Thought we needed a comprehensive thread regarding the Cherubini rudders. And specifically the H37C. Many of you have made modifications. Many more of us know that we need to make those changes. The questions are: which changes, how expensive, and how hard? I don’t worry about the Edson part, I can sail her with the tiller. But I sure do worry about loosing the rudder. Gene Gruender on Rainbow Chaser and Wally Smith on his H37C have done this. Gene’s detail on the Rainbow Chaser web-site has changed and is not as comprehensive as it once was. So I am hoping this thread will pull that all back together. And here are Wally’s comments: “I had a new rudder made by a friend in the business, stronger, thicker shaft and more weldments. I reinforced the bore thru the hull and used the shelf to further support the top of the shaft. I made a alum bracket and used delron bearing blocks to lock the shaft in place for up and down and side to side. An alum collar pinned to the shaft rides on the delron.” My own surveyor noted that some of the tabbing was coming loose where it secures the plywood frame that the stock goes through and that the top collar rides on. I have already beefed up the rudder stops, those two pieces of 2x4 that were only secured with two screws into end-grain plywood. My plan is to double up all of that plywood, both the vertical and the horizontal with ¾” marine plywood and lots of epoxy and glass. But what else? How do you “reinforce the bore thru the hull”? Is there a bearing surface in there or just the fiberglass as it comes out of the mold? What about the stock itself, strong enough or should we weld another tube inside of the original? Do we trust that the internal part of the rudder is sound or should we open them up? Or is Hadoulias just making me paranoid?
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Rudder Paranoia!
No paranoia required but I would give serious consideration to checking out the rudder system on the 37C. I have found out the following after a very contorted three days in my aft lazarette where the steering quadrant is located. I was ocean sailing a few weeks ago and was hearing some clanks and squeaks on a very confused following sea. I later discovered that my rudder was extremely loose at the upper Delrin bearing and had play below the quadrant at the F/G tube as well. The tube had some hairline cracks that actually seeped water when the wheel was turned hard and streesed against the tube. I pulled it all apart, rebuilt the upper bearing assembly and shimmed the lower tube as best I could to relieve the play. The boat will ultimately have to come out of the water and some glass reinforcement added to stengthen the area. I have a peice of 4" angle going across the lower shelf with 1/2" all-rod now attaching the lower and upper shelves that are tabbed to the stern. This ties in the whole assembly and has made it considerably stronger. I could glass in the tube from the inside without hauling but I will glass the inside, haul, glass the outside where the tube exits the hull and align bore a hole that will accept a bearing sleeve with a tight tolerance to the shaft and the hull. This is definately a weak link on the 37C and anyone contemplating some serious offshore work needs to address this before a failure occurs. As these boats get older they see a lot of wear on the rudder shaft tube and the ultimate failure is a cracked tube and water intrusion, especialy on a heavily laden boat as the tube is always under water. What happens is the tube wears at the hull, as the hole enlarges the loads are transfered to the packing shaft seal which is at the top of the assembly and is attached by a rubber hose to the F/G tube. The packing seal is bronze so it holds together well but it now exerts a side to side load on the tube which causes the tube to flex and ultimately start cracking. Many good advices have been passed on via this site pertaining to this problem. Gene had a very good narative on what he did with his and I've read others as well but as Ed had stated Gene had modified his rudder section on his web site to deal more with removing a rudder rather than what his fix was. Gene if your out there perhaps a memory jog would help! Thanks! I will post all future upgrades to the forum regarding my particular installation and fix but I don't want to create a panic about 37C rudders. I do however encourage all 37C owners to check thiers out and I would be happy to assist with moral support if anyone needs it. As a final qualifier, I firmly believe that had I not seen and fixed this problem I would have ultimately lost the boat in extreme weather conditions or at the very least had a serious leak on my hands. As a result of my findings, I will probably incorporate Gene's bulkhead mod to the aft compartment in order to have a watertight safety net if the worst should happen. I'm too far in this project to stop now! Ed, are you paranoid yet? Tom
No paranoia required but I would give serious consideration to checking out the rudder system on the 37C. I have found out the following after a very contorted three days in my aft lazarette where the steering quadrant is located. I was ocean sailing a few weeks ago and was hearing some clanks and squeaks on a very confused following sea. I later discovered that my rudder was extremely loose at the upper Delrin bearing and had play below the quadrant at the F/G tube as well. The tube had some hairline cracks that actually seeped water when the wheel was turned hard and streesed against the tube. I pulled it all apart, rebuilt the upper bearing assembly and shimmed the lower tube as best I could to relieve the play. The boat will ultimately have to come out of the water and some glass reinforcement added to stengthen the area. I have a peice of 4" angle going across the lower shelf with 1/2" all-rod now attaching the lower and upper shelves that are tabbed to the stern. This ties in the whole assembly and has made it considerably stronger. I could glass in the tube from the inside without hauling but I will glass the inside, haul, glass the outside where the tube exits the hull and align bore a hole that will accept a bearing sleeve with a tight tolerance to the shaft and the hull. This is definately a weak link on the 37C and anyone contemplating some serious offshore work needs to address this before a failure occurs. As these boats get older they see a lot of wear on the rudder shaft tube and the ultimate failure is a cracked tube and water intrusion, especialy on a heavily laden boat as the tube is always under water. What happens is the tube wears at the hull, as the hole enlarges the loads are transfered to the packing shaft seal which is at the top of the assembly and is attached by a rubber hose to the F/G tube. The packing seal is bronze so it holds together well but it now exerts a side to side load on the tube which causes the tube to flex and ultimately start cracking. Many good advices have been passed on via this site pertaining to this problem. Gene had a very good narative on what he did with his and I've read others as well but as Ed had stated Gene had modified his rudder section on his web site to deal more with removing a rudder rather than what his fix was. Gene if your out there perhaps a memory jog would help! Thanks! I will post all future upgrades to the forum regarding my particular installation and fix but I don't want to create a panic about 37C rudders. I do however encourage all 37C owners to check thiers out and I would be happy to assist with moral support if anyone needs it. As a final qualifier, I firmly believe that had I not seen and fixed this problem I would have ultimately lost the boat in extreme weather conditions or at the very least had a serious leak on my hands. As a result of my findings, I will probably incorporate Gene's bulkhead mod to the aft compartment in order to have a watertight safety net if the worst should happen. I'm too far in this project to stop now! Ed, are you paranoid yet? Tom
h37c rudder
I completely rebuilt the plywood box supporting the top of the rudder. It took a day. Four atlantic crossings later, everything is fine.
I completely rebuilt the plywood box supporting the top of the rudder. It took a day. Four atlantic crossings later, everything is fine.
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