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Not talked about much....
Jim: One product that works good is butyl tape. This is the stuff that they use for windows. It comes like a tape (on a roll). You just clean the surfaces well and then apply the butyl tape. Then you snug down the chain plate. It stay plyable and seal well.
Jim: One product that works good is butyl tape. This is the stuff that they use for windows. It comes like a tape (on a roll). You just clean the surfaces well and then apply the butyl tape. Then you snug down the chain plate. It stay plyable and seal well.
a better description
To describe better-I have leaks where the chainplates go through the deck. Any ideas?
To describe better-I have leaks where the chainplates go through the deck. Any ideas?
Two ideas.
It may not be the chainplates Jim. I have this theory that the path of least resistance from the toerails might be the chainplates. If the core gets wet from any source then there is not much to keep it from weeping down the chainplates. A toerail fix is really time-consuming and pretty difficult. It's a pretty simple job to seal the chainplates at the deck. Remove the small covers and clean those. Clean all the old sealant from around the chainplates. Mask off the area that is not under the little cover. Use a good polysulfide, I like Life-Caulk from BoatLife. Steve's idea about butyl tape has merit but over the caulk or under it? On my chainplate covers you can see the sealant at the edges and in the slot. Water won't get in that way. The ideal fix would be to cut out a four-inch square of deck f/g around the chainplate. Then remove a small amount of coring right down to the inner liner. Fill that space with an epoxy resin mix and glue the deck piece back on. This fix is a major project and probably also requires a new non-skid paint job. I am debating this because I am painting the decks. Good luck with your fix.
It may not be the chainplates Jim. I have this theory that the path of least resistance from the toerails might be the chainplates. If the core gets wet from any source then there is not much to keep it from weeping down the chainplates. A toerail fix is really time-consuming and pretty difficult. It's a pretty simple job to seal the chainplates at the deck. Remove the small covers and clean those. Clean all the old sealant from around the chainplates. Mask off the area that is not under the little cover. Use a good polysulfide, I like Life-Caulk from BoatLife. Steve's idea about butyl tape has merit but over the caulk or under it? On my chainplate covers you can see the sealant at the edges and in the slot. Water won't get in that way. The ideal fix would be to cut out a four-inch square of deck f/g around the chainplate. Then remove a small amount of coring right down to the inner liner. Fill that space with an epoxy resin mix and glue the deck piece back on. This fix is a major project and probably also requires a new non-skid paint job. I am debating this because I am painting the decks. Good luck with your fix.
My solution...
...to chronic chainplate leaks was driven by extreme frustration. Ed is right...this can be a hard job to do right. After doing all the recommended - and unrecommended - fixes, none of which held up very well (possibly there was some movement between the deck and the chain plate) I did the following: I thoroughly cleaned and sanded the areas under the little covers, and about a half inch more. Then, using that kind of easily molded epoxy that comes in a stick, I fashioned a lip that is a bit more than a quarter of an inch high, mounted on the deck, slightly outside the edges of the covers. The lip formed a dam to contain a very thick gasket of 5200 that I floated the chainplate covers on, at about the top level of the lip. I screwed them down to this level, squeazing out some 5200. The area had been masked, so clean up was no problem. The lip is not structural. In the end, I have a tenacious seal of 5200,about a quarter of an inch thick, surrounded by the epoxy lip. For those who shudder at the thought of removing the 5200, I left space between the lip and the chainplate cover, so that I can run a knife underneath. Actually, in my experience, the main reason you would ever want to remove the chainplate covers is when they leak, so if I can make them REALLY leakproof............you get the picture! By the way, so far, so good. Incidentally, the 5200 was thick enough so that it took over a week to really cure....hence the little lips to hold everything in correctly. They don't look bad, either, and the covers are up, off the deck, which makes them less inclined to leak, in the first place. Good luck, and as has been previously mentioned, your leak may be something else, entirely. Check your stanchions!
...to chronic chainplate leaks was driven by extreme frustration. Ed is right...this can be a hard job to do right. After doing all the recommended - and unrecommended - fixes, none of which held up very well (possibly there was some movement between the deck and the chain plate) I did the following: I thoroughly cleaned and sanded the areas under the little covers, and about a half inch more. Then, using that kind of easily molded epoxy that comes in a stick, I fashioned a lip that is a bit more than a quarter of an inch high, mounted on the deck, slightly outside the edges of the covers. The lip formed a dam to contain a very thick gasket of 5200 that I floated the chainplate covers on, at about the top level of the lip. I screwed them down to this level, squeazing out some 5200. The area had been masked, so clean up was no problem. The lip is not structural. In the end, I have a tenacious seal of 5200,about a quarter of an inch thick, surrounded by the epoxy lip. For those who shudder at the thought of removing the 5200, I left space between the lip and the chainplate cover, so that I can run a knife underneath. Actually, in my experience, the main reason you would ever want to remove the chainplate covers is when they leak, so if I can make them REALLY leakproof............you get the picture! By the way, so far, so good. Incidentally, the 5200 was thick enough so that it took over a week to really cure....hence the little lips to hold everything in correctly. They don't look bad, either, and the covers are up, off the deck, which makes them less inclined to leak, in the first place. Good luck, and as has been previously mentioned, your leak may be something else, entirely. Check your stanchions!
Here's what I did, working great!
Jim, If you'll visit some of the old threads you'll see some reference to chainplates cracking at the top bolt hole attach point. Gene on "Rainbow Chaser" first alerted me to this problem and when checking my chainplates I discovered some small cracks in the exact location he did. I also know of at least one other 37C that had a complete chainplate failure on the upper STBD shroud but due to a healthy design of the rigging and a strong mast the rig held and there was no other damage, Great testimony to John Cherubini's design and a strong argument for leaving the cutter rig alone rather than modifying it to a sloop as some have done successfully. The additional shrouds and running backstays literally saved this guy's rigging from collapse. OK enough of that, motto is if you've got some leaks and you're going to fix them, you might as well do the chainplates to a bigger size at the same time and get it over with. Here's what I did; When you try to fix a leak without removing the chainplate on the 37C you are limited as to the access under the escutchion plate as the reinforcing washers welded to the chainplate will not let you get the plate up high enough to really get at it and inspect the wood. If it's leaking the wood is wet, plain and simple in the deck, no way around this. The good news is, Hunter used marine plywood in the core and the material has stood the test of time on my boat which was leaking for a long time at least around one chainplate. If you want to do this right, remove the chainplates completely from the bulkheads, they remove by unbolting the 5ea. 3/8" bolts, washers, nuts and backing plate and pulling them up from the deck, mark where each chainplate and backing plate came from so you can reinstall in the same position if you reuse them. Now you have complete access to the deck and can see what is going on. Your mid-stay and running backstays will support your rig fine while you do repairs and let the wood dry out. Check the chainplates for cracks and determine if you want to reuse them. If you are contemplating any serious offshore work I would strongly consider replacement with a 316 barstock that is equal to the thickness of the original including the welded washers throughout the entire thickness. I believe this was 3/8" or 1/2". With this decision made, you can work on the decking. If you reuse the original parts, let the wood dry out, remove any bad spots and epoxy the entire exposed area with a west system or equivalent epoxy. This will eliminate any water in the deck again regardless if the chainplate leaks or not. If you go to a larger chainplate, you'll have to remove some additional material and grind the epoxied surfaces to fit the thicker chainplates, not a big deal. The escutchion plate slot will also have to be enlarged to fit the new chainplate. You can make the chainplates yourself or have a machine shop do it for you, they are not that expensive. Once you're ready to reassemble, I installed and bolted the chainplate in place, filled the entire gap with 3M5200 flush to the deck and let that dry. I then slipped the escutchion plate over the chainplate and used lifecauk so I could reseal if necessary in the future. If you reuse your old chainplate you'll have to seal under the deck plate as it won't slip over the welded washers on the top. That's why they leaked in the first place, it's hard to do. Good luck, it's not really that bad and the peace of mind is worthwhile. Mine have never leaked since! Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
Jim, If you'll visit some of the old threads you'll see some reference to chainplates cracking at the top bolt hole attach point. Gene on "Rainbow Chaser" first alerted me to this problem and when checking my chainplates I discovered some small cracks in the exact location he did. I also know of at least one other 37C that had a complete chainplate failure on the upper STBD shroud but due to a healthy design of the rigging and a strong mast the rig held and there was no other damage, Great testimony to John Cherubini's design and a strong argument for leaving the cutter rig alone rather than modifying it to a sloop as some have done successfully. The additional shrouds and running backstays literally saved this guy's rigging from collapse. OK enough of that, motto is if you've got some leaks and you're going to fix them, you might as well do the chainplates to a bigger size at the same time and get it over with. Here's what I did; When you try to fix a leak without removing the chainplate on the 37C you are limited as to the access under the escutchion plate as the reinforcing washers welded to the chainplate will not let you get the plate up high enough to really get at it and inspect the wood. If it's leaking the wood is wet, plain and simple in the deck, no way around this. The good news is, Hunter used marine plywood in the core and the material has stood the test of time on my boat which was leaking for a long time at least around one chainplate. If you want to do this right, remove the chainplates completely from the bulkheads, they remove by unbolting the 5ea. 3/8" bolts, washers, nuts and backing plate and pulling them up from the deck, mark where each chainplate and backing plate came from so you can reinstall in the same position if you reuse them. Now you have complete access to the deck and can see what is going on. Your mid-stay and running backstays will support your rig fine while you do repairs and let the wood dry out. Check the chainplates for cracks and determine if you want to reuse them. If you are contemplating any serious offshore work I would strongly consider replacement with a 316 barstock that is equal to the thickness of the original including the welded washers throughout the entire thickness. I believe this was 3/8" or 1/2". With this decision made, you can work on the decking. If you reuse the original parts, let the wood dry out, remove any bad spots and epoxy the entire exposed area with a west system or equivalent epoxy. This will eliminate any water in the deck again regardless if the chainplate leaks or not. If you go to a larger chainplate, you'll have to remove some additional material and grind the epoxied surfaces to fit the thicker chainplates, not a big deal. The escutchion plate slot will also have to be enlarged to fit the new chainplate. You can make the chainplates yourself or have a machine shop do it for you, they are not that expensive. Once you're ready to reassemble, I installed and bolted the chainplate in place, filled the entire gap with 3M5200 flush to the deck and let that dry. I then slipped the escutchion plate over the chainplate and used lifecauk so I could reseal if necessary in the future. If you reuse your old chainplate you'll have to seal under the deck plate as it won't slip over the welded washers on the top. That's why they leaked in the first place, it's hard to do. Good luck, it's not really that bad and the peace of mind is worthwhile. Mine have never leaked since! Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
Ed, I agree with Tom.....
That the best way to do it is to dry and inspect. I did not mention that since I live in a desert climate, I was able to acertain that the core was dry before filling with the 5200. I did not have to remove the chainplates, as I could also inspect them. The 33 also has those welded washers which limit the movement of the cover plates, but perhaps they are not as restrictive as on the 37. Also, I am not aware of any weakness in the 33 chainplates, so I did not beef that area up, although I will admit that it did cross my mind, on general principles. By the way, my best rigging upgrade was to ditch the split backstay in favor of twins. It REALLY opened up the cockpit and made installation of the sliding solar bimini much simpler. You asked where I am....I am in my last few days working as manager here at the Marina....Casual Water has a few more days of prep, although I really have only two, small, "must" projects.But, there are a couple more things I want to do to catch up with my latest round of "ingenious" modifications LOL!!!!! ANYWAY...on April 15, I am a free man. As you may recall, the plan has been to head to the South Pacific this Spring, but I may squeeze in a final tour of my beloved Sea of Cortez this summer, and head West in December. A good friend sailed in from the Marquesas a few months ago, and opined that the best time to go, contrary to custom, is December. He is an excellent sailor and a good judge, and he has spent quite a few years in Polynesia, and had lots of cogent reasons, so I am giving it a lot of thought. I WOULD like to go up into the Sea, once again, but I am also really itching to head West, as soon as possible. Decisions, decisions! I am wondering if Phil might have any use for twenty years of H33 upgrades (I am about to purchase a digital camera) or in a transpacific journal from a humble, aging, Cherubini Hunter 33
...we will see, and thanks for asking about my progress!
That the best way to do it is to dry and inspect. I did not mention that since I live in a desert climate, I was able to acertain that the core was dry before filling with the 5200. I did not have to remove the chainplates, as I could also inspect them. The 33 also has those welded washers which limit the movement of the cover plates, but perhaps they are not as restrictive as on the 37. Also, I am not aware of any weakness in the 33 chainplates, so I did not beef that area up, although I will admit that it did cross my mind, on general principles. By the way, my best rigging upgrade was to ditch the split backstay in favor of twins. It REALLY opened up the cockpit and made installation of the sliding solar bimini much simpler. You asked where I am....I am in my last few days working as manager here at the Marina....Casual Water has a few more days of prep, although I really have only two, small, "must" projects.But, there are a couple more things I want to do to catch up with my latest round of "ingenious" modifications LOL!!!!! ANYWAY...on April 15, I am a free man. As you may recall, the plan has been to head to the South Pacific this Spring, but I may squeeze in a final tour of my beloved Sea of Cortez this summer, and head West in December. A good friend sailed in from the Marquesas a few months ago, and opined that the best time to go, contrary to custom, is December. He is an excellent sailor and a good judge, and he has spent quite a few years in Polynesia, and had lots of cogent reasons, so I am giving it a lot of thought. I WOULD like to go up into the Sea, once again, but I am also really itching to head West, as soon as possible. Decisions, decisions! I am wondering if Phil might have any use for twenty years of H33 upgrades (I am about to purchase a digital camera) or in a transpacific journal from a humble, aging, Cherubini Hunter 33
...we will see, and thanks for asking about my progress!Tim, Hope to join you one day...
Hope your decision on where to head first resolves quickly and that you are able to feel the wind in your sails heading west. I was hoping on maybe seeing you in Cabo some day as that is a definate destination plan for us. We'll, who knows, we may cross paths in some distant anchorage somewhere but I'm a ways behind you in preparation and departure time. Fair winds and smooth sailing, we'll look forward to your cruise notes on your progress. Maybe we'll get Ed out of fresh water and have a Cherubini reunion somewhere! Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
Hope your decision on where to head first resolves quickly and that you are able to feel the wind in your sails heading west. I was hoping on maybe seeing you in Cabo some day as that is a definate destination plan for us. We'll, who knows, we may cross paths in some distant anchorage somewhere but I'm a ways behind you in preparation and departure time. Fair winds and smooth sailing, we'll look forward to your cruise notes on your progress. Maybe we'll get Ed out of fresh water and have a Cherubini reunion somewhere! Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
Thanks, Tom.....
....for your good wishes. And DON'T wait for too long. It doesn't cost as much as one thinks, and I believe we regret more the things we didn't do, than the things we did! Now, what I would REALLY like, is a Hunter get-together, (Cherubinis and Others) in some distant anchorage....if for no other reason than to give people a reson to get there!
....for your good wishes. And DON'T wait for too long. It doesn't cost as much as one thinks, and I believe we regret more the things we didn't do, than the things we did! Now, what I would REALLY like, is a Hunter get-together, (Cherubinis and Others) in some distant anchorage....if for no other reason than to give people a reson to get there!
Distant anchorage.
Middle Bass Island would be a "Distant Anchorage" for Tim and Tom. There are lots of Cherubinis close by, it would be a heck of a good time. See "Related Link".
Middle Bass Island would be a "Distant Anchorage" for Tim and Tom. There are lots of Cherubinis close by, it would be a heck of a good time.
See "Related Link".Are you sure about Middle Bass?
Ed, I checked Middle Bass Island website, per your suggestion, and it was 37 degrees and had 95 mph winds. And I had been complaining because San Diego was cloudy (partly) and cool (70 degrees) last week when it was 87 here in Northern California! Let's have that gathering in a warmer clime. The Sea of Cortez sounds better all the time. Cheers, Sanders
Ed, I checked Middle Bass Island website, per your suggestion, and it was 37 degrees and had 95 mph winds. And I had been complaining because San Diego was cloudy (partly) and cool (70 degrees) last week when it was 87 here in Northern California! Let's have that gathering in a warmer clime. The Sea of Cortez sounds better all the time. Cheers, Sanders
At least we can fish...
in the Sea of Cortez. Gene Gruender looks like he did pretty good when he was there, perhaps we can enlist him as a fishing guide. Southern climes sound best to me! Where the hell is Middle Bass Island anyway? Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
in the Sea of Cortez. Gene Gruender looks like he did pretty good when he was there, perhaps we can enlist him as a fishing guide. Southern climes sound best to me! Where the hell is Middle Bass Island anyway? Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
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