One of the downsides of creating a fuel polishing system, is the cost of a Racor fuel filter system. (200 bucks for a Racor 500 on one of the big discounter sites.) Well via a friend on the Tayana forum, there is a cheaper alternative. There are filters for much less money. The link shows several diesel filters that are in the 30 to 35 dollar range. The replacement elements are 10 or 11 bucks depending on which filter you buy. The metal in the filter is cast zinc, which lasts pretty long in the marine environment as long as you don't immerse it in salt water. And the price is right. For the price of the Racor filter, with one element, you can get the Goldenrod filter and 15 replacement elements - if you buy the 30 dollar version. Together with an inexpensive 12-volt fuel pump, I am going to use this set-up to build a polishing system. I don't think I will replace my racor at this time until I see how this system works. I will install the filters and the pump in a portable box of some kind and buy some copper tubing so I draw the fuel out of the tank through the hole for the gauge. This will let me draw from the very bottom of the tank as well. (I will have some provision for pumping out into a container for the worst of the gunk on the bottom of the tank.) If the system holds up well I may replace the Racor Spin-on, since the replacement elements are too expensive and because Racor has decided to stop making 10 micron elements for the filter housing I have. I am stuck with either 2 micron (too small) or 30 micron (to big). 10 micron was just right. The Goldenrod filters are between 10 and 15 microns. I don't have any interest in any of these companies - other than trying to keep my fuel clean at a reasonable price.
Cheaper Fuel Filter for Polishing
- Thread starter Debra B
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Clean Fuel
What I have done is keep the fuel going in the tank clean to start with. I have a funnel fuel filter from west marine,it keeps water and dirt from going in to the tank to start with. I buy diesel from local station one that is busy a lot of trucks and buy 5 gallons at a time than go home and use this funnel filter to filter the diesel into clean one gallon jugs which I than take with me to the boat and use the same funnel filter into the tank. I take one or two jugs at different times to the boat and don't use that much diesel all year so its not that much trouble,it sounds worst than it really is once you have a system. This is what I did on my 2001 hunter 290 and will do the same on my 2007 36 and maybe even buy another funnel filter for the new boat. And I did change my fuel fiters on my yanmar they were always so clean and never had fuel problems. Nick
What I have done is keep the fuel going in the tank clean to start with. I have a funnel fuel filter from west marine,it keeps water and dirt from going in to the tank to start with. I buy diesel from local station one that is busy a lot of trucks and buy 5 gallons at a time than go home and use this funnel filter to filter the diesel into clean one gallon jugs which I than take with me to the boat and use the same funnel filter into the tank. I take one or two jugs at different times to the boat and don't use that much diesel all year so its not that much trouble,it sounds worst than it really is once you have a system. This is what I did on my 2001 hunter 290 and will do the same on my 2007 36 and maybe even buy another funnel filter for the new boat. And I did change my fuel fiters on my yanmar they were always so clean and never had fuel problems. Nick
Condensation
I do all of that and put biocide in the fuel, but condensation will form in a tank and sink to the bottom, and black gunk will grow there. When you are out in heavy seas, that gunk will slosh around and be pulled into the filters. The filters always clog at the worst time - off a lee shore, going under a bridge, etc. I speak from experience. That is why the Tayana forum was discussing fuel polishing in the first place.
I do all of that and put biocide in the fuel, but condensation will form in a tank and sink to the bottom, and black gunk will grow there. When you are out in heavy seas, that gunk will slosh around and be pulled into the filters. The filters always clog at the worst time - off a lee shore, going under a bridge, etc. I speak from experience. That is why the Tayana forum was discussing fuel polishing in the first place.
Polishing filters...
I worry about the fuel on Destiny because I simply cannot use enough of it each year. I have two 45 gal tanks, and can only use about half a tank/year. When I bought the boat (2001) the primary Racor was so clogged that I literally had to spoon the black gunk out of the bowl. I change the filter elements twice a year and they appear to be reasonably clean, but I suspect there is gunk galore in the tanks. It really is a problem because we are urged to keep diesel tanks full to minimize condensation problems. I am going to polish the fuel this spring by pumping out one tank, and then pumping back and forth between the two tanks. I have been wondering whether an inexpensive home water filter (with an appropriate element) would stand up to the diesel for long enough to get the job done, that is get rid of the large clumps? I know diesel is bad on rubber etc, but this is just a short term use and I would be prepared to throw the filter away after each use. This will not be a permanent installation and will probably be done above deck between the two deck fillers. It would be a lot cheaper than a fuel filter, and should allow a higher flow rate. Any thoughts?
I worry about the fuel on Destiny because I simply cannot use enough of it each year. I have two 45 gal tanks, and can only use about half a tank/year. When I bought the boat (2001) the primary Racor was so clogged that I literally had to spoon the black gunk out of the bowl. I change the filter elements twice a year and they appear to be reasonably clean, but I suspect there is gunk galore in the tanks. It really is a problem because we are urged to keep diesel tanks full to minimize condensation problems. I am going to polish the fuel this spring by pumping out one tank, and then pumping back and forth between the two tanks. I have been wondering whether an inexpensive home water filter (with an appropriate element) would stand up to the diesel for long enough to get the job done, that is get rid of the large clumps? I know diesel is bad on rubber etc, but this is just a short term use and I would be prepared to throw the filter away after each use. This will not be a permanent installation and will probably be done above deck between the two deck fillers. It would be a lot cheaper than a fuel filter, and should allow a higher flow rate. Any thoughts?
Related question.....
I need to drain my diesel tank in order to install a fuel sender and possibly an inspection port. Can/should I do this by disconnecting the return line from the engine and diverting it into another container? There's about 8 to 10 gallons in the tank - does anyone know how long would it take to drain the tank this way? Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
I need to drain my diesel tank in order to install a fuel sender and possibly an inspection port. Can/should I do this by disconnecting the return line from the engine and diverting it into another container? There's about 8 to 10 gallons in the tank - does anyone know how long would it take to drain the tank this way? Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
Hey thats MY fuel system ....
... and was the configuration as of 2001/2002 Your illustration omits the 'notes' that I originally listed: Uses only double flared tubes on delivery system. Coppper lines being replaced with double flared Stainless tube. (Reason: 1. copper is reactive with #2 Fuel Oil; 2. copper vs. compression/flared fitting 'relax' over time allowing air leakage on suction feed system) Changed location of priming pump to 'at the tank' to enhance air bleeding of the system. Recirculation system is ON anytime engine is ON. The recirc. filter housing WAS "Ametek type" glass filled polypropylene ..... (glass filled polypro 'swells' over time vs. diesel fuel) All system O-rings/gaskets changed to EPDM Suction dip-tube of recirc system located *at* the very bottom of the tank System will maintain in-the-tank resident (background) particle levels to less than 0,45uM (via nephalometry correlation to µM). Free water is removed from drain tap of recirculation housing. All filter performance monitored via gages with reference to engine at WOT (max. rpm) Since 2002 No need for redundant/paralllel 4 valve block and bypass Racor system. If you have good recirculation, the challenge to the Racors will abe minimum. If any problem develops in the system the 3 gallon day tank can be switched into the circuit .... has about 4 hours fuel for a 35-50 hP engine. Added a desiccant filled water vapor trap on the vent line to stop water vapor ingress .... desiccant is contained in polycarbonate cyclinder. Uses activated alumina as dessicant with colored (saturation indicator) Silica Gel. @ about 2/3 the depth of dessicant to visualize the need to regenerate the desiccant. Desiccant Regeneration is via vacuum (cleaner) for 1+ hour to remove oil vapor, then 8 hrs. bake at 350degrees in kitchen oven. Changed out the recirculation filter housing (was polypropyne glass filled "Ametek type" ) to Carbon steel T-type with bottom drain tap (Shelco Filters) As regards the GoldenRod filters: Clear plastic bowls on boat fuel filters wont pass survey (ABYS specs.) if you plan to sell the boat in the near future. Not knocking the GoldenRod filters in any way but their configuration is 'proprietary' .... meaning you're stuck using only one manufacturer. The world's "industrial standard" for coarse filters is each 'element/carrtridge' at 10" length (or multiple of 10") X 2.5" or 2.75" OD .... then you can pick and choose from literally hundreds of manufacturers. The GoldenRod filter material is resinated cellulosic felt (the worlds 'single source' of this media is probably Ahlstom in Finland) ... OK for single pass filtration of fuel oil, is accurate retention but doesnt have much dirt-capacity. Without going into all the bloody details of filtration mechanisms, etc. .... for a recirculation filter you want a high capacity 'depth media' filter ... something like an OSMONICS "Hytrex" GX10-15 ...meltblown polypropylene fiber in a graded pore density matrix...... The most important thing to mention is not noted or listed .... All this was started with a **CLEAN** tank that was mechanially hand scrubbed and flushed. I do not put any 'crap' fuel into the tank. When buying fuel I usually fill a clean glassful first, hold it up to strong white light with the glassful bewtween my eyeball and the light .... and if there is ANY haze in the fuel, I stop and simply go somewhere else. I keep the MINIMUM amount of fuel in the tank (only carry a small bit of reserve/emergencies). I totally empty the tank for wintertime layup, or other long layups, etc. I use dont use biocides, etc. BTW Ive been very deeply involved in 'filtration engineering" for the past 35+ years. Hope this helps. regards RichH "Aquila" Ty37 #423
... and was the configuration as of 2001/2002 Your illustration omits the 'notes' that I originally listed: Uses only double flared tubes on delivery system. Coppper lines being replaced with double flared Stainless tube. (Reason: 1. copper is reactive with #2 Fuel Oil; 2. copper vs. compression/flared fitting 'relax' over time allowing air leakage on suction feed system) Changed location of priming pump to 'at the tank' to enhance air bleeding of the system. Recirculation system is ON anytime engine is ON. The recirc. filter housing WAS "Ametek type" glass filled polypropylene ..... (glass filled polypro 'swells' over time vs. diesel fuel) All system O-rings/gaskets changed to EPDM Suction dip-tube of recirc system located *at* the very bottom of the tank System will maintain in-the-tank resident (background) particle levels to less than 0,45uM (via nephalometry correlation to µM). Free water is removed from drain tap of recirculation housing. All filter performance monitored via gages with reference to engine at WOT (max. rpm) Since 2002 No need for redundant/paralllel 4 valve block and bypass Racor system. If you have good recirculation, the challenge to the Racors will abe minimum. If any problem develops in the system the 3 gallon day tank can be switched into the circuit .... has about 4 hours fuel for a 35-50 hP engine. Added a desiccant filled water vapor trap on the vent line to stop water vapor ingress .... desiccant is contained in polycarbonate cyclinder. Uses activated alumina as dessicant with colored (saturation indicator) Silica Gel. @ about 2/3 the depth of dessicant to visualize the need to regenerate the desiccant. Desiccant Regeneration is via vacuum (cleaner) for 1+ hour to remove oil vapor, then 8 hrs. bake at 350degrees in kitchen oven. Changed out the recirculation filter housing (was polypropyne glass filled "Ametek type" ) to Carbon steel T-type with bottom drain tap (Shelco Filters) As regards the GoldenRod filters: Clear plastic bowls on boat fuel filters wont pass survey (ABYS specs.) if you plan to sell the boat in the near future. Not knocking the GoldenRod filters in any way but their configuration is 'proprietary' .... meaning you're stuck using only one manufacturer. The world's "industrial standard" for coarse filters is each 'element/carrtridge' at 10" length (or multiple of 10") X 2.5" or 2.75" OD .... then you can pick and choose from literally hundreds of manufacturers. The GoldenRod filter material is resinated cellulosic felt (the worlds 'single source' of this media is probably Ahlstom in Finland) ... OK for single pass filtration of fuel oil, is accurate retention but doesnt have much dirt-capacity. Without going into all the bloody details of filtration mechanisms, etc. .... for a recirculation filter you want a high capacity 'depth media' filter ... something like an OSMONICS "Hytrex" GX10-15 ...meltblown polypropylene fiber in a graded pore density matrix...... The most important thing to mention is not noted or listed .... All this was started with a **CLEAN** tank that was mechanially hand scrubbed and flushed. I do not put any 'crap' fuel into the tank. When buying fuel I usually fill a clean glassful first, hold it up to strong white light with the glassful bewtween my eyeball and the light .... and if there is ANY haze in the fuel, I stop and simply go somewhere else. I keep the MINIMUM amount of fuel in the tank (only carry a small bit of reserve/emergencies). I totally empty the tank for wintertime layup, or other long layups, etc. I use dont use biocides, etc. BTW Ive been very deeply involved in 'filtration engineering" for the past 35+ years. Hope this helps. regards RichH "Aquila" Ty37 #423
Draining fuel tank
BobW, a couple of observations 1. 8 to 10 gallons in the tank: it sounds like it may not be full. If it's half full, you can replace the sender with a half full tank. It's only when it's full full full that you'll have a problem because of the seal on the sender. 2. If you have a fuel pump on your boat, use the fuel pump to drain the tank into another container. Just remove the fuel return line from the engine and replace with another hose to insert into the container. 3. If you don't have a built-in fuel pump, find some way to siphon the diesel fuel out of the tank if it is high enough. (Ours is almost higher than the engine.) If not, and you don't have a fuel pump, you'll need to find a pump to pump it out. Stu
BobW, a couple of observations 1. 8 to 10 gallons in the tank: it sounds like it may not be full. If it's half full, you can replace the sender with a half full tank. It's only when it's full full full that you'll have a problem because of the seal on the sender. 2. If you have a fuel pump on your boat, use the fuel pump to drain the tank into another container. Just remove the fuel return line from the engine and replace with another hose to insert into the container. 3. If you don't have a built-in fuel pump, find some way to siphon the diesel fuel out of the tank if it is high enough. (Ours is almost higher than the engine.) If not, and you don't have a fuel pump, you'll need to find a pump to pump it out. Stu
Derek ..... Save your time and money
Crudded up filters indicate only one thing. DIRTY TANK. Recirculation polishing WILL NOT EVER clean up a dirty tank. Recirculation polishing will keep a tank from becoming a problem. Dont waste your time and money with recirculation filtration, etc. You need to get inside the tankage and mechanically scrub the walls. You usually can reach in through inspection ports, etc. with a long handled scrub brush, knock all the crap to the bottom, sop up with paper towels, etc. (then burn). etc. etc. .... then a few gallons of new clean fuel (flush) while recirculating, etc. Consider only getting your fuel from a high-turnover source such as a truck-stop, etc. The LAST place you want to get fuel is from a 'marina'. Once you get your system back to clean .... then consider to add a recirculation polishing system. Dont FILL the tanks all the time. Only take onboard what you NEED plus some reserve. REMOVE the oil before long layups .... take it home and burn in your oil heater. For long lay-ups the tank should be EMPTY. hope this helps
Crudded up filters indicate only one thing. DIRTY TANK. Recirculation polishing WILL NOT EVER clean up a dirty tank. Recirculation polishing will keep a tank from becoming a problem. Dont waste your time and money with recirculation filtration, etc. You need to get inside the tankage and mechanically scrub the walls. You usually can reach in through inspection ports, etc. with a long handled scrub brush, knock all the crap to the bottom, sop up with paper towels, etc. (then burn). etc. etc. .... then a few gallons of new clean fuel (flush) while recirculating, etc. Consider only getting your fuel from a high-turnover source such as a truck-stop, etc. The LAST place you want to get fuel is from a 'marina'. Once you get your system back to clean .... then consider to add a recirculation polishing system. Dont FILL the tanks all the time. Only take onboard what you NEED plus some reserve. REMOVE the oil before long layups .... take it home and burn in your oil heater. For long lay-ups the tank should be EMPTY. hope this helps
Clarifications....
I forgot to mention that I have to drain the tank because I have to move it out of it's constricted location in rear of the starboard cockpit locker in order to get enough 'headroom' to install the sender. Because Hunter didn't see fit to provide either a sender OR an inspection port, I'm stuck with cutting and drilling on the top of the tank, and there's no room to do that where it's at. The tank sits in a depression and I don't think I can get it out without getting it at least almost empty. I can't even get it out of the locker without tearing apart the 'bulkhead' between the locker and quarterberth, so I'm just planning to move it over to where I can get room to work on it. It also looks like I'm stuck buying one of those fancy Seabuilt inspection ports for about $150, because I can't find anything cheaper that will do the job well. I need access to the tank because the original problem with my engine cutting out seems to be caused by gunk in the tank clogging the pickup. Ah, well, I boutght this boat as a learning experience... and I'm learning plenty! What I didn't expect is that I needed to learn more about how to spend money. ;D Cheers, Bob
I forgot to mention that I have to drain the tank because I have to move it out of it's constricted location in rear of the starboard cockpit locker in order to get enough 'headroom' to install the sender. Because Hunter didn't see fit to provide either a sender OR an inspection port, I'm stuck with cutting and drilling on the top of the tank, and there's no room to do that where it's at. The tank sits in a depression and I don't think I can get it out without getting it at least almost empty. I can't even get it out of the locker without tearing apart the 'bulkhead' between the locker and quarterberth, so I'm just planning to move it over to where I can get room to work on it. It also looks like I'm stuck buying one of those fancy Seabuilt inspection ports for about $150, because I can't find anything cheaper that will do the job well. I need access to the tank because the original problem with my engine cutting out seems to be caused by gunk in the tank clogging the pickup. Ah, well, I boutght this boat as a learning experience... and I'm learning plenty! What I didn't expect is that I needed to learn more about how to spend money. ;D Cheers, Bob
Filters
Rich - You mentioned OSMONICS "Hytrex" GX10-15 ---- A quick web search only found case lots for sale. Where can I find these?
Rich - You mentioned OSMONICS "Hytrex" GX10-15 ---- A quick web search only found case lots for sale. Where can I find these?
Clarification ....
Clarification ..... The GE/Osmonics is only 'representative' of what I use. Call up any local 'filter or filtration distributor', ask for any 'spun-bonded' polypro filter at 10-15uM (nominal 95%+ rating). Prepare to pay cash on the barrel head, in person and looking like a 'tradesman' to avoid minimum order charges. Sometimes you can find these in 9-3/4" lengths in HomeDepot or Lowes ... but need a 1/8" flat gasket (EPR or EPDM, etc.) on each end to fit into a 10" housing. Home Depot and Lowes sometimes has these as 'swimming pool filters'.... but watch out to make sure that they are made from polypropylene and not some 'wierd'/cheap unknown 'mix' that will dissolve in fuel oil.
Hope this helps.
Clarification ..... The GE/Osmonics is only 'representative' of what I use. Call up any local 'filter or filtration distributor', ask for any 'spun-bonded' polypro filter at 10-15uM (nominal 95%+ rating). Prepare to pay cash on the barrel head, in person and looking like a 'tradesman' to avoid minimum order charges. Sometimes you can find these in 9-3/4" lengths in HomeDepot or Lowes ... but need a 1/8" flat gasket (EPR or EPDM, etc.) on each end to fit into a 10" housing. Home Depot and Lowes sometimes has these as 'swimming pool filters'.... but watch out to make sure that they are made from polypropylene and not some 'wierd'/cheap unknown 'mix' that will dissolve in fuel oil.
Hope this helps. - Status