I have an Adler Barbour Cold Machine model DCM-12 that is about 12 years old. It has been functioning fine up to this point but seems that it is not cooling nearly as well as it has in years past. The compressor runs quietly, still cycles on / off about 50/50 and cools the box to about 60 degrees now. There is very little if any frost on the evaporator anymore. I used to get 40 degrees and plenty of frost. I'm thinking that it may need a freon charging. I have refrigeration gages and have done some automotive work in years past. Any tips or instructions on charging this type of unit would be greatly appreciated. Jack
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Don
Just had mine done..
by pro. He says these are very difficult to balance, either too much or too little is bad. Not sure I would try it as it seems harder than a car a/c. (On the other hand, he may have taken me for the sucker that I can be.) Note too that yours is probably the old R12 freon, not the newer stuff (R24?). Mine is a 1994 model and apparently that's the year A/B started switching over. He had to actually relay the serial number on mine to A/B to determine whether it's 12 or 24 stuff. Turns out it is 12. Good luck.
by pro. He says these are very difficult to balance, either too much or too little is bad. Not sure I would try it as it seems harder than a car a/c. (On the other hand, he may have taken me for the sucker that I can be.) Note too that yours is probably the old R12 freon, not the newer stuff (R24?). Mine is a 1994 model and apparently that's the year A/B started switching over. He had to actually relay the serial number on mine to A/B to determine whether it's 12 or 24 stuff. Turns out it is 12. Good luck.
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Peter Brennan
Not for amateurs
The Adler-Barbour refrigerant loop is sealed. There is no way an owner can simply top off the refrigerant. A line has to be tapped into with a fitting and the refrigerant topped off through that fitting. Moreover, there has been this switch from one type of refrigerant to another on account of the ozone hole and my understanding is that only licensed people may deal with it. So you will have to call somebody, and it isn't cheap if travel time gets added. Also, have the unti thoroughly checked to see why you are losing refrigerant. There is an aluminum to copper joint in the loop near the evaporator that is subject to failure. You could be losing refrigerant there. If so, you will need a new evaporator because the joint cannot be fixed, or so I was told when I bought a whole new system.
The Adler-Barbour refrigerant loop is sealed. There is no way an owner can simply top off the refrigerant. A line has to be tapped into with a fitting and the refrigerant topped off through that fitting. Moreover, there has been this switch from one type of refrigerant to another on account of the ozone hole and my understanding is that only licensed people may deal with it. So you will have to call somebody, and it isn't cheap if travel time gets added. Also, have the unti thoroughly checked to see why you are losing refrigerant. There is an aluminum to copper joint in the loop near the evaporator that is subject to failure. You could be losing refrigerant there. If so, you will need a new evaporator because the joint cannot be fixed, or so I was told when I bought a whole new system.
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Guest
Careful on the recharge
I have a 1986 Cold Machine which worked beautifully under heavy use until 1995. At that time I had a recharge done which started a downward spiral. Seems most AC mechanics just tap the line with a saddle valve and add freon there, very simple and inexpensive...BUT it also is the most leak prone method. I have had to add freon every 18 months since this valve was added. This is expensive since R-12 production is now banned, still available at a steep price however. A discussion with Adler Barbour says the correct way to refill is to add a standard schraeder valve to the old fill port tube on the compressor itself. This requires more labor as the system must be evacutated and then refilled. But, all future refills will be minimal as this valve type is not prone to leak. If you want further proof of the validity of this approach, consider my bill 18 months ago was $75 and this year went up to $120!!! All in the cost of the rare R-12. $120 buys many bags of ice...
I have a 1986 Cold Machine which worked beautifully under heavy use until 1995. At that time I had a recharge done which started a downward spiral. Seems most AC mechanics just tap the line with a saddle valve and add freon there, very simple and inexpensive...BUT it also is the most leak prone method. I have had to add freon every 18 months since this valve was added. This is expensive since R-12 production is now banned, still available at a steep price however. A discussion with Adler Barbour says the correct way to refill is to add a standard schraeder valve to the old fill port tube on the compressor itself. This requires more labor as the system must be evacutated and then refilled. But, all future refills will be minimal as this valve type is not prone to leak. If you want further proof of the validity of this approach, consider my bill 18 months ago was $75 and this year went up to $120!!! All in the cost of the rare R-12. $120 buys many bags of ice...
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gene
check this
jack,i have been in this field for 22 yrs.did you check the condensor air flow? this can cause your probs!if it is good,check for external air entering the box,if all else fails your leak will cause serious probs later on down the line.if you let the unit run with a low charge it will cause moisture to enter the sealed system and damage the compressor..check for leaks now,and get it fixed now----its a lot cheaper
jack,i have been in this field for 22 yrs.did you check the condensor air flow? this can cause your probs!if it is good,check for external air entering the box,if all else fails your leak will cause serious probs later on down the line.if you let the unit run with a low charge it will cause moisture to enter the sealed system and damage the compressor..check for leaks now,and get it fixed now----its a lot cheaper
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Jack
Freon, Thermostat and Line Noise ??
I appreciate all of the input. I pulled a vacuum on it this weekend and put a little, and I mean a little, R-12 in it. Within a couple of hours the surface temp on the evaporator was 18 degrees. After 5 hours the compressor was cycling on / off 50/50 and the box temp. was down to 42 degrees. The evaporator surface was "tacky" to the touch due to a very thin frost layer. Outside temp. was about 100 degrees on Saturday. I still have a couple of questions..... What is the best way to dispense 3.5 oz. of R-12 without overcharging? Is there some trick to this or do you just carefully meter it in by holding the can of freon in your hand and judging by weight? That's all I did. Also, if the compressor cycles on and off with the box temp. at 42 degrees on the coldest setting with the outside temp hovering around 100, is that acceptable performance? I'm think that the thermostat is shutting the compressor off before it is reaching the coldest possible set point. I was hoping to get the box down to a true 40 degrees, maybe even 38. If the thermostat is set to the coldest setting, shouldn't the compressor keep on running? Shouldn't the maximum setting be lower than 42 degrees? One last thing, I hear a little gurgling and "groaning" sound in the refrigerant lines when the compressor is running. They aren't vibrating or rattling, it actually sounds like the gas itself inside the lines that is making the ghostly noise as it moves in and out of the evaporator. Any ideas? I really appreciate the help from this forum. Thank you again for the input. It's cold, now I'd like to fine tune it. Jack
I appreciate all of the input. I pulled a vacuum on it this weekend and put a little, and I mean a little, R-12 in it. Within a couple of hours the surface temp on the evaporator was 18 degrees. After 5 hours the compressor was cycling on / off 50/50 and the box temp. was down to 42 degrees. The evaporator surface was "tacky" to the touch due to a very thin frost layer. Outside temp. was about 100 degrees on Saturday. I still have a couple of questions..... What is the best way to dispense 3.5 oz. of R-12 without overcharging? Is there some trick to this or do you just carefully meter it in by holding the can of freon in your hand and judging by weight? That's all I did. Also, if the compressor cycles on and off with the box temp. at 42 degrees on the coldest setting with the outside temp hovering around 100, is that acceptable performance? I'm think that the thermostat is shutting the compressor off before it is reaching the coldest possible set point. I was hoping to get the box down to a true 40 degrees, maybe even 38. If the thermostat is set to the coldest setting, shouldn't the compressor keep on running? Shouldn't the maximum setting be lower than 42 degrees? One last thing, I hear a little gurgling and "groaning" sound in the refrigerant lines when the compressor is running. They aren't vibrating or rattling, it actually sounds like the gas itself inside the lines that is making the ghostly noise as it moves in and out of the evaporator. Any ideas? I really appreciate the help from this forum. Thank you again for the input. It's cold, now I'd like to fine tune it. Jack
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Don
Jack - how did you add the freon?
I have a sick cold machine that I would like to nurse along for a month or so by adding a little R-12. I can get the freon, but I am not sure how to add it to the system. Did you use an existing valve or tap into the line somehow? Thanks.
I have a sick cold machine that I would like to nurse along for a month or so by adding a little R-12. I can get the freon, but I am not sure how to add it to the system. Did you use an existing valve or tap into the line somehow? Thanks.
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Jack
How I added the freon
Don, I added the R-12 using the service port that was on the top of my compressor. Being a 1990 model it had the service port. From what I understand by reading posts on this forum, earlier models did not. I did have to find an adapter to go between the R-12 refrigerant charging hose and the gage manifold I was using. They had different size threads. I did use my gages so I could tell how much vacuum I had pulled on the system. If you don't need to evacuate it, you may only need a service port and some R-12 with a charging hose. If I can help any more, let me know. Jack
Don, I added the R-12 using the service port that was on the top of my compressor. Being a 1990 model it had the service port. From what I understand by reading posts on this forum, earlier models did not. I did have to find an adapter to go between the R-12 refrigerant charging hose and the gage manifold I was using. They had different size threads. I did use my gages so I could tell how much vacuum I had pulled on the system. If you don't need to evacuate it, you may only need a service port and some R-12 with a charging hose. If I can help any more, let me know. Jack
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tom
refridgeration
The federal gov. requires a EPA certification liscense to use refridgerants and for servicing refridgerant equipment. EPA 608 and EPA 609. There are hefty fines for doing this without a liscense. I don't think you want to be discussing this over the internet. I agree this is not for amateurs.
The federal gov. requires a EPA certification liscense to use refridgerants and for servicing refridgerant equipment. EPA 608 and EPA 609. There are hefty fines for doing this without a liscense. I don't think you want to be discussing this over the internet. I agree this is not for amateurs.
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Don
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gene
its a good thing
the noise your hearing is the freon in a liquid state entering the evaporator plate and which time the pressure is lower and it begins to expand.this is the way it should sound.to answer your queston on how to meter the freon charge,there is a devise called a (dial-a-charge)you fill it up and enter the exact amount of freon the system needs.its the only way to get a true charge.the second way is to charge by pressures.start unit and charge up to about 20psi.as the temp in box gets lower the pressure will drop.look for a temp of 35f and a low side pressure of 5 psi and the low side line returning to the compressor has no ice on it.this process will take 1-3 hrs,but it works.
the noise your hearing is the freon in a liquid state entering the evaporator plate and which time the pressure is lower and it begins to expand.this is the way it should sound.to answer your queston on how to meter the freon charge,there is a devise called a (dial-a-charge)you fill it up and enter the exact amount of freon the system needs.its the only way to get a true charge.the second way is to charge by pressures.start unit and charge up to about 20psi.as the temp in box gets lower the pressure will drop.look for a temp of 35f and a low side pressure of 5 psi and the low side line returning to the compressor has no ice on it.this process will take 1-3 hrs,but it works.
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Phil Williams
Proper charging
The ColdMachine has a refrigerant leak somewhere in the system. This is the reason it does not continue to cool as in years past. The noise you hear coming from the evaporator is the gas traveling through the tubes, this is normal. Discharging any refrigerant to the atmosphere is against the law. The proper method to correcting your system is to hire a licensed refrigeration technician to find the leak and then recharge the system. The correct amount of refrigerant required for your system to perform properly can only be added by equipment which is designed for this purpose. You can do it by putting some gas in and letting the system run and if you are lucky get it right. If you get to much in then you must remove some and this is where you will break the law if you do not use gas recovery equipment. You are correct in your assumption that the thermostat should not be shutting the unit on and off if the box is not down to temperature. The thermostat has a capillary tube which the last four inches are to be attached to the white evaporator. The rest of this tube is not to touch anything that is colder than the evaporator. Check this to be sure the capillary tube is attached properly. With the thermostat set at the highest setting the compressor should run most of the time given the high ambient conditions you mentioned. The actual evaporator temperature, when the system is charged properly, will reach 15 - 20 degrees and the compressor will cycle on and off about 50/50. With your high heat the cycling time could be much higher. Phil
The ColdMachine has a refrigerant leak somewhere in the system. This is the reason it does not continue to cool as in years past. The noise you hear coming from the evaporator is the gas traveling through the tubes, this is normal. Discharging any refrigerant to the atmosphere is against the law. The proper method to correcting your system is to hire a licensed refrigeration technician to find the leak and then recharge the system. The correct amount of refrigerant required for your system to perform properly can only be added by equipment which is designed for this purpose. You can do it by putting some gas in and letting the system run and if you are lucky get it right. If you get to much in then you must remove some and this is where you will break the law if you do not use gas recovery equipment. You are correct in your assumption that the thermostat should not be shutting the unit on and off if the box is not down to temperature. The thermostat has a capillary tube which the last four inches are to be attached to the white evaporator. The rest of this tube is not to touch anything that is colder than the evaporator. Check this to be sure the capillary tube is attached properly. With the thermostat set at the highest setting the compressor should run most of the time given the high ambient conditions you mentioned. The actual evaporator temperature, when the system is charged properly, will reach 15 - 20 degrees and the compressor will cycle on and off about 50/50. With your high heat the cycling time could be much higher. Phil
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