I have recently purchased a new Catalina-Morgan 440. I won't be getting my boat delivered till spring, so I am tweeking the way the boat has been equipped and getting it outfitted just like I want it. Currently the boat has the standard battery charger but I am thinking that I want the optional Heart 2000 inverter/charger combo, instead. Other than the additional cost, which in minimal, I can't think of any reason to stay with the standard charger vs springing for the optional inverter/charger. Would appreciate any feedback? Thanks! P.S. I should also note, that the boat is also equipped with an 8kw GenSet.
Charger vs inverter/charger?
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I have recently purchased a new Catalina-Morgan 440. I won't be getting my boat delivered till spring, so I am tweeking the way the boat has been equipped and getting it outfitted just like I want it. Currently the boat has the standard battery charger but I am thinking that I want the optional Heart 2000 inverter/charger combo, instead. Other than the additional cost, which in minimal, I can't think of any reason to stay with the standard charger vs springing for the optional inverter/charger. Would appreciate any feedback? Thanks! P.S. I should also note, that the boat is also equipped with an 8kw GenSet.
Absolutely do the IC
You'll regret it if you don't. The basic chargers Catalina uses are usually Charles, and we (C34s) have not had good experience with them. Also assure that you beef up your battery bank. Once you have AC when on the hook, and can use your microwave without shorepower or a generator, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. Like autopoilots...and microwaves...
You'll regret it if you don't. The basic chargers Catalina uses are usually Charles, and we (C34s) have not had good experience with them. Also assure that you beef up your battery bank. Once you have AC when on the hook, and can use your microwave without shorepower or a generator, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. Like autopoilots...and microwaves...
Absolutely do the IC
You'll regret it if you don't. The basic chargers Catalina uses are usually Charles, and we (C34s) have not had good experience with them. Also assure that you beef up your battery bank. Once you have AC when on the hook, and can use your microwave without shorepower or a generator, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. Like autopoilots...and microwaves...
You'll regret it if you don't. The basic chargers Catalina uses are usually Charles, and we (C34s) have not had good experience with them. Also assure that you beef up your battery bank. Once you have AC when on the hook, and can use your microwave without shorepower or a generator, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. Like autopoilots...and microwaves...
Restricted to only one choice?
I agree that a combo inverter/charger is the way to go. If you are not restricted to a specific option, consider investigating some other brands. I am partial to Xantrex units, which I have installed in the most absurdly hostile conditions without them missing a beat. They are particularly useful if you anticipate having multiple charging inputs (solar, wind, shorepower, generator), since the fancy ones have integrated management of all incoming voltages for optimal battery bank maintenance. Program it once, then forget about everything except the little gauge that tells you your house bank voltage.
I agree that a combo inverter/charger is the way to go. If you are not restricted to a specific option, consider investigating some other brands. I am partial to Xantrex units, which I have installed in the most absurdly hostile conditions without them missing a beat. They are particularly useful if you anticipate having multiple charging inputs (solar, wind, shorepower, generator), since the fancy ones have integrated management of all incoming voltages for optimal battery bank maintenance. Program it once, then forget about everything except the little gauge that tells you your house bank voltage.
Restricted to only one choice?
I agree that a combo inverter/charger is the way to go. If you are not restricted to a specific option, consider investigating some other brands. I am partial to Xantrex units, which I have installed in the most absurdly hostile conditions without them missing a beat. They are particularly useful if you anticipate having multiple charging inputs (solar, wind, shorepower, generator), since the fancy ones have integrated management of all incoming voltages for optimal battery bank maintenance. Program it once, then forget about everything except the little gauge that tells you your house bank voltage.
I agree that a combo inverter/charger is the way to go. If you are not restricted to a specific option, consider investigating some other brands. I am partial to Xantrex units, which I have installed in the most absurdly hostile conditions without them missing a beat. They are particularly useful if you anticipate having multiple charging inputs (solar, wind, shorepower, generator), since the fancy ones have integrated management of all incoming voltages for optimal battery bank maintenance. Program it once, then forget about everything except the little gauge that tells you your house bank voltage.
Hi Andy, Xantrex used to be called Heart...
We replaced our original Heart 1600 with an Xantrex Freedom 25 four years ago. The recycled unit I purchased was through their store at store4power.com. Installed it myself with minimal tools. We also have two 8D wet cell batteries for the house bank that hold 480 amp hours total. Terry
We replaced our original Heart 1600 with an Xantrex Freedom 25 four years ago. The recycled unit I purchased was through their store at store4power.com. Installed it myself with minimal tools. We also have two 8D wet cell batteries for the house bank that hold 480 amp hours total. Terry
Hi Andy, Xantrex used to be called Heart...
We replaced our original Heart 1600 with an Xantrex Freedom 25 four years ago. The recycled unit I purchased was through their store at store4power.com. Installed it myself with minimal tools. We also have two 8D wet cell batteries for the house bank that hold 480 amp hours total. Terry
We replaced our original Heart 1600 with an Xantrex Freedom 25 four years ago. The recycled unit I purchased was through their store at store4power.com. Installed it myself with minimal tools. We also have two 8D wet cell batteries for the house bank that hold 480 amp hours total. Terry
Another Xantrex Option
Andy: Xantrex has excellent equipment for the price. They now have a new technology battery charger (XCxxxx). They come in 30 amp and 50 amp models for 12 or 24 volts. One of their biggest advantages is the fact that you can mix battery chemistries on the boat (if you need that option). They also only charge a single battery at a time (30 amps or as needed) for each battery (it automatically rotates around the banks). Very nice units at a reasonable price ($350 for a 30 amp unit). Xantrex also has a 1800 watt inverter (XM1800) that sells for about $300. The price for these two units are probably less expensive than the all in one unit. They are smaller, but overall they may have a larger footprint. What you are getting is their latest technology in two seperate units. If the inverter craps out, you still have the charger! I just purchase one of the inverters and will be installing it over the next few weeks.
Andy: Xantrex has excellent equipment for the price. They now have a new technology battery charger (XCxxxx). They come in 30 amp and 50 amp models for 12 or 24 volts. One of their biggest advantages is the fact that you can mix battery chemistries on the boat (if you need that option). They also only charge a single battery at a time (30 amps or as needed) for each battery (it automatically rotates around the banks). Very nice units at a reasonable price ($350 for a 30 amp unit). Xantrex also has a 1800 watt inverter (XM1800) that sells for about $300. The price for these two units are probably less expensive than the all in one unit. They are smaller, but overall they may have a larger footprint. What you are getting is their latest technology in two seperate units. If the inverter craps out, you still have the charger! I just purchase one of the inverters and will be installing it over the next few weeks.
Another Xantrex Option
Andy: Xantrex has excellent equipment for the price. They now have a new technology battery charger (XCxxxx). They come in 30 amp and 50 amp models for 12 or 24 volts. One of their biggest advantages is the fact that you can mix battery chemistries on the boat (if you need that option). They also only charge a single battery at a time (30 amps or as needed) for each battery (it automatically rotates around the banks). Very nice units at a reasonable price ($350 for a 30 amp unit). Xantrex also has a 1800 watt inverter (XM1800) that sells for about $300. The price for these two units are probably less expensive than the all in one unit. They are smaller, but overall they may have a larger footprint. What you are getting is their latest technology in two seperate units. If the inverter craps out, you still have the charger! I just purchase one of the inverters and will be installing it over the next few weeks.
Andy: Xantrex has excellent equipment for the price. They now have a new technology battery charger (XCxxxx). They come in 30 amp and 50 amp models for 12 or 24 volts. One of their biggest advantages is the fact that you can mix battery chemistries on the boat (if you need that option). They also only charge a single battery at a time (30 amps or as needed) for each battery (it automatically rotates around the banks). Very nice units at a reasonable price ($350 for a 30 amp unit). Xantrex also has a 1800 watt inverter (XM1800) that sells for about $300. The price for these two units are probably less expensive than the all in one unit. They are smaller, but overall they may have a larger footprint. What you are getting is their latest technology in two seperate units. If the inverter craps out, you still have the charger! I just purchase one of the inverters and will be installing it over the next few weeks.
Genset AND I/C
Think about what you use these two different items for when cruising. The ONLY AC you'd have with only a charger would be the genset. Now: you want to heat up your coffee or use the microwave for less than 15 minutes. So, do you fire up the genset for that? If you had the inverter, you'd just pop the switch and run the microwave. Most folks I've heard of use the genset to charge their batteries in lieu of using their engines. If you can manage your genset use to coincide with your microwave use, then go for it, but it's doubtful. We use our microwave when sailing, too, and I doubt you'd use a genset when moving. Other issues: separate vs. combined inverters and chargers. Yes, there is some merit in having separate units, but experience indicates that since they are solid state either they crap out in the first 10 minutes or last for their intended lifespans. Our Freedom 15 has been working fine for the past 9 1/2/ years. An inverter is just the charger operating backwards. I mentioned battery bank capacity in my last post: to actually be comfortable in using the inverter, which takes 10 times the amps out of the bank than a 12 volt load, you MUST have adequate house bank capacity to support the loads you intend to use. Dinky 200 AH house banks won't cut it, unless you intend to install the inverter and then never use it!
Do an energy budget including the A.C. loads via the inverter that you intend to use to properly size your house bank. A small house bank supported by a generator, I think, is nonsense. The largest house bank you can install will increase the longevity of your batteries, as well. See Calder's Boatowner's Manual. If you get a combined unit, you'll find that the charger side is much more powerful than a standalone charger. Our Freedom 15 has a 75 amp charger side, while separate chargers are usually 20 or 40 amps. Thus, you'll have an additional reason to have a robust house bank, since you don't want to have an over-sized charger compared to your house bank. Most I/Cs are now made with echo chargers, so you can safely charge your start bank without overcharging, and use the PDP as the point for connecting other charging sources (solar, alternator out) using the echo charger and avoiding extra separate combiners, echo chargers or relays. The things you have to base your decision on, including how YOU intend to use the boat, are basically cost. When we made our decision back in 1998, I compared the basic cost of the equipment: combined I/C vs separate units. But it is imperative to note that you HAVE to add in the cost of an isolation / transfer switch to assure that ONLY the (separate) inverter OR shorepower can work at any one time. These switches can be cobbled together with parts or bought as Blue Seas #8032 (see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=833.0) These cost about $150. Transfer switches are built into the combined I/C units. So the cost difference between the two is not so different, and my recollection was that separate vs combined was pretty close, even including the Link 2000 I bought with the I/C package. Of course, the Link 2000 is overkill and a Link 10 would suffice to manage your house bank, but the Link 2000 also is a controller for the combined I/C. Andy, there are lots of choices out there, but only YOU know how you'll use your boat, what your own capabilities are in installing and operating these gizmos, and what your budget is.
Think about what you use these two different items for when cruising. The ONLY AC you'd have with only a charger would be the genset. Now: you want to heat up your coffee or use the microwave for less than 15 minutes. So, do you fire up the genset for that? If you had the inverter, you'd just pop the switch and run the microwave. Most folks I've heard of use the genset to charge their batteries in lieu of using their engines. If you can manage your genset use to coincide with your microwave use, then go for it, but it's doubtful. We use our microwave when sailing, too, and I doubt you'd use a genset when moving. Other issues: separate vs. combined inverters and chargers. Yes, there is some merit in having separate units, but experience indicates that since they are solid state either they crap out in the first 10 minutes or last for their intended lifespans. Our Freedom 15 has been working fine for the past 9 1/2/ years. An inverter is just the charger operating backwards. I mentioned battery bank capacity in my last post: to actually be comfortable in using the inverter, which takes 10 times the amps out of the bank than a 12 volt load, you MUST have adequate house bank capacity to support the loads you intend to use. Dinky 200 AH house banks won't cut it, unless you intend to install the inverter and then never use it!
Do an energy budget including the A.C. loads via the inverter that you intend to use to properly size your house bank. A small house bank supported by a generator, I think, is nonsense. The largest house bank you can install will increase the longevity of your batteries, as well. See Calder's Boatowner's Manual. If you get a combined unit, you'll find that the charger side is much more powerful than a standalone charger. Our Freedom 15 has a 75 amp charger side, while separate chargers are usually 20 or 40 amps. Thus, you'll have an additional reason to have a robust house bank, since you don't want to have an over-sized charger compared to your house bank. Most I/Cs are now made with echo chargers, so you can safely charge your start bank without overcharging, and use the PDP as the point for connecting other charging sources (solar, alternator out) using the echo charger and avoiding extra separate combiners, echo chargers or relays. The things you have to base your decision on, including how YOU intend to use the boat, are basically cost. When we made our decision back in 1998, I compared the basic cost of the equipment: combined I/C vs separate units. But it is imperative to note that you HAVE to add in the cost of an isolation / transfer switch to assure that ONLY the (separate) inverter OR shorepower can work at any one time. These switches can be cobbled together with parts or bought as Blue Seas #8032 (see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=833.0) These cost about $150. Transfer switches are built into the combined I/C units. So the cost difference between the two is not so different, and my recollection was that separate vs combined was pretty close, even including the Link 2000 I bought with the I/C package. Of course, the Link 2000 is overkill and a Link 10 would suffice to manage your house bank, but the Link 2000 also is a controller for the combined I/C. Andy, there are lots of choices out there, but only YOU know how you'll use your boat, what your own capabilities are in installing and operating these gizmos, and what your budget is.
Genset AND I/C
Think about what you use these two different items for when cruising. The ONLY AC you'd have with only a charger would be the genset. Now: you want to heat up your coffee or use the microwave for less than 15 minutes. So, do you fire up the genset for that? If you had the inverter, you'd just pop the switch and run the microwave. Most folks I've heard of use the genset to charge their batteries in lieu of using their engines. If you can manage your genset use to coincide with your microwave use, then go for it, but it's doubtful. We use our microwave when sailing, too, and I doubt you'd use a genset when moving. Other issues: separate vs. combined inverters and chargers. Yes, there is some merit in having separate units, but experience indicates that since they are solid state either they crap out in the first 10 minutes or last for their intended lifespans. Our Freedom 15 has been working fine for the past 9 1/2/ years. An inverter is just the charger operating backwards. I mentioned battery bank capacity in my last post: to actually be comfortable in using the inverter, which takes 10 times the amps out of the bank than a 12 volt load, you MUST have adequate house bank capacity to support the loads you intend to use. Dinky 200 AH house banks won't cut it, unless you intend to install the inverter and then never use it! Do an energy budget including the A.C. loads via the inverter that you intend to use to properly size your house bank. A small house bank supported by a generator, I think, is nonsense. The largest house bank you can install will increase the longevity of your batteries, as well. See Calder's Boatowner's Manual. If you get a combined unit, you'll find that the charger side is much more powerful than a standalone charger. Our Freedom 15 has a 75 amp charger side, while separate chargers are usually 20 or 40 amps. Thus, you'll have an additional reason to have a robust house bank, since you don't want to have an over-sized charger compared to your house bank. Most I/Cs are now made with echo chargers, so you can safely charge your start bank without overcharging, and use the PDP as the point for connecting other charging sources (solar, alternator out) using the echo charger and avoiding extra separate combiners, echo chargers or relays. The things you have to base your decision on, including how YOU intend to use the boat, are basically cost. When we made our decision back in 1998, I compared the basic cost of the equipment: combined I/C vs separate units. But it is imperative to note that you HAVE to add in the cost of an isolation / transfer switch to assure that ONLY the (separate) inverter OR shorepower can work at any one time. These switches can be cobbled together with parts or bought as Blue Seas #8032 (see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=833.0) These cost about $150. Transfer switches are built into the combined I/C units. So the cost difference between the two is not so different, and my recollection was that separate vs combined was pretty close, even including the Link 2000 I bought with the I/C package. Of course, the Link 2000 is overkill and a Link 10 would suffice to manage your house bank, but the Link 2000 also is a controller for the combined I/C. Andy, there are lots of choices out there, but only YOU know how you'll use your boat, what your own capabilities are in installing and operating these gizmos, and what your budget is.
Think about what you use these two different items for when cruising. The ONLY AC you'd have with only a charger would be the genset. Now: you want to heat up your coffee or use the microwave for less than 15 minutes. So, do you fire up the genset for that? If you had the inverter, you'd just pop the switch and run the microwave. Most folks I've heard of use the genset to charge their batteries in lieu of using their engines. If you can manage your genset use to coincide with your microwave use, then go for it, but it's doubtful. We use our microwave when sailing, too, and I doubt you'd use a genset when moving. Other issues: separate vs. combined inverters and chargers. Yes, there is some merit in having separate units, but experience indicates that since they are solid state either they crap out in the first 10 minutes or last for their intended lifespans. Our Freedom 15 has been working fine for the past 9 1/2/ years. An inverter is just the charger operating backwards. I mentioned battery bank capacity in my last post: to actually be comfortable in using the inverter, which takes 10 times the amps out of the bank than a 12 volt load, you MUST have adequate house bank capacity to support the loads you intend to use. Dinky 200 AH house banks won't cut it, unless you intend to install the inverter and then never use it!
Do an energy budget including the A.C. loads via the inverter that you intend to use to properly size your house bank. A small house bank supported by a generator, I think, is nonsense. The largest house bank you can install will increase the longevity of your batteries, as well. See Calder's Boatowner's Manual. If you get a combined unit, you'll find that the charger side is much more powerful than a standalone charger. Our Freedom 15 has a 75 amp charger side, while separate chargers are usually 20 or 40 amps. Thus, you'll have an additional reason to have a robust house bank, since you don't want to have an over-sized charger compared to your house bank. Most I/Cs are now made with echo chargers, so you can safely charge your start bank without overcharging, and use the PDP as the point for connecting other charging sources (solar, alternator out) using the echo charger and avoiding extra separate combiners, echo chargers or relays. The things you have to base your decision on, including how YOU intend to use the boat, are basically cost. When we made our decision back in 1998, I compared the basic cost of the equipment: combined I/C vs separate units. But it is imperative to note that you HAVE to add in the cost of an isolation / transfer switch to assure that ONLY the (separate) inverter OR shorepower can work at any one time. These switches can be cobbled together with parts or bought as Blue Seas #8032 (see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=833.0) These cost about $150. Transfer switches are built into the combined I/C units. So the cost difference between the two is not so different, and my recollection was that separate vs combined was pretty close, even including the Link 2000 I bought with the I/C package. Of course, the Link 2000 is overkill and a Link 10 would suffice to manage your house bank, but the Link 2000 also is a controller for the combined I/C. Andy, there are lots of choices out there, but only YOU know how you'll use your boat, what your own capabilities are in installing and operating these gizmos, and what your budget is.
Try this link
Try this site. A good friend of mine took delivery in May of a 440 and can help with your question.
Try this site. A good friend of mine took delivery in May of a 440 and can help with your question.
Try this link
Try this site. A good friend of mine took delivery in May of a 440 and can help with your question.
Try this site. A good friend of mine took delivery in May of a 440 and can help with your question.
Charger / Inverter is the only way to go
Andy, I took delivery of my CM440 #48 last May. Catalina would not put an inverter in because I had an genset. So my boat came with the standard Charles 60 amp charger. I then modified the boat once I got it. I put all 3 8D batteries together as on bank and then added 2 X Group 31 start batteries for starting the engine and genset. I also added a Xantrex MS200 Inverter Charger. The Inverter/Charger and start batteries are under the galley floor. I then hooked the factory installed Charles 60 amp charger to the start batteries. If I was to do it over again the only thing I would do different is I would put a MS3000 in instead of the 2000. I never would use more than the inverter can put out (2000 W) but on the charging side when I start the genset the MS2000 puts out its max of 100 amps for a while, I would rather have the 150 amp on the MS3000. The MS2000/3000 mod is not inexpensive but the CM440 is a power hungry boat. I did all the work my self, I had terrible experience with the dealer’s workmanship http://www.catalina440.org/shake-down_cruise_hull_1.htm so if you are going to have someone do the work make sure they are competent! Just being a Catalina Dealer does not guarantee good work! I invite you to register on the Catalina Morgan 440 Owners site for more information on your new boat. http://www.catalina440.org/ Paul
Andy, I took delivery of my CM440 #48 last May. Catalina would not put an inverter in because I had an genset. So my boat came with the standard Charles 60 amp charger. I then modified the boat once I got it. I put all 3 8D batteries together as on bank and then added 2 X Group 31 start batteries for starting the engine and genset. I also added a Xantrex MS200 Inverter Charger. The Inverter/Charger and start batteries are under the galley floor. I then hooked the factory installed Charles 60 amp charger to the start batteries. If I was to do it over again the only thing I would do different is I would put a MS3000 in instead of the 2000. I never would use more than the inverter can put out (2000 W) but on the charging side when I start the genset the MS2000 puts out its max of 100 amps for a while, I would rather have the 150 amp on the MS3000. The MS2000/3000 mod is not inexpensive but the CM440 is a power hungry boat. I did all the work my self, I had terrible experience with the dealer’s workmanship http://www.catalina440.org/shake-down_cruise_hull_1.htm so if you are going to have someone do the work make sure they are competent! Just being a Catalina Dealer does not guarantee good work! I invite you to register on the Catalina Morgan 440 Owners site for more information on your new boat. http://www.catalina440.org/ Paul
Charger / Inverter is the only way to go
Andy, I took delivery of my CM440 #48 last May. Catalina would not put an inverter in because I had an genset. So my boat came with the standard Charles 60 amp charger. I then modified the boat once I got it. I put all 3 8D batteries together as on bank and then added 2 X Group 31 start batteries for starting the engine and genset. I also added a Xantrex MS200 Inverter Charger. The Inverter/Charger and start batteries are under the galley floor. I then hooked the factory installed Charles 60 amp charger to the start batteries. If I was to do it over again the only thing I would do different is I would put a MS3000 in instead of the 2000. I never would use more than the inverter can put out (2000 W) but on the charging side when I start the genset the MS2000 puts out its max of 100 amps for a while, I would rather have the 150 amp on the MS3000. The MS2000/3000 mod is not inexpensive but the CM440 is a power hungry boat. I did all the work my self, I had terrible experience with the dealer’s workmanship http://www.catalina440.org/shake-down_cruise_hull_1.htm so if you are going to have someone do the work make sure they are competent! Just being a Catalina Dealer does not guarantee good work! I invite you to register on the Catalina Morgan 440 Owners site for more information on your new boat. http://www.catalina440.org/ Paul
Andy, I took delivery of my CM440 #48 last May. Catalina would not put an inverter in because I had an genset. So my boat came with the standard Charles 60 amp charger. I then modified the boat once I got it. I put all 3 8D batteries together as on bank and then added 2 X Group 31 start batteries for starting the engine and genset. I also added a Xantrex MS200 Inverter Charger. The Inverter/Charger and start batteries are under the galley floor. I then hooked the factory installed Charles 60 amp charger to the start batteries. If I was to do it over again the only thing I would do different is I would put a MS3000 in instead of the 2000. I never would use more than the inverter can put out (2000 W) but on the charging side when I start the genset the MS2000 puts out its max of 100 amps for a while, I would rather have the 150 amp on the MS3000. The MS2000/3000 mod is not inexpensive but the CM440 is a power hungry boat. I did all the work my self, I had terrible experience with the dealer’s workmanship http://www.catalina440.org/shake-down_cruise_hull_1.htm so if you are going to have someone do the work make sure they are competent! Just being a Catalina Dealer does not guarantee good work! I invite you to register on the Catalina Morgan 440 Owners site for more information on your new boat. http://www.catalina440.org/ Paul
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