Hi Peggy- I'm holding off on the puns, but wonder if you have ever discussed Charles' KISS MSD system? The link is below for your reference. I'm a multihull fan, and have read a couple of books by Charles and while his editing leaves something to be desired, he does have some strong opinions! His approach to a simple MSD install is interesting, and I for one would like to know what you think. Regards, Tom Boles SF Bay
- Status
I've seen it before...nothing original about it
In fact, except for the fact that he advocates putting the discharge fitting in the bottom of the tank and mounting the tank so that the bottom is above the waterline, his "K.I.S.S" installation is no different from 99% of holding tank installations...look at his drawing. All he's actually done is remove the pump to the dump the tank and replaced it with a p-trap in the tank discharge hose where waste can stand and permeate the hose. Some of his comments and recommendations made me laugh, others left me gasping, wondering what on earth he could be THINKING! Of course, the inlet in the tank has to be at the very top--of ANY tank. If it's lower, waste will fill the inlet hose and flow back toward the toilet when it reaches the level of the inlet. Somebody needs to tell him that the "very best" (and some of the worst) tanks are made of polyethylene, not polypropylene. And definitely I take issue with a few of his recommendations: Few, if any, holding or water tanks smaller than 100 gallons are baffled...many are shallow and flat, but "waves" have never been a problem for anyone. So whether the tank is flat or tall and skinny is a non-issue as far as that's concerned, but... He understands the need for adequate venting (although a 1.25" diameter vent shouldn't be necessary when a tank can be vented horizontally...otoh, you can't get TOO much air into a tank, so I won't argue that point--although some boat owners might not think a hole that large in the side of their boats is cosmetically appealing), but in recommending tall skinny tanks, he apparently doesn't understand that what's at the bottom of any tank more than 20" tall will turn anaerobic no matter how well the tank is vented at the top. Otoh, if the whole tank has to be above the waterline, how tall and skinny CAN it be??? Tank size: "If you figure a minimum required capacity of one half-gallon per day per person, you will be close to your requirements for size." He's gotta be kidding! Unless they're dehydrated, most people pee close to 2 quarts a day total...where's the room for ANY flush water???? And as for his hose recommendations: "All tubing should be opaque. Letting sunlight get into the lines allows the algae to grow that causes a most unpleasant odor." Algae causes odor in sanitation hoses??? That's news to me! I find it incredible that he doesn't recommend using only hose that's rated for sanitation...that he doesn't even recommend using hose that's rated for below-waterline use for the head intake and oveboard discharge is downright irresponsible. And speaking of irresponsible: "1. If you have a watermaker or spend considerable time at marinas where you can obtain water easily, plumb your system to flush with fresh water. You can have a switch over to sea water if you like, as a standby." NO manual toilet should EVER be connected to the potable water supply...there's no way to do it without risking contamination of the potable water. Only toilets that are designed by the mfr to draw pressurized water should EVER be connected to the fresh water supply. Finally, "In cold weather, there is the possibility of freezing and rupturing both tank and hose. Many an owner has come back to spring commissioning only to find a split hose or fitting due to the nature of his installation." Okey-dokey...and his recommendations for preventing that are....???
As you said, he's not quite the expert in sanitation he thinks he is, but you can always count on him to have an opinion!
In fact, except for the fact that he advocates putting the discharge fitting in the bottom of the tank and mounting the tank so that the bottom is above the waterline, his "K.I.S.S" installation is no different from 99% of holding tank installations...look at his drawing. All he's actually done is remove the pump to the dump the tank and replaced it with a p-trap in the tank discharge hose where waste can stand and permeate the hose. Some of his comments and recommendations made me laugh, others left me gasping, wondering what on earth he could be THINKING! Of course, the inlet in the tank has to be at the very top--of ANY tank. If it's lower, waste will fill the inlet hose and flow back toward the toilet when it reaches the level of the inlet. Somebody needs to tell him that the "very best" (and some of the worst) tanks are made of polyethylene, not polypropylene. And definitely I take issue with a few of his recommendations: Few, if any, holding or water tanks smaller than 100 gallons are baffled...many are shallow and flat, but "waves" have never been a problem for anyone. So whether the tank is flat or tall and skinny is a non-issue as far as that's concerned, but... He understands the need for adequate venting (although a 1.25" diameter vent shouldn't be necessary when a tank can be vented horizontally...otoh, you can't get TOO much air into a tank, so I won't argue that point--although some boat owners might not think a hole that large in the side of their boats is cosmetically appealing), but in recommending tall skinny tanks, he apparently doesn't understand that what's at the bottom of any tank more than 20" tall will turn anaerobic no matter how well the tank is vented at the top. Otoh, if the whole tank has to be above the waterline, how tall and skinny CAN it be??? Tank size: "If you figure a minimum required capacity of one half-gallon per day per person, you will be close to your requirements for size." He's gotta be kidding! Unless they're dehydrated, most people pee close to 2 quarts a day total...where's the room for ANY flush water???? And as for his hose recommendations: "All tubing should be opaque. Letting sunlight get into the lines allows the algae to grow that causes a most unpleasant odor." Algae causes odor in sanitation hoses??? That's news to me! I find it incredible that he doesn't recommend using only hose that's rated for sanitation...that he doesn't even recommend using hose that's rated for below-waterline use for the head intake and oveboard discharge is downright irresponsible. And speaking of irresponsible: "1. If you have a watermaker or spend considerable time at marinas where you can obtain water easily, plumb your system to flush with fresh water. You can have a switch over to sea water if you like, as a standby." NO manual toilet should EVER be connected to the potable water supply...there's no way to do it without risking contamination of the potable water. Only toilets that are designed by the mfr to draw pressurized water should EVER be connected to the fresh water supply. Finally, "In cold weather, there is the possibility of freezing and rupturing both tank and hose. Many an owner has come back to spring commissioning only to find a split hose or fitting due to the nature of his installation." Okey-dokey...and his recommendations for preventing that are....???
As you said, he's not quite the expert in sanitation he thinks he is, but you can always count on him to have an opinion! - Status