Cetol application problems

[Kendallb183]

I'm applying cetol marine gloss to a teak table. I previously applied 3 coats to part of the table by following the sand, wipe with special thinner, then reapply. It turned out amazing.

Now I'm trying to do the rest of the table but after I let the first coat dry or the second coat dry when I wipe it with the special thinner it starts rubbing the cetol off/peeling. Right after I sand it's perfectly smooth and as soon as I apply the special thinner it starts rubbing into small balls of product and starts wearing off the new layer of cetol that was applied. After the thinner drys it looks like the picture attached

 

[Will Gilmore]

How long are you letting it dry between coats and what grit are you sanding it to?
I've never worked with Cetol, but for some high gloss finishes, if you let it set up too hard before applying the next coat, you sometimes need a coarser bite to lay the next layer on. If you aren't letting it dry enough, especially after the initial layers, you might just be wiping it right back up with your "special" cleaner.
Read the directions very carefully. There's likely different application methods depending on the dry time between coats.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Kendallb183]

I'm allowing 48 hrs dry time, cetol calls for 24. The special thinner is also called out to be used.
I'm sanding to 220

 

[Will Gilmore]

You want to get @TomY 's advice. He uses Cetol all the time with amazing results.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Will Gilmore]

Cetol Instructions pdf.
Here's a link to the Cetol pdf instructions.
It looks like only 2 to 3 coats is recommended. You are describing above, the reverse procedure outlined in the instructions.

sand, wipe with special thinner, then reapply

The instructions say, 1. Clean, 2. Sand, 3. Clean off sanding residue (just wipe with a clean rag), 4. Apply new coat.

From the manual:
"NEW EXTERIOR/INTERIOR WOOD: It is essential to remove any surface oils and contaminants prior to sanding and application of Cetol® Marine Natural Teak. Sand surfaces with 180-220 (grade) grit paper (always sand along the length of the grain). Remove all sanding residue prior to application of Cetol® Marine Natural Teak. EXTERIOR/INTERIOR - PREVIOUSLY COATED WOOD : Remove all coatings prior to application of Cetol® Marine Natural Teak. To remove old coating, either sand with 120- 180 (grade) grit paper or use Interlux Interstrip 299E chemical stripper which has been designed for marine use. Once previous coating has been removed, follow instructions for New Exterior/Interior wood."

You should be following the directions only for "new" wood here. I would also interpret the instructions to mean remove oils and contaminants prior to the first coat only. Don't use the cleaner between coats.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[TomY]

You want to get @TomY 's advice. He uses Cetol all the time with amazing results.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Thanks but no, Will. Varnish, yes but my only hands on experience with Cetol is in construction (and very little at that). But I've seen it used with success both in the field and online by many so it's a good protective coating.

I can only guess but if the coating doesn't adhere, something (that's contaminating) has to be removed from the surface. Usually sanding to a fresh surface works.

 

[twalker H260]

You are using Marine Gloss?
From the manufacturer - it is to be applied over several coats of regular - non gloss - Marine Cetol as a finish top coat with - No sanding between gloss coats.

I used their recommended procedure successfully several years ago. If I remember correctly it also involves wiping the teak with acetone prior to the application of the first coat of non gloss cetol. - I used the marine light.

From their technical document:

“Preparation
Cetol® Marine Gloss is a gloss topcoat that can only be applied on top of a minimum of 2 coats of Cetol® Marine, Cetol® Marine Light and Cetol® Marine Natural Teak”

“Method
Apply 2-3 coats of Cetol® Marine Gloss. Always allow 24 hours drying time in between coats. Sanding between coats is not recommended as this will result in a reduction of dry film thickness. Recommended film thickness must be applied to ensure effective product performance. Apply all coats within 1-2 weeks”

 

[twalker H260]

Here is the link to the gloss technical document.

https://international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/TDS/Cetol_Marine_Gloss_eng_usa_A4_20140625.pdf?_ga=2.32779901.2129073814.1583848361-117938517.1583848361

 

[Kendallb183]

Cetol Instructions pdf.
Here's a link to the Cetol pdf instructions.
It looks like only 2 to 3 coats is recommended. You are describing above, the reverse procedure outlined in the instructions.

The instructions say, 1. Clean, 2. Sand, 3. Clean off sanding residue (just wipe with a clean rag), 4. Apply new coat.

From the manual:
"NEW EXTERIOR/INTERIOR WOOD: It is essential to remove any surface oils and contaminants prior to sanding and application of Cetol® Marine Natural Teak. Sand surfaces with 180-220 (grade) grit paper (always sand along the length of the grain). Remove all sanding residue prior to application of Cetol® Marine Natural Teak. EXTERIOR/INTERIOR - PREVIOUSLY COATED WOOD : Remove all coatings prior to application of Cetol® Marine Natural Teak. To remove old coating, either sand with 120- 180 (grade) grit paper or use Interlux Interstrip 299E chemical stripper which has been designed for marine use. Once previous coating has been removed, follow instructions for New Exterior/Interior wood."

You should be following the directions only for "new" wood here. I would also interpret the instructions to mean remove oils and contaminants prior to the first coat only. Don't use the cleaner between coats.

-Will (Dragonfly)

The can instructions states: "brush on smoothly with the grain... for a smoother finish wait 24 hours for cetol to dry then lightly scuff with a nylon pad, after scuffing clean surface thoroughly by wiping the surface with interlux special thinner 216 and let dry completely before applying the next coat of cetol"

Also

"If you sanded between coats apply a 3rd coat of cetol marine gloss to compensate for the reduced layer thickness"

So to address it, it does say sand, clean with special thinner 216, then reapply. It also says you can sand it, it's just not recommended due to layer thickness so to add an extra layer.

 

[sailnoproblem]

I used Cetol Natural Teak then gloss and followed the instructions on the can. I loved the finish and it lasted about 4 years before it started to peel in some spots. The thing is you have to use gloss over the other Cetol products. I assume if you did not that is the reason for the results. Why it worked the first time is beyond my minimal experience with the product.
On another note I have switched to spar varnish, I find it is easier to touch up spots advice from TomY . Not so much with Cetol.

 

[twalker H260]

The only reference I can find to the special thinner 216 is to the initial wipe down of the wood to remove surface oils and contaminants. (Same function as acetone). Don’t use between coats. If looking to smooth between coats maybe just a nylon scrubby? If doing second and third coats between 24 and 48 hours it doesn’t usually require sanding.

https://international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/Guidance/cetol-marine-guide.pdf?_ga=2.209794965.1497533547.1583850446-1896220558.1583850446

i have been assuming that this is also a “new” can of finish not one that’s been sitting for some time.

 

[capta]

I shouldn't think Cetol would be the best coating for a table. Before you get any further into this, you might want to reconsider and go with varnish as it is a much harder coating and if not in the sun should last much longer. It will also give you a much more elegant finish.

 

[BigEasy]

Depending on temp & humidity, it may take longer to dry between coats. Also, I would only use a fine 3M pad, not sandpaper, to lightly remove the gloss from dried surface. Remove any dust from the surface with an air hose or brush, and finally use a cloth slightly dampened with the thinner as a tack cloth. If you use a cloth saturated with thinner, it will soften the coating too much.