithely implemented by Hunter, the real construction quality of any fiberglass yacht is primarily a function of fabrication and quality control procedures on the factory floor rather than of inspiration on the drawing board. Moreover, one or two decades after its original launching the seaworthiness of any sailing vessel has inevitably become a function of the level of maintenance and systematic upgrading. Last week we hauled out Rivendel II, our Hunter Legend 43 (hull #1)in Port Vila, Vanuatu, and were grateful to see that there was no sign of blistering after 12 years (8 of which in tropical waters) and nearly 40,000 NM, that the underwater appendages as well as decks, cabin roof and major fiberglass molds (cockpit, transom, heads) appear to be in good shape and that mast, boom, compression post and pedestal are holding up quite well. Pretty much everything else has already been replaced once or even twice or is slated to be replaced within the near future. Such are the practical realities of maintaining the seaworthiness of a sailing vessel. None of this has anything to do with the original design of the vessel. Again, I see nothing wrong with the Cherubini spinmeister game if that can add a few dollar to the resale value of an older Hunter. To imply, however, that "the quality" of todays Cherubinis is inherently better than that of other Hunters is a potentially dangerous delusion as it may take attention away from the real issues defining quality, seaworthiness and, ultimately, safety at sea. Flying Dutchman
Over the past few years I have been following the Cherubini Hunter discussions with growing uneasiness. Whereas I am an admirer of the beauty and potential sailing performance of Cherubini designs I fail to see the often inferred connection between vessel design and construction quality. Even assuming that Mr. Cherubini specified his designs down to the exact dimensions and locations of scantlings and glass plies AND that such design details were blithely implemented by Hunter, the real construction quality of any fiberglass yacht is primarily a function of fabrication and quality control procedures on the factory floor rather than of inspiration on the drawing board. Moreover, one or two decades after its original launching the seaworthiness of any sailing vessel has inevitably become a function of the level of maintenance and systematic upgrading. Last week we hauled out Rivendel II, our Hunter Legend 43 (hull #1)in Port Vila, Vanuatu, and were grateful to see that there was no sign of blistering after 12 years (8 of which in tropical waters) and nearly 40,000 NM, that the underwater appendages as well as decks, cabin roof and major fiberglass molds (cockpit, transom, heads) appear to be in good shape and that mast, boom, compression post and pedestal are holding up quite well. Pretty much everything else has already been replaced once or even twice or is slated to be replaced within the near future. Such are the practical realities of maintaining the seaworthiness of a sailing vessel. None of this has anything to do with the original design of the vessel. Again, I see nothing wrong with the Cherubini spinmeister game if that can add a few dollar to the resale value of an older Hunter. To imply, however, that "the quality" of todays Cherubinis is inherently better than that of other Hunters is a potentially dangerous delusion as it may take attention away from the real issues defining quality, seaworthiness and, ultimately, safety at sea. Flying Dutchman
Reply to Henk's comments
Henk was right on target with his comments separating design from actual production, and then maintance. I do, however, question the idea that Cherubini owners are spinmeisters looking to increase the boat's resale value. Speaking for myself, a large part of choosing my 82 H27 was, simply, it looked like a sailboat. After the Cedar Point (Ohio) show last weekend where I looked at a Tartan, Hunter's, Beneteau, C&C's, and Batavia, my lack of excitement of "Startrek" designs with motorhome interiors remains. They are probably all very good sailing craft in construction and perfomance but they do not reflect "heritage" of sailing craft which, as a historian, is important to me. Yes, there are boats I would rather own, but given limited resources our Hunter is an acceptable compromise. I am guilty of singing the praises of the Cherubini designs on this list but I wanted to make it clear that there a many reasons for doing this and that, even in America 2002, not everyone thinks of money first. Andy "Baroque"
Henk was right on target with his comments separating design from actual production, and then maintance. I do, however, question the idea that Cherubini owners are spinmeisters looking to increase the boat's resale value. Speaking for myself, a large part of choosing my 82 H27 was, simply, it looked like a sailboat. After the Cedar Point (Ohio) show last weekend where I looked at a Tartan, Hunter's, Beneteau, C&C's, and Batavia, my lack of excitement of "Startrek" designs with motorhome interiors remains. They are probably all very good sailing craft in construction and perfomance but they do not reflect "heritage" of sailing craft which, as a historian, is important to me. Yes, there are boats I would rather own, but given limited resources our Hunter is an acceptable compromise. I am guilty of singing the praises of the Cherubini designs on this list but I wanted to make it clear that there a many reasons for doing this and that, even in America 2002, not everyone thinks of money first. Andy "Baroque"
Well said Henk.
Hunter has only gotten better at 'making' boats over the years. As far as the design is concerned, they have continued to sell more and more boats. Others have folded but Hunter continues to survive & grow. I think all of us will agree that we may or may not like the "LOOKS" of some of the new designs but their construction techniques have continued to improve throughout the years. The same person that determined the fiberglass used to build a hull in the 70's and 80's is still the same person who does so today. This is not to say that every once in a while that they do not have a problem with a hull or some other part. The new interiors are so superior to anything that they have built from their beginning. They are now built by a computer controlled systems. I have owned a Hunter-Cherubini and loved it. But I also love my '85 H'31.
Hunter has only gotten better at 'making' boats over the years. As far as the design is concerned, they have continued to sell more and more boats. Others have folded but Hunter continues to survive & grow. I think all of us will agree that we may or may not like the "LOOKS" of some of the new designs but their construction techniques have continued to improve throughout the years. The same person that determined the fiberglass used to build a hull in the 70's and 80's is still the same person who does so today. This is not to say that every once in a while that they do not have a problem with a hull or some other part. The new interiors are so superior to anything that they have built from their beginning. They are now built by a computer controlled systems. I have owned a Hunter-Cherubini and loved it. But I also love my '85 H'31.
Cherubini
Great comments Andy. Hunter is still in business because it knows how to build and market an inexpensive boat, but so do Beneteau, Catalina, Macgregor and Jenneau.
Great comments Andy. Hunter is still in business because it knows how to build and market an inexpensive boat, but so do Beneteau, Catalina, Macgregor and Jenneau.
Henk?
Henk's lengthy response to Craigs question strikes me as just a little nasty from a fellow Hunter owner as well as off topic. Craig asked if his 25 was a Cherubini designed boat to which John and I responded with afirmation and yes, a little of the typical Cherubini horn blowing. Neither of us indicated a superior quality over the newer Hunters or any other manufacturer. I did mention poor quality control on the Cherubini Hunters themselves!! The designer and most of his designs have a reputation that we are proud of. If the newer designs don't have this type of reputation and I'm not saying they don't, it's not our fault. I have been following thisw forum since it's inception and I don't recall any Cherubini fans ever bashing the newer Hunters. Don Bodemann
Henk's lengthy response to Craigs question strikes me as just a little nasty from a fellow Hunter owner as well as off topic. Craig asked if his 25 was a Cherubini designed boat to which John and I responded with afirmation and yes, a little of the typical Cherubini horn blowing. Neither of us indicated a superior quality over the newer Hunters or any other manufacturer. I did mention poor quality control on the Cherubini Hunters themselves!! The designer and most of his designs have a reputation that we are proud of. If the newer designs don't have this type of reputation and I'm not saying they don't, it's not our fault. I have been following thisw forum since it's inception and I don't recall any Cherubini fans ever bashing the newer Hunters. Don Bodemann
Don !
Quoting from your first post under this topic: "Despite some of Hunters quality control issues, few critics in the boating community have anything bad to say about the Cherubini designed Hunters". Clearly, the issue -- as defined by YOU here -- is one of quality control and the inference is that there is a notable difference in quality control between the Cherubini-designed Hunters and other Hunters. Not only does this make very little sense to me (for the reasons stated) but it would seem to meet your own criteria for "nastiness". Thus, my first response...... Flying Dutchman
Quoting from your first post under this topic: "Despite some of Hunters quality control issues, few critics in the boating community have anything bad to say about the Cherubini designed Hunters". Clearly, the issue -- as defined by YOU here -- is one of quality control and the inference is that there is a notable difference in quality control between the Cherubini-designed Hunters and other Hunters. Not only does this make very little sense to me (for the reasons stated) but it would seem to meet your own criteria for "nastiness". Thus, my first response...... Flying Dutchman
Misunderstood
OK Henk, I see how you could have misunderstood my statement. Hunter made the Cherubini boats so that's why I said "despite Hunters quality control issues" and not Cherubini's or Cherubini Hunter's quality control issues. The inference was that there was a quality control issue in how the Cherubini boats were made (by Hunter) and despite this, the boats still have a good reputation. Not intentionally implying a contrast to newer Hunters. I have nothing against the new Hunters. I don't own one so I seldom think about them. In fact, I would agree that todays Hunters are probably put together a little better than our old Cherubini boats. Did anyone else following this discussion think I was contrasting Cherubini Hunters vs newer Hunters? If so, sorry gang, not what I meant.
OK Henk, I see how you could have misunderstood my statement. Hunter made the Cherubini boats so that's why I said "despite Hunters quality control issues" and not Cherubini's or Cherubini Hunter's quality control issues. The inference was that there was a quality control issue in how the Cherubini boats were made (by Hunter) and despite this, the boats still have a good reputation. Not intentionally implying a contrast to newer Hunters. I have nothing against the new Hunters. I don't own one so I seldom think about them. In fact, I would agree that todays Hunters are probably put together a little better than our old Cherubini boats. Did anyone else following this discussion think I was contrasting Cherubini Hunters vs newer Hunters? If so, sorry gang, not what I meant.
Thin skinned buggers
There is no doubt about it you bloody yanks are certainly thin skinned. Not like us thick skinned (and head) aussies. Perhaps we are too casual downunder? Ha Ha bet this gets you all going?
There is no doubt about it you bloody yanks are certainly thin skinned. Not like us thick skinned (and head) aussies. Perhaps we are too casual downunder? Ha Ha bet this gets you all going?
What a Discussion!!!
Whew!!!! I didn't realize I was about to generate such a discussion by asking what I considered a simple question...(obviously there are simple questions but no simple answers)..but I would like to thanks all who responded and enabled me to learn a little more about the boat...BTW I just love it...1st boat Thanks all!!!
Whew!!!! I didn't realize I was about to generate such a discussion by asking what I considered a simple question...(obviously there are simple questions but no simple answers)..but I would like to thanks all who responded and enabled me to learn a little more about the boat...BTW I just love it...1st boat Thanks all!!!
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