Have been taking some great learn to sail programs. Would like to know how difficult it is to grasp celestial navigation? I consider myself to be an average student and think that celestial might be one of the more important courses that should be mastered. Sail big water and the GPS is on the fritz...celestial is there for a backup...correct? Any video/books to prepare myself prior to class would be great help. Comments
- Status
celestial navigation
not an easy question. there are all kinds of levels of celestial navigation and all levels of talent of navigators. why not just use the money to buy two spare gps's and lots of extra batteries?
not an easy question. there are all kinds of levels of celestial navigation and all levels of talent of navigators. why not just use the money to buy two spare gps's and lots of extra batteries?
Celestial is
easy, they even teach it to sailors. Seriously, celestial is not difficult if you can work meticulously with pencil and paper. The basic concept is that at any moment the sun, moon or any given star is directly overhead some where on earth. The almanac can tell you where that place is and the sextant allows you to determine how far you are from that place and the sight reduction tables and your watch allow you to determine the direction. There are methods that use a calculator in place of the sight reduction tables. You can determine your latitude only with just a sextant and an almanac but you need a watch to find longitude.
easy, they even teach it to sailors. Seriously, celestial is not difficult if you can work meticulously with pencil and paper. The basic concept is that at any moment the sun, moon or any given star is directly overhead some where on earth. The almanac can tell you where that place is and the sextant allows you to determine how far you are from that place and the sight reduction tables and your watch allow you to determine the direction. There are methods that use a calculator in place of the sight reduction tables. You can determine your latitude only with just a sextant and an almanac but you need a watch to find longitude.
Cloudy situations
Here in Ohio we average 265 days a year non blue sky , yes its a grey end to end cloud cover , so theres a good chance we wouldnt be able to see any sky , so is there any reason to take the time to learn celestial nav ?
Here in Ohio we average 265 days a year non blue sky , yes its a grey end to end cloud cover , so theres a good chance we wouldnt be able to see any sky , so is there any reason to take the time to learn celestial nav ?
cloudy skies
existed in Cleveland, Oh for a total of forty five days from April until Novenber( NOAA weather data). So celestial navigation could be used in Ohio although there is no much need for it or for a GPS for that matter.
existed in Cleveland, Oh for a total of forty five days from April until Novenber( NOAA weather data). So celestial navigation could be used in Ohio although there is no much need for it or for a GPS for that matter.
Latitudes
It is easy to get a latitude. Most school kids learn how to make a paper sextant and get a sun angle. Knowing your latitude and having a compass you can sail east and west and have a good idea of where you will hit land, the only question is when. :^) Dave
It is easy to get a latitude. Most school kids learn how to make a paper sextant and get a sun angle. Knowing your latitude and having a compass you can sail east and west and have a good idea of where you will hit land, the only question is when. :^) Dave
Celestial Navigation
Ted, Your local Sail & Power Squadron (part of U.U. Power Squadron) has a series of excellent courses on navigation and seamanship, including 2 courses on Celestial Navigation which are each about 32 weeks long. You use Sight Reduction Tables (the Nautical Almanac)and the highest level of math is addition and subtraction. Power Squadro is about half power and half sailors. Also check out an excellent book on it called "Celestial Navigation in a Nutshell" by Hewitt Schereth (ISBN 1574090585. It's a 136 page paperback for about $14-15. I wish I had that book before I took the 2 Power Squadron courses - it really presents it clearly and simply, but not as thorough.
Ted, Your local Sail & Power Squadron (part of U.U. Power Squadron) has a series of excellent courses on navigation and seamanship, including 2 courses on Celestial Navigation which are each about 32 weeks long. You use Sight Reduction Tables (the Nautical Almanac)and the highest level of math is addition and subtraction. Power Squadro is about half power and half sailors. Also check out an excellent book on it called "Celestial Navigation in a Nutshell" by Hewitt Schereth (ISBN 1574090585. It's a 136 page paperback for about $14-15. I wish I had that book before I took the 2 Power Squadron courses - it really presents it clearly and simply, but not as thorough.
OK Ted, at the risk of being shot down,,
Celestial was invented because trade required it. No GPS was out there. Hell, the radio hadn't been invented. Now, the question is, does that mean that you need to spend months and $$$$ and effort learning a system that has even been dropped from the U.S. Navys' Annapolis curriculum? Your call. If you like that stuff and think it's fun, go for it. If you want to get on the water and invest your learning curve time in your other needed skills, that's your call too. Sure, celestial is a good back up. But when it's cloudy the people using celestial get on the radio for a position fix anyway. Someone is almost always nearby when approaching land. The other ship will just glance at their GPS.
Buy a couple of spares and don't waste your time. IMHO
Celestial was invented because trade required it. No GPS was out there. Hell, the radio hadn't been invented. Now, the question is, does that mean that you need to spend months and $$$$ and effort learning a system that has even been dropped from the U.S. Navys' Annapolis curriculum? Your call. If you like that stuff and think it's fun, go for it. If you want to get on the water and invest your learning curve time in your other needed skills, that's your call too. Sure, celestial is a good back up. But when it's cloudy the people using celestial get on the radio for a position fix anyway. Someone is almost always nearby when approaching land. The other ship will just glance at their GPS.
Buy a couple of spares and don't waste your time. IMHOAbacus
I agree with mortyd. People still learn abacus for interest but most school kids use Calculator and computer. Unfortunately most school kids can't recite the multiplication table. But is that essential? Not really. You can't solve complex problems with just pen and pencil (or abacus) any more. So, learn the skill for interest or alternatively get a couple of GPSs (pretty cheap now) and loads of batteries. I've been using rechargeable NiMH for a few years now. A good sextant, chronometer, log etc cost a bundle. And if you forgot to wind up the chronometer nothing else worth the darn. Just my 2 cents.
I agree with mortyd. People still learn abacus for interest but most school kids use Calculator and computer. Unfortunately most school kids can't recite the multiplication table. But is that essential? Not really. You can't solve complex problems with just pen and pencil (or abacus) any more. So, learn the skill for interest or alternatively get a couple of GPSs (pretty cheap now) and loads of batteries. I've been using rechargeable NiMH for a few years now. A good sextant, chronometer, log etc cost a bundle. And if you forgot to wind up the chronometer nothing else worth the darn. Just my 2 cents.
Celestial
...is a breeze to learn. The hard part is taking the 'shots' as accurately as possible on a moving vessel. The math is very straight forward. Take your shots and plugin the numbers. The amount of accuracy depends mostly on the sightings. No matter though, take the course, it's great to know.
...is a breeze to learn. The hard part is taking the 'shots' as accurately as possible on a moving vessel. The math is very straight forward. Take your shots and plugin the numbers. The amount of accuracy depends mostly on the sightings. No matter though, take the course, it's great to know.
isn't that what sailors do? ...
Celestial navigation is not dificult, but looking honestly at the intelligence level of todays boaters, you would have a better chance putting together a pig ballet on Broadway than being able to teach only half of the boaters how to navigate by the Sun and stars. What the gray-matter challenged are ignorant of is that cel-nav is for open water...since they themselves rarely leave a dock, or if they do, never the sight of land, they glibly proclaim to all that there is no need for such an arcane art. Besides, if they get slightly damp or discomfitted they simply radio the Coast Guard and abandon there boat for the insurance...isn't that what sailors do? ...damn I;lll have ot quit now before I actually start ranting and oiling the 12ga.
Celestial navigation is not dificult, but looking honestly at the intelligence level of todays boaters, you would have a better chance putting together a pig ballet on Broadway than being able to teach only half of the boaters how to navigate by the Sun and stars. What the gray-matter challenged are ignorant of is that cel-nav is for open water...since they themselves rarely leave a dock, or if they do, never the sight of land, they glibly proclaim to all that there is no need for such an arcane art. Besides, if they get slightly damp or discomfitted they simply radio the Coast Guard and abandon there boat for the insurance...isn't that what sailors do? ...damn I;lll have ot quit now before I actually start ranting and oiling the 12ga.
Those that wish
to learn will and the others will just follow. I have known boaters that don't see the need for a reliable compass. The only concern that I have is that they will be the cause of someone getting hurt. Last summer I was hailed by a couple on a bass boat wondering where a particular state park launching ramp was located. This was in the upper part of the Chesapeake Bay where four rivers converge. I asked if they had a chart, NO. Did they have a gps? No. Did they happen to know what the name of the river was? No. Well I was able finally to determine where they probably needed to be and they left at about fifty MPH.
to learn will and the others will just follow. I have known boaters that don't see the need for a reliable compass. The only concern that I have is that they will be the cause of someone getting hurt. Last summer I was hailed by a couple on a bass boat wondering where a particular state park launching ramp was located. This was in the upper part of the Chesapeake Bay where four rivers converge. I asked if they had a chart, NO. Did they have a gps? No. Did they happen to know what the name of the river was? No. Well I was able finally to determine where they probably needed to be and they left at about fifty MPH.
not so easy
When you get out there with no light pollution, there are so many stars, I have a hard time just to find the north star and can't find the big dipper or the small dipper. On land I can find all three, usually with no problem. So it's not learning about them, but actually being able to find them when it really counts. Now I didn't take a class on it so maybe that's the problem, but so far I think it has to do with my lack of ability to filter out needless information and not my intelligence.
When you get out there with no light pollution, there are so many stars, I have a hard time just to find the north star and can't find the big dipper or the small dipper. On land I can find all three, usually with no problem. So it's not learning about them, but actually being able to find them when it really counts. Now I didn't take a class on it so maybe that's the problem, but so far I think it has to do with my lack of ability to filter out needless information and not my intelligence.
aren't charts
required on all boats? just like PFDs and Anchors. NO.. And you are not required to keep a plot. Even if you have a chart and a compass when the fog rolls in, if you don't KNOW where you are then you won't know which way to go to get back home. A gps won't help if you don't have a chart of some type. My favorite anchorage is almost exactly SE of my marinia. but it happens to be six miles up a river with several twists and turns in it and a narrow channel across the flats. There are any number of splendid places where you can run aground should you decide to rely on only one navigational aid. If your cruising area has only one shore then perhaps you can afford to be complacent with your chart plotting but should you decide to cruise the Chesapeake Bay you will be well advised to follow the rule of good coast piloting. Some people are sloppy in their automobile driving habits and even more so when they are boating.
required on all boats? just like PFDs and Anchors. NO.. And you are not required to keep a plot. Even if you have a chart and a compass when the fog rolls in, if you don't KNOW where you are then you won't know which way to go to get back home. A gps won't help if you don't have a chart of some type. My favorite anchorage is almost exactly SE of my marinia. but it happens to be six miles up a river with several twists and turns in it and a narrow channel across the flats. There are any number of splendid places where you can run aground should you decide to rely on only one navigational aid. If your cruising area has only one shore then perhaps you can afford to be complacent with your chart plotting but should you decide to cruise the Chesapeake Bay you will be well advised to follow the rule of good coast piloting. Some people are sloppy in their automobile driving habits and even more so when they are boating.
"Commonsense Celestial Navigation"
This early book was what we used in the 1980's to learn the basics. Tried it out in the Keys and Bahamas vs. a known location and the calculations were within 2-miles. We figured it could get you close enough to land to switch over to coastal navigation (but wouldn't return you to that great lobster hole - only LORAN does that well, within a boat-length.)
This early book was what we used in the 1980's to learn the basics. Tried it out in the Keys and Bahamas vs. a known location and the calculations were within 2-miles. We figured it could get you close enough to land to switch over to coastal navigation (but wouldn't return you to that great lobster hole - only LORAN does that well, within a boat-length.)
Hmmm
Not sure about the having 3 GPS's solution, one big coronal mass ejection, and that whole system goes south. celestial is worth learning in my opinion, besides astronomy to me goes hand in hand with navigation. "just my opinion, I could be wrong" as Dennis Miller says, eh....
Not sure about the having 3 GPS's solution, one big coronal mass ejection, and that whole system goes south. celestial is worth learning in my opinion, besides astronomy to me goes hand in hand with navigation. "just my opinion, I could be wrong" as Dennis Miller says, eh....
- Status