Chart plotter choice overwhelm

JBP-PA · Jan 22, 2023

Hoo boy, lots of questions. Re the raymarine/autohelm tiller pilot, if it's the ST2000+, you can feed it wind and waypoint data via NMEA 0183 or old SeaTalk, but you cannot override it's internal compass. The manual for it is still available (and it's actually still being made despite being older than the dinosaurs). I believe in Simrad's tiller pilot you can feed it compass data.

JBP-PA · Jan 22, 2023

Most paddle wheel knot meters will have some calibration abilities such as increasing/decreasing the readout by a fixed percentage, but it will never be as accurate as your GPS, there are just too many variables such as weed growth, different flow depending on your angle of heel, etc.

dlochner · Jan 22, 2023

Your budget will be tight. Some basics.

There are primarily 3 manufacturers of recreational marine instruments, Navico (B&G, Simrad, Lowrance), Garmin, and Raymarine. In the Navico line the B&G brand is oriented towards sailing, Simrad towards powerboats, and Lowrance, towards fishing. The electronics in all three will essentially be the same, the software for each is a little different.

NEMA 2000 (aka N2K) is a networking standard that will allow instruments and devices to share information. This is how the autopilot will connect to the chart plotter.

Almost all transducers are made by AirMar. They make N2K compatible transducers that plug into the network and provide data to the chartplotter. The most common transducers now have speed, depth, and temperature in one unit.

The nine inch screen will be easier to see and read, especially with a tiller boat because you need to sit further away from the bulkhead where the screen will most likely be mounted. To the best of my knowledge all chart plotters now have GPS built in, no need for the mushrooms on the rail.

While there should be no problems using N2K devices across brands, it may complicate tech support as the brands may try to blame each other for problems, for this reason I prefer to stay within one ecosystem, B&G.

B&G just released a new line of chart plotters. Usually this means an older line is about to be discontinued. This is to your advantage as the older units will be discounted. Marine electronics have a small margin and are seldom put on sale. For your purposes the last generation of char plotters, the Vulcan line, should be more than adequate.

Both Raymarine and B&G offer tiller pilots. Without knowing the model tiller pilot you now have it is not possible to address compatibility. If it does have N2K then it will likely integrate with the chart plotter.

JBP-PA · Jan 22, 2023

Instrument packs come in starter kits that include the sensors, displays, and N2K backbone. If you are replacing everything, these are much cheaper than buying each sensor and display separately.

dlochner · Jan 22, 2023

mforum said:
Thanks Dave for that great overview. I was looking at Airmar Transducers. I’m planning to haul out the boat for bottom painting in the next several months, so it sounds like I could put in a new thru hull transducer and as long as it’s N2K compatible, I can decide a little later on which brand line to go with on the chart plotter?

JBP-PA said:
Instrument packs come in starter kits that include the sensors, displays, and N2K backbone. If you are replacing everything, these are much cheaper than buying each sensor and display separately.

Look for a starter pack or package deal. It will be a little less expensive.

About the only time I'll suggest West Marine as a vendor is for electronics and only if you have a West Marine Advantage card from BoatUS. The 5% rebate as a store credit is about the only discount you'll get. It has to be spent at a WM store, which is a bit of downside. This works if you have a WM store nearby and you can avoid shipping costs.

BarryL · Jan 22, 2023

Hey,

Lots of good information already given. Some additional:

Defender has the Vulcan 7R for $769

B&G Vulcan7R Multifunction Display - 7" - Radar Display - 000-14082-001

B&G is Navico's sailboat line of products.They are nearly identical to their Simrad counterparts but have extra sailing software for use with wind and other sensors.They do include the same fishfinder/depthsounder as the Simrad GO7R.This includes Forw

www.defender.com

The Vulcan is a great unit. I had one on my previous boat and I loved it. I have a B&G Zeus 3S 9 on my current boat. It's nicer but I don't know if it's worth the extra $2000!!!

You didn't mention a wind instrument. If you do any racing a wind instrument is important. They are also expensive.

If I was on a tight budget I would skip a knotmeter to measure Speed Through Water (STW) and just use the plotter for Speed Over Ground (SOG). The advanced plotters will display predicted currents. On my boat, when RACING I want to have STW. When cruising I don't really care. It's a pain to keep the paddlewheel clean. Once it gets a little dirty with marine growth it starts reading slowly. So before a race I will pull the impeller and clean it.

Last point, I don't know anything about tiller pilots but I assume they are similar to wheel or below deck pilots. The Raymarine pilots (wheel and below deck) will accept data from any NMEA source. So you can steel to a waypoint or a wind angle. You can't activate or control the pilot from the plotter UNLESS the plotter and pilot are from the same manufacturer. THis isn't a big deal dela but if you have a Raymarine pilot you may want a Ray plotter.

Note that IMHO, the plotters from Garmin, Raymarine, and B&G are more similar than they are different. They all have touch screens. They all can use Navionics charts. They all have NMEA2000 networks, sailing specific features, integration to AIS, DSC, etc.

Good luck,
Barry

Ward H · Jan 22, 2023

mforum said:
-7“ to 9” chart plotter display with nautical charts for Puget Sound, Canadian waters (Gulf Islands/Vancouver Island)
-More accurate knot meter (current one seems to display about 0.5 to 1 knot slower in no current, compared with GPS)
-new thru hull transducer (Is it worth it to get a combination depth/temp/speed unit?)
-capability to integrate a chart plotter with a tiller autohelm (Is this possible?). I have to stop and take 5 minutes to go in a circle to calibrate the compass with my current tiller autopilot.

Point 1. I have the RM Axiom 7" chart plotter. Love it. dlochner has a good point about location may indicate a 9" but price goes up.
Point 2. Yes knot meters need calibration and the paddle wheels must be kept clean. Remember GPS is speed over ground,. Knot meters are speed through water. Frequently they will not match. Going thru a local channel my gps may show 1knot. Knot meter may show 4 knots. This means the current is 3 knots and I have 1 knot forward progress.
Point 3. I don't want a combined triple transducer. I have a separate depth transducer and a separate knot/temp transducer. I like this set up because I remove the knot meter from the sleeve to keep it clean when I'm just day sailing and I still have working depth. If I left the knot meter in place the paddle wheel would be clogged with growth after a week.
Point 4. I understand it can be done and I would attempt to do it but I don't have any experience in doing so so can't help there.

Crusty Ol Salt · Jan 22, 2023

I am doing the same thing this winter. Here is a Raymarine bundle that runs just a little over $1k I have been looking at.

Raymarine i50/i60 Depth, Speed and Wind Systems Pack - E70153

The Raymarine® i50 / i60 Depth, Speed and Wind Systems Pack is a complete depth, speed and wind systems package with instrument displays, transducers, cables and components required for operation. Features: Functions: Depth t

www.defender.com

Stu Jackson · Jan 22, 2023

Canadian charts will cost a lot. Lower Gulf Islands are covered in US charts, just check for yourself how far the US charts do go for your use. While they don't go to Vancouver, they do cover the S Gulf Islands well, up to Ganges on Saltspring.

Joe · Jan 23, 2023

I put 7" B&G Vulcan on a double swing arm mounted just inside the hatch on starboard side. The unit can be swung out in to the cockpit facing whichever side you are sitting and within easy reach of your tiller position. The MFD controls everything I have so far... which include media player, wind transducer, vhf radio with AIS and a Simrad TP22 tiller pilot. I still haven't updated the depth and speed log... but I'll get around to it some day. The Vulcan integrates all the data from the various inputs... so the ais targets from the radio are displayed on the screen, making it much easier to monitor. The wind is processed to apparent and true data, which is also logged to track changes in speed and direction over time. Of paricular note is the auto pilot controller display built into the Vulcan. The tiller pilot can work standalone of course, but when tied into the network, the vulcan will manage it in various modes. besides sailing to a particular compass heading or to a route (which is a set of waypoints) it can be set to steer to apparent or true wind direction. Very, very cool.... sailing upwind or on a reach, you'd use apparent wind direction just like a windvane. When sailing off or down wind it preferable to sail to true wind, because the boat yaws and swings around a bit as waves pass under the boat. Finally, you can swing the vulcan inside the cabin and control the tiller pilot from there if you want to go below to fix dinner, study a chart or just get out of the weather. Can you tell I like it? I can send you a couple pictures of the set up if you choose. The pics are on another computer or I'd post them now. anyway, have fun.

jssailem · Jan 23, 2023

Hi. Hope you are enjoying SBO. See you had a coolant leak. Hope you got it fixed.

Many ideas and questions. The question is how much electronics do you really need vs want.

What functions are need? Which ones are wants? How much additional systems will be needed to support the wants?

I’d encourage you to checkout the options at the seattle boat show. Happening February 3 through 11.

Either an iPad or a pc laptop you can get the charting software from Rose Point.
https://www.rosepoint.com/. They have US and their own charts.

OpenCPN provides free open source software. The software works on multiple platforms WIN, MAC, Linux, etc. Check it out on Cruisers Forum or on line at https://www.opencpn.org/
Inside the US and nearby you can get free charts. Canadian charts cost varies based on what source you use.

I have been sailing the Puget Sound, Canadian waters using PC laptop, iPad and now a MAC laptop. Computer is in the cabin. iPad and VHF radio provide cockpit data when needed - I.e. AIS check for the past 7 years. Many ways to manage your navigation. I like to get up and record on paper my progress. Also helps to look around and stay aware of the surroundings like logs in the water. Sometimes missed when locked in the cockpit behind a TV screen chart.

thinwater · Jan 23, 2023

Skip the knot meter unless you plan on cleaning it regularly. Yes, I know there is a difference between GPS and speed through the water, but you can figure it out or ignore it. And you don't need water temperature, though most depth sounders will read it. I've had knot meters on several boats, and I pulled them and put in the plug.

You might consider wind instrument integration with the autopilot. FAR more useful that GPS/waypoint integration. But for a small boat, a compass tiller pilot is enough. I've had both.

Keep it simple. Save the money for your next boat.

Rjm st.petersburg · Jan 23, 2023

Orca | Orca Display 2 - the next-generation chartplotter

Orca is navigation for the modern boater. Meticulously designed to help you plan and find your way at sea, without getting in your way.

getorca.com

New on the market for the USA. Just another wireless option to add to your chart plotter overload.

Barnacle Bill · Jan 23, 2023

I'm not up to speed with the latest and greatest chart plotters of various brands, but I have always been a Garmin guy. The reason is they are so intuitive. Other brands it seems like you have to pour through the owner's manual to figure out how to do anything and with Garmin that simply is not the case. I have owned maybe 8 different Garmin GPS/Plotters both hand held and hard wired. I love them. I have done a lot of off shore navigation with other brands and had to pour through the books to figure out how to do certain functions. Ray Marine is one example, but, like I said, I haven't tried their latest and greatest. Maybe they have improved.

dlochner · Jan 25, 2023

mforum said:
Is it possible to get AIS to the ipad via VHF if there is no cell service?

No. The AIS iNavx uses and other tablet apps use is based on MarineTraffic.com or a similar service. These services rely on shore based or satellite based receivers which feed the data onto the web. The only way to get real time AIS is to have an AIS receiver. If you are going to spend the money to get a receiver, then you might as well spend a little more for a transponder, so you can be seen as well as see.

Davidasailor26 · Jan 25, 2023

mforum said:
Is it possible to get AIS to the ipad via VHF if there is no cell service?

If you have an NMEA capable VHF you could get an NMEA to Wi-Fi bridge that puts the AIS sentences out for consumption by the iPad.

There are also ways to use a Raspberry Pi to receive VHF directly and create the appropriate NMEA0183 sentences on Wi-Fi. But those are definitely more technically complex

Terry Cox · Jan 25, 2023

mforum said:
Any thoughts/suggestions/considerations appreciated.

Fam got me a Garmin GPS sounder for my birthday in 2005 and have enjoyed its accuracy and durability ever since. Wrote an article about it back then and here it is: Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

The unit is long since been manufacturer discontinued, but if you can find one, they're very handy. Newer models are available as well.

Chart plotter choice overwhelm

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

.

.

.

.

.

.

.