Charge voltage

Sep 10, 2012
228
Hunter 450 Gulfport, Florida
AGM batteries, Gel cells, etc. require a higher charging voltage than a standard lead acid, but in trying understanding the chemistry involved does this apply to the sealed lead acid AGM that are becoming common. Most alternator and Inverter/Chargers that I am familiar with are set up for the old school leads. Do you modify the voltage charge levels to accomadate the new type or is it better to stick with the garden variety old technology. I may need to replace my two 8D's and would prefer that they last a while.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
6 volt

I did change my 2-4D's when they were shot to 4-6volt trojan's and added
2 solar panels and charge controller rather than go for the more pricey batteries.
Have been very happy with the wet cell Trojan's and solar panels and we have
a lot of extra 12 volt usage on our H-36,the investment into solar I felt was a wise way to go for us because we anchor out more than at a marina.
Nick
 
Sep 10, 2012
228
Hunter 450 Gulfport, Florida
I did change my 2-4D's when they were shot to 4-6volt trojan's and added
2 solar panels and charge controller rather than go for the more pricey batteries.
Have been very happy with the wet cell Trojan's and solar panels and we have
a lot of extra 12 volt usage on our H-36,the investment into solar I felt was a wise way to go for us because we anchor out more than at a marina.
Nick
I currently have two 8D's and was surprised that several 4D's seem to have similar AH ability to provide. I have yet to figure out the advantage of the larger heavier batteries although I am sure there is one. Trojan also builds some very high end lead acid AGM's and that is where my confusion enters.
 
Sep 10, 2012
228
Hunter 450 Gulfport, Florida
Ooh, it seems that perhaps there are a whole lot of folks that don't know the answer and it would seem quite important. I will go to the manufacturers and see what they say and update here.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,716
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Ooh, it seems that perhaps there are a whole lot of folks that don't know the answer and it would seem quite important. I will go to the manufacturers and see what they say and update here.

There is no cut and dry answer...

With any battery you need to follow the manufacturers suggestions on charging voltage. Very few chargers are properly set up for all brands and types of batteries. Quite frankly most chargers stink and the "smart" label is just that a label......

GEL's for example should not be charged at more than 14.1V absorption but then floated at 13.8V. Both of these of course temp compensated. Over charging GEL's puts bubbles into the Jello like electrolyte which are irreversible. Properly charged GEL batteries are some of the longest lasting.

Lifeline AGM's charge at 14.4V absorption and have a lower float of 13.3 - 13.4V both of these should be temp compensated.

Odyssey AGM's charge at higher voltages than Lifeline and if charged at lower voltages lsuffer from shorter cycle life... Odyssey's charge at 14.6V - 14.7V absorption and 13.5V - 13.6V for float. This again must be temp compensated..

Trojan flooded batteries prefer to be charged at 14.7 - 14.8V absorption and float at 13.2V to 13.4V. This too should ideally be temp compensated.

AGM batteries such as Lifeline and Odyssey also require minimum charge currents for the longest cycle life, with more being better. Odyssey requires 40% of "C" (Min - 160A for a 400Ah bank) and Lifeline has a minimum of 20% of "C" (Min - 80A for a 400Ah bank)...

As one can see it is not a simple answer and is far beyond the three settings you find on most crappy "smart" chargers....
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,852
Hunter 49 toronto
6 volt batteries

There is no cut and dry answer...

With any battery you need to follow the manufacturers suggestions on charging voltage. Very few chargers are properly set up for all brands and types of batteries. Quite frankly most chargers stink and the "smart" label is just that a label......

GEL's for example should not be charged at more than 14.1V absorption but then floated at 13.8V. Both of these of course temp compensated. Over charging GEL's puts bubbles into the Jello like electrolyte which are irreversible. Properly charged GEL batteries are some of the longest lasting.

Lifeline AGM's charge at 14.4V absorption and have a lower float of 13.3 - 13.4V both of these should be temp compensated.

Odyssey AGM's charge at higher voltages than Lifeline and if charged at lower voltages lsuffer from shorter cycle life... Odyssey's charge at 14.6V - 14.7V absorption and 13.5V - 13.6V for float. This again must be temp compensated..

Trojan flooded batteries prefer to be charged at 14.7 - 14.8V absorption and float at 13.2V to 13.4V. This too should ideally be temp compensated.

AGM batteries such as Lifeline and Odyssey also require minimum charge currents for the longest cycle life, with more being better. Odyssey requires 40% of "C" (Min - 160A for a 400Ah bank) and Lifeline has a minimum of 20% of "C" (Min - 80A for a 400Ah bank)...

As one can see it is not a simple answer and is far beyond the three settings you find on most crappy "smart" chargers....
Here is why I have 6 volt batteries.
I can easily lift them
They last a long time when charged properly
They cost a lot less.
If you go with wet cell batteries, get water miser caps.
They are great. Only need to top up water once per season.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,716
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Here is why I have 6 volt batteries.
I can easily lift them
They last a long time when charged properly
They cost a lot less.
If you go with wet cell batteries, get water miser caps.
They are great. Only need to top up water once per season.

A problem many make is to replace the cheap batteries the builder installed, assuming they are the right battery for the application, when most often they are not.
Folks often make the mistake of size matters and they need to stop looking at batteries based on physical size and look at the intended use.

The only 4D & 8D batteries I am aware of, marketed in the US, that are actually available in a true "deep cycle", are the following:

*Lifeline AGM 4D & 8D
*Dyno 4D & 8D Deep Cycle
*Deka / East Penn Gel 4D & 8D (private labeled to many other brands)
*Trojan 8D GEL

I may have missed one but have not had my coffee yet.. Every other 4D or 8D battery out there is really a starting or dual purpose truck battery NOT a true deep cycle battery.. 4D & 8D are best optimized for starting large diesels NOT cycling applications. They are also well optimized for keeping your spine surgeon in business.;);)

There are big differences between typical 12V "marine batteries" and 6V deep cycle batteries in terms of cycle life, which is really what you want.

When buying batteries one must consider well beyond just Ah capacity. The most critical aspect to longevity will be the cycle life or how many cycles to 50% DOD you can pull off.

Most all 12V "deep cycle" marine batteries are imposters including top end brands like the Trojan 12V G-24/SCS-150, G-27/SCS-200 & G-31/SCS-225... They are not a true deep cycle battery and will yield far less cycles than a 6V GC2 battery which really is a deep cycling battery. Trojan rates the SCS deep cycle 12V line at about half the rated cycles as their own 6V T105 golf cart battery. HALF!!!!:doh:

Some brands will claim more cycles than others in these group sizes but none compete directly with a 6V GC2 in terms of cycle life. Cycle life data across brands always needs to be ignored. There is no standard for rating batteries for cycle life so best to use data across a single manufacturers product line..

When buying batteries you are not just buying Ah capacity you are buying cycle life & expected durability and longevity.

There are 12V golf cart batteries such as the Trojan T1275, and they do have the same cycle life as a 6V, but they are also taller, like the 6V, and a built to use the same plates thickness as a GC2 battery. These are not your typical 4D, 8D, Group 31, 27 or 24 battery. Group 4D, 8D, 24, 27 & 31 batteries simply do not have the plate thickness a GC2 battery does with very few exceptions.

Deka/East Penn is perhaps the largest private labeler of marine batteries in the USyet their only true deep cycle battery in the 4D or 8D case is a GEL battery. They simply DO NOT make a deep cycle flooded 4D or 8D.

Many unscrupulous companies insist on labeling 4D & 8D's as "deep cycle" but when compared to true deep cycle batteries this label is just that, a label, but not the truth..

There are more re-branded East Penn batteries out there than any other I know of in the marine market.. One example the Deka / Sea Volt / West Marine line. In that line up you have starting, dual purpose and deep cycle 4D, 8D, G-24, 27 & 31 12V batteries which all share the same case. They simply do not offer a deep cycle 4D or 8D other than GEL, because it does not exist in the East Penn line up...

However, the G 24, 27 & 31 are only really deep cycle when compared to the starting or dual purpose batteries with which share the identical case. They are not deep cycle when compared to the GC2 or other true deep cycle batteries..

Here's the data across the Deka / East Penn / West Marine line up:

Flooded Batteries - Group 24, 27, 31 & 6V GC2

12V Starting - Cycles to 50% = Not Rated
12V Dual Purpose - Cycles to 50% = 200 (*4D & 8D flooded)
12V Deep Cycle - Cycles to 50% = 350
6V Golf Cart - Cycles to 50% = 700-1000


*Note: The above are LAB RATED cycles across a single manufacturers data set. Expect considerably less in the real world.. East Penn is at least somewhat conservative in its ratings compared to others....

As one can see the 12V "deep cycle" battery is only a "deep cycle" when compared to the starting or dual purpose batteries it shares a case with. If you absolutely must buy a 12V Group 24, 27 or 31 buy the deep cycle version. If you absolutely must buy a 4D or 8D buy GEL or Lifeline AGM otherwise find a way to fit GC2 6V batteries. In many cases a 12V deep cycle is all that will fit due to height restrictions.:doh:

It is easy to see from the raw manufacturer data that these are NOT deep cycle when compared to a real deep cycle battery. "Deep Cycle" does not always mean deep cycle and long life.....

The only ones that have lab rated cycles for flooded 12V batteries the same or close, to their own brands 6V batteries, are Lifeline and the US Battery DCXC 12V series (at least those are the claims). In the real world I see US Batteries 6V GC2's outlast the 12V DCXC by a fair margin pretty consistently...

I know of no other brand, other than those listed above, that will rate their 4D, 8D, G-24, G-27 or G-31 flooded batteries at even half the cycles of their GC2 6V batteries.

The Deka / East Penn / WM product in 4D, 8D, 24,27 & 31 is less than half the rated cycles as their own 6V GC2 and these are by far the most popular marine batteries out there....

The bottom line..... Don't just buy on Ah's buy on expected cycle life and buy a battery physically designed and intended for deep cycling not an imposter just labeled as a "deep cycle".......

Imposter Deep Cycle Batteries = Most Group 24, 27 & 31 plus most 4D & 8D's

True Deep Cycle Batteries = 6V GC2/T105, 6V J305, 6V L-16, 12V Golf Cart eg: Trojan T1275 etc..