There's been a great deal of disucssion and controversy on this site, as well as a great deal of Hunter-bashing, regarding the CE certification (or non-certification) of Hunter sailboats. I decided to do some research to clarify the situation. The resources I used were the International Marine Certification Institute (IMCI) who, under the Directive 94/25/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council, awards the CE Certification, the USCG, the various component manufactures, and Hunter themselves. There are at least three aspects to CE certification. First of all, the boat manufacturer itself must be certified, each required component of the "directive" must be certified, and finally the particular boat must be certified. Hunter is a CE-certified Manufacturer (see www.imci.org). Much confusion has resulted from the publication, on a generic page in each owners manual, of the certification details of BOTH the CE, to which European-delivered boats must conform, and of the NMMA certification to which the American-delivered boats conform. In addition, the boats delivered in the European market contain a placard (Builder' Information Plate) not found on non-European boats, but pictured in the manual. Probably these pages should be changed or clarified. Is your American delivered boat individually CE-certified? Usually, No. The particular model, as deivered in Europe is. What's the difference in the European-delivered and the American-delivered boats? There are certain statutary differences required by the USCG or by the IMCI. To be CE-certified, the boat must have a 10 character hull number beginning with "CE-". This is not allowed by the USGC (yet), but rather the American boats must have a hull number beginning with the manufacture's code, in this case "HUN". The IMCI required a 220 volt GFI (ground-fault interupter) to be installed on the 220 volt AC electrical system. Doesn't work here. The VHF radios sold here are not permitted to be used on European boats due to some frequency differences. Again disqualifying. The CE-certified propane tanks sold in Europe have different fittings from the American DOT-approved tanks used here, so Hunter ships boats to Europe without the tanks but with different adapters. These are minor differences, not relating to seaworthiness or to quality. Some folks insist that the American-delivered boats use different, "cheaper" hardware (hatches have often been mentioned). Not the case. The hatches installed on our boats are CE-Certified, as is all the other equipment that have a requirement to be so under the Directive, except in a few regulatory or practical cases such as those mentioned above. Where there are differences, they do not in any way change the seaworthiness of the boats or the characteristics of the boats in any significant way. Yes, you can get a CE-certified boat here, but it would not work on our electric current without conversion, would have a hull number that can not be registered in the U.S. and you could not get your propane tanks filled or use your radio, among other things. If you have your boat delivered here for overseas use, you could request that it be CE certified and Hunter will build it that way for you. Should you sail your American non-CE certified boat in the Southern Ocean, the Tasman sea, or far off shore, where the seas may greatly exceed the 4 meters stated in the Category A certification? That is for you to decide, but it has nothing to do in any way with the CE certification issue. And as always, if you call Hunter, they will be glad to discuss this and any other issue with you, as they have with me. But don't look for them to respond to posting here, as they consider this site to be our (Hunter owners) private domain!
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Thanks George!
Thanks for the research and summary. It sounds like it's probably best to NOT have a CE certified boat if you're going to be boating in the US since some of the required components like the shoreside electical system wouldn't work. I do think that Hunter may have taken advantage of people's misperception of what the CE rating really means by trying to sell the boats as being "officially certified" to go anywhere. It's good to have all the facts...
Thanks for the research and summary. It sounds like it's probably best to NOT have a CE certified boat if you're going to be boating in the US since some of the required components like the shoreside electical system wouldn't work. I do think that Hunter may have taken advantage of people's misperception of what the CE rating really means by trying to sell the boats as being "officially certified" to go anywhere. It's good to have all the facts...
Nice Explanation
You did a great job. I would suggest that Hunter be more specific in their brochure about certification. A one liner would probably suffice.
You did a great job. I would suggest that Hunter be more specific in their brochure about certification. A one liner would probably suffice.
Think about it this way, Miles...
In aircraft, the "type" (model) is certified as meeting certain standards. Same here, essentially, if not exactly the same. Boats of the same model (but differing only in that they have the European gizmos) are certified to "go anywhere", and our boats, even without the placard, are essentially clones. Again, I think that you have to consider the boat, crew experience, and weather factors that limit where and when and for whom "anywhere" might be.
In aircraft, the "type" (model) is certified as meeting certain standards. Same here, essentially, if not exactly the same. Boats of the same model (but differing only in that they have the European gizmos) are certified to "go anywhere", and our boats, even without the placard, are essentially clones. Again, I think that you have to consider the boat, crew experience, and weather factors that limit where and when and for whom "anywhere" might be.
Great overview, George!
Thanks for reviewing this complex issue so lucidly. My only footnote to your review concerns Hunter's putative policy not to take a more active role in following discussions on the HOW site, let alone take part in them. Maybe you're right about that. That does not mean, however, that it is a smart policy. A year or 2 ago one of the senior Hunter staff members was a regular guest here and contributed a great deal of information. Now we threaten to come to a situation that it is far easier to get technical input from the manufacturer of a head, engine or autopilot aboard a Hunter than from the maker of the boat itself. In my opinion this head-in-the-sand policy has already cost Hunter several potential clients and may cost Hunter owners like you and me resale value. Flying Dutchman
Thanks for reviewing this complex issue so lucidly. My only footnote to your review concerns Hunter's putative policy not to take a more active role in following discussions on the HOW site, let alone take part in them. Maybe you're right about that. That does not mean, however, that it is a smart policy. A year or 2 ago one of the senior Hunter staff members was a regular guest here and contributed a great deal of information. Now we threaten to come to a situation that it is far easier to get technical input from the manufacturer of a head, engine or autopilot aboard a Hunter than from the maker of the boat itself. In my opinion this head-in-the-sand policy has already cost Hunter several potential clients and may cost Hunter owners like you and me resale value. Flying Dutchman
Good review George, almost correct
I really enjoy visitng this site. It is quite informative. I have followed a few of the more active threads lately and this one really caught my attention. Having owned quite a few boats in the past, including Hunters, I must say that they are good boats however, I believe the explanation you received was somewhat lacking. I currently own a popular cruising boat manufactured in the U.S.. Each and every one of their boats are CE Certified, AND PLACARDED, REGARDLESS of their delivery destination, U.S. or otherwise. CE is not just for European consideration. True it is required for sale in Europe however, there is no way yo tell, without extensive study and comparison,just what the comparative "spec" for the NMMA spec is, IF ANT AT ALL. I would suggest that since there seems to be a difference in the price of the boat for a CE rated craft, there is a difference that isn't being communicated. The 120 volt US / 240 volt Euro standard is a "Red Herring" that seems to have been followed by the Hunter owners. Keep up the the very informative dialogue as I believe it is valuable to all.
I really enjoy visitng this site. It is quite informative. I have followed a few of the more active threads lately and this one really caught my attention. Having owned quite a few boats in the past, including Hunters, I must say that they are good boats however, I believe the explanation you received was somewhat lacking. I currently own a popular cruising boat manufactured in the U.S.. Each and every one of their boats are CE Certified, AND PLACARDED, REGARDLESS of their delivery destination, U.S. or otherwise. CE is not just for European consideration. True it is required for sale in Europe however, there is no way yo tell, without extensive study and comparison,just what the comparative "spec" for the NMMA spec is, IF ANT AT ALL. I would suggest that since there seems to be a difference in the price of the boat for a CE rated craft, there is a difference that isn't being communicated. The 120 volt US / 240 volt Euro standard is a "Red Herring" that seems to have been followed by the Hunter owners. Keep up the the very informative dialogue as I believe it is valuable to all.
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