The second photo has some type of mark on the hull - its hard to tell but it could be a blister. Thanks again! Karen
Checking for damage Message 3 - photo#3
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My guess...
From two of the pictures, I have seen, it looks like the PO did not know how to rebed hardware. This again is a surface caulk job that is not effective. I would plan on either you or the yard removing all the hardware and rebeding it. I would only consider that if the core on the deck and cabin top are not mushy feeling. I would also put some pressure on the stanchions to see if the core around thoses are soft also. I know I sound like the bad guy but you asked and it's your money and time. You won't find a perfect boat that doesn't need something. The real question is how much do you want to do. Just make sure the problems are not serious. If in doubt, ask a knowledgable sailor near you that knows boats about the problems you see and if they see any. r.w.landau
From two of the pictures, I have seen, it looks like the PO did not know how to rebed hardware. This again is a surface caulk job that is not effective. I would plan on either you or the yard removing all the hardware and rebeding it. I would only consider that if the core on the deck and cabin top are not mushy feeling. I would also put some pressure on the stanchions to see if the core around thoses are soft also. I know I sound like the bad guy but you asked and it's your money and time. You won't find a perfect boat that doesn't need something. The real question is how much do you want to do. Just make sure the problems are not serious. If in doubt, ask a knowledgable sailor near you that knows boats about the problems you see and if they see any. r.w.landau
Checking for damage
r.w. - you are definitely not the bad guy - I appreciate your honesty & your knowledge!!! I don't remember the deck or the areas around the chainplate, etc...feeling spongy - but I will check that out now! karen
r.w. - you are definitely not the bad guy - I appreciate your honesty & your knowledge!!! I don't remember the deck or the areas around the chainplate, etc...feeling spongy - but I will check that out now! karen
book and survey
Karen, Have you discovered Don Casey's book, Inspecting the Aging Sailboat? I just bought a 1992 Hunter 30, and it was invaluable reading while shopping. It tells you, in layman's terms, what to look for. More than you can ever imagine. Available at Amazon. Also, I agree wholeheartedly with RW. Get a survey and BE THERE for it. I surveyed another boat before I bought this one; the survey revealed many major problems, so I didn't buy it. But I told the surveyor that it was the best $$$ I ever spent - partly because he kept me from buying a boat with serious problems but ALSO because I learned SOOOOOO much! And that was especially true about the boat I bought. I jump started my learning curve by going over the boat with the surveyor. We went in nooks and crannies the previous owner (PO) didn't even know existed. Good luck to you! If you need more help, don't hesitate to email. I'm in the directory.
Karen, Have you discovered Don Casey's book, Inspecting the Aging Sailboat? I just bought a 1992 Hunter 30, and it was invaluable reading while shopping. It tells you, in layman's terms, what to look for. More than you can ever imagine. Available at Amazon. Also, I agree wholeheartedly with RW. Get a survey and BE THERE for it. I surveyed another boat before I bought this one; the survey revealed many major problems, so I didn't buy it. But I told the surveyor that it was the best $$$ I ever spent - partly because he kept me from buying a boat with serious problems but ALSO because I learned SOOOOOO much! And that was especially true about the boat I bought. I jump started my learning curve by going over the boat with the surveyor. We went in nooks and crannies the previous owner (PO) didn't even know existed. Good luck to you! If you need more help, don't hesitate to email. I'm in the directory.
Crappie maintenance.
Karen: You are dealing with plain old crappie maintenance. The owner of this vessel just did quick and dirty maintenance. You really need to have a good survey and a low ball offer. These items are not difficult to repair, but they need to be done properly. Leaking chain plates can lead to structural damage. Leaking thru hulls can lead to rotten core (depending on where it is located. You have picked up the obvious, now the surveyor can pick up on the hidden problems.
Karen: You are dealing with plain old crappie maintenance. The owner of this vessel just did quick and dirty maintenance. You really need to have a good survey and a low ball offer. These items are not difficult to repair, but they need to be done properly. Leaking chain plates can lead to structural damage. Leaking thru hulls can lead to rotten core (depending on where it is located. You have picked up the obvious, now the surveyor can pick up on the hidden problems.
Crappie maintenance...
Hi Steve, Thanks for the reply - I'm struggling with whether I should go through all the extra work & money to buy this boat OR look for something newer & in better shape. I also looked at a 1987 Hunter 26.5...one owner & well taken of. He's asking $9000 but said he would definitely negotiate. The boat looked in great condition. So - what price would you suggest I offer for both boats? Thanks, Karen
Hi Steve, Thanks for the reply - I'm struggling with whether I should go through all the extra work & money to buy this boat OR look for something newer & in better shape. I also looked at a 1987 Hunter 26.5...one owner & well taken of. He's asking $9000 but said he would definitely negotiate. The boat looked in great condition. So - what price would you suggest I offer for both boats? Thanks, Karen
valuation
Karen, YOu can find valuations from two organizations, BUC and NADA. http://www.bucvalu.com and http://www.nadaguides.com They will get you started. Then go to http://www.yachtworld.com and look at comparable boats for sale - same age, brand, size. The BUC and NADA values and what boats are on the market for will give you a good idea of what you should be paying. Of course, it's all relative to the condition of the boat. Good luck!
Karen, YOu can find valuations from two organizations, BUC and NADA. http://www.bucvalu.com and http://www.nadaguides.com They will get you started. Then go to http://www.yachtworld.com and look at comparable boats for sale - same age, brand, size. The BUC and NADA values and what boats are on the market for will give you a good idea of what you should be paying. Of course, it's all relative to the condition of the boat. Good luck!
I would shop around some more.
Karen: How much money are you willing to spend? If you shop around you may find a larger boat (maybe something like a H'30) in the mid teens that is in very good condition. If you start with a slightly larger boat, you won't end up with big-boat-itis as soon. Where do you live?
Karen: How much money are you willing to spend? If you shop around you may find a larger boat (maybe something like a H'30) in the mid teens that is in very good condition. If you start with a slightly larger boat, you won't end up with big-boat-itis as soon. Where do you live?
valuation
Thanks Sherry - I'm going to get "This Old Boat" & I'll check out the websites that you listed! Buying a good boat is much more complicated than I thought but I know its worth the time & effort! Have a great day! Karen
Thanks Sherry - I'm going to get "This Old Boat" & I'll check out the websites that you listed! Buying a good boat is much more complicated than I thought but I know its worth the time & effort! Have a great day! Karen
big boat itis
Steve - I love the "big boat itis" thing
I'm in the Western New York area - the boat I looked at is in Wilson, NY. I was hoping to find something for around $7500 - I don't mind a boat with a little fix up work but I don't want to spend another $2000 or $3000 for repairs. Have a great day! Karen
Steve - I love the "big boat itis" thing
I'm in the Western New York area - the boat I looked at is in Wilson, NY. I was hoping to find something for around $7500 - I don't mind a boat with a little fix up work but I don't want to spend another $2000 or $3000 for repairs. Have a great day! KarenLooking at Other Boats
Karen, you are going to have a similar "problem" no matter what boat you look at. Chances are you are not going to find a boat that is in perfect condition, and if you do, you will pay a premium price for it. The O'Day 25 you're looking at, from what the pictures show, is not in a "run away from it" condition. However, it needs a survey to say for sure. Keep in mind, the Hunter you're looking at does as well. The bottom line is that with boats, the issues that may need work can be hidden from folks that don't know what to look for, and can quickly exceed the value of the boat. Pictures aren't good enough. We can't hear the thunk of a small hammer against the deck or bulkhead, or feel the deck give way (or not give way) when we walk on it, or feel the motor shaking because of a bad cutlass bearing, etc etc. None of the issues above are "deal killers", even if you had ALL of them, depending on how bad they are. On the other hand, any ONE problem can be excuse to walk away, if it's bad enough. Seriously, the best advice you're getting is to ask questions like you have to narrow down the list of boats you want, and then have a surveyor look at it.
Karen, you are going to have a similar "problem" no matter what boat you look at. Chances are you are not going to find a boat that is in perfect condition, and if you do, you will pay a premium price for it. The O'Day 25 you're looking at, from what the pictures show, is not in a "run away from it" condition. However, it needs a survey to say for sure. Keep in mind, the Hunter you're looking at does as well. The bottom line is that with boats, the issues that may need work can be hidden from folks that don't know what to look for, and can quickly exceed the value of the boat. Pictures aren't good enough. We can't hear the thunk of a small hammer against the deck or bulkhead, or feel the deck give way (or not give way) when we walk on it, or feel the motor shaking because of a bad cutlass bearing, etc etc. None of the issues above are "deal killers", even if you had ALL of them, depending on how bad they are. On the other hand, any ONE problem can be excuse to walk away, if it's bad enough. Seriously, the best advice you're getting is to ask questions like you have to narrow down the list of boats you want, and then have a surveyor look at it.
Rebedding
Hi Herb, Thanks for your response! I'm going to look at the boat tomorrow & do a more thorough inspection - hammering & all! I believe the boat was recently surveyed so I'll ask to see the report. If there is not a recent survey & if I feel its worthwhile - I will have it surveyed. Herb...if I need to remove the fittings and rebed - how much would you say that will cost? Is it a job that I can do? With some help of course! Thanks! Karen
Hi Herb, Thanks for your response! I'm going to look at the boat tomorrow & do a more thorough inspection - hammering & all! I believe the boat was recently surveyed so I'll ask to see the report. If there is not a recent survey & if I feel its worthwhile - I will have it surveyed. Herb...if I need to remove the fittings and rebed - how much would you say that will cost? Is it a job that I can do? With some help of course! Thanks! Karen
Rebedding
Rebedding deck fittings on a boat like the Oday 25 is not a job that requires a lot of skill, just time and a lot of elbow grease. You can pay a yard to do this for you, but you can do it yourself. Costs? For you, tube of bedding compound. To have someone do it for you? A local yard's hourly rates for labor will give you a good idea, as you probably won't need to buy expensive parts (nuts and bolts aren't that much $). Figure a minumum of an hour per fitting to rebed. Keep in mind that this number could go way up if the back of the fitting is inaccessible. For an Oday 25, this is a distinct possibility. Oday used interior liners, and some of the backs or bottoms of the hardware you may need to access is sandwiched between the outer hull and the interior floors, walls and/or ceilings. To access the stanchions, you will have to remove the "decorative" covering (carpeting) that was glued to the insides of most Odays. Please don't think you will find a boat that doesn't leak at least somewhere, especially not one for less than $10,000. Good luck.
Rebedding deck fittings on a boat like the Oday 25 is not a job that requires a lot of skill, just time and a lot of elbow grease. You can pay a yard to do this for you, but you can do it yourself. Costs? For you, tube of bedding compound. To have someone do it for you? A local yard's hourly rates for labor will give you a good idea, as you probably won't need to buy expensive parts (nuts and bolts aren't that much $). Figure a minumum of an hour per fitting to rebed. Keep in mind that this number could go way up if the back of the fitting is inaccessible. For an Oday 25, this is a distinct possibility. Oday used interior liners, and some of the backs or bottoms of the hardware you may need to access is sandwiched between the outer hull and the interior floors, walls and/or ceilings. To access the stanchions, you will have to remove the "decorative" covering (carpeting) that was glued to the insides of most Odays. Please don't think you will find a boat that doesn't leak at least somewhere, especially not one for less than $10,000. Good luck.
books for you
Karen, While you're ordering, buy both This Old Boat and Inspecting the Aging Sailboat - same author. Both excellent books for your library. Sherry
Karen, While you're ordering, buy both This Old Boat and Inspecting the Aging Sailboat - same author. Both excellent books for your library. Sherry
Sherry's Right
Both books are probably worth buying. I never bought the "Aging Boat" book, because I already owned both of my "older boats" before I bought "This Old Boat". However, I can vouch for the usefulness of "This Old Boat", and would guess that Casey's other boat is as useful if you're looking at buying a boat.
Both books are probably worth buying. I never bought the "Aging Boat" book, because I already owned both of my "older boats" before I bought "This Old Boat". However, I can vouch for the usefulness of "This Old Boat", and would guess that Casey's other boat is as useful if you're looking at buying a boat.
Damage
Sherry, looking at the pictures I would definitely say tht ther as been some water intrusion through the chain plates. You want to look inside and see if there is any water damage on the inside of the boat in the are aof the chain plates such as rusting on stainless steel, waer damage on the bulkheads etc. You proabably have the same thing going on around the mast. You want to lie on the deck and see how level that area is to make sure that the watr that has gotten in there has not destroyed the core and possibly the sturctural strengh. It certainly looks as if the previous owner tried to do things themselves and quite frankly not a great job. That sends up a lot of flags to me about how the boat was taken care of. It is all quick fix! First as I am sure you know get a good surveyor (and I mean GOOD)to go over the boat for you. Don't rely too much on the previous survey that was only a snapshot of the boat that that time. Too many things could have changed. It might not be a bad idea to keep lloking Good luck Charlie
Sherry, looking at the pictures I would definitely say tht ther as been some water intrusion through the chain plates. You want to look inside and see if there is any water damage on the inside of the boat in the are aof the chain plates such as rusting on stainless steel, waer damage on the bulkheads etc. You proabably have the same thing going on around the mast. You want to lie on the deck and see how level that area is to make sure that the watr that has gotten in there has not destroyed the core and possibly the sturctural strengh. It certainly looks as if the previous owner tried to do things themselves and quite frankly not a great job. That sends up a lot of flags to me about how the boat was taken care of. It is all quick fix! First as I am sure you know get a good surveyor (and I mean GOOD)to go over the boat for you. Don't rely too much on the previous survey that was only a snapshot of the boat that that time. Too many things could have changed. It might not be a bad idea to keep lloking Good luck Charlie
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