CDI Flexible Furler

[xsubsquid]

After our very successful mast raising event today we (naturally) had to encounter new and inventive problems with our CDI Flexible Furler.

We raised the jib sail without a problem, but then I went to do the same thing I did last year, connecting the rabbit (may not be the technical term, but the triangular piece of plastic on the bow side of the furler track used to haul the jib up) to one of the (for lack of a better term) shackles on the furler drum cover, and then the foot of the jib to the "shackle" as well:

Well, imagine my surprise when I found the "bolt" or "pin" that those "shackles" are on had actually pulled through the Bakelite-like cover. One of the "shackles" was missing and the whole thing was a mess.

So we did what any good sailors anywhere would do. We improvised:

Unfortunately, the improvisation isn't working, and we may also have a related, or separate (hard to tell), issue with the drum of the furler in that trying to pull the halyard out to roll up the jib is resulting in some amazing amount of force to be needed to accomplish anything at all.

This is a jib furler which worked just fine last year.

We're at a bit of a loss what to do here. I don't know if there is a quick fix we can use local off-the-shelf parts for, or if I'm going to have to order something expensive and pay to get it shipped here fast in order to start our sailing season this weekend.

Any help you folks can provide would be gratefully accepted.

 

[wamwam1]

Its hard for me to see the picture detail but it sounds like your set up is fouling on the forestay.
I would stop pulling on the furling line and investigate for a possible foul.

 

[dave_ren]

It's hard to tell, but it looks like your shackle is attached to the wrong part of the furler drum assembly. It looks like you are attaching it to the pin that supports the luff extrusion inside the drum. The top of the drum flange/cover should have a horizontal hole running through it. This is where you should lash the jib tack. Take a look at page 4 of the attached CDI manual. Good luck.

 

[xsubsquid]

I apologize for the poor quality pictures. I should have checked their quality before leaving the dock. I just assumed.... well, you know how well that works.

You are correct. When we received the boat there were two shackles (part D on page 4) either side of the luff support pin, part C. When we started the season this year, only one of those shackles was in place, and I think this has to do with something I did late in the season last year as we were still getting used to the boat. I was reminded of this fact when I came home after yesterday's adventure and, purely by happenstance, noticed exactly the same type of shackle sitting on my desk in a little out-of-the-way corner where it had been shoved over the winter.

Oops.

Still, the problem with the luff pin is a concern. I am wondering if that pin could be substituted with a stainless steel nut and bolt of similar diameter, with a thick washer to compensate for the enlarged hole on the starboard side. Making that change would save me from having to buy a new assembly cover.


Now, as I understand it, you are telling me the shackles are actually supposed to be on either side of the horizontal hole, which seems well displayed at the top of page 8 of the manual, or the bottom of page 9 (thanks for that, by the way).

Now, currently, there is a line passing through this hole - the tail end of the jib halyard I suspect. What is not overly clear to me is whether the shackles actually go on the line, either side of the hole. If that's the case, then I should easily be able to correct that faux pas.

On the other hand, if there is supposed to be some sort of metal pin through there, then it doesn't exist and I'll have to order it, or find some way of rigging a replacement.

 

[MrSkeet]

On the CDI drum, there should be two shackles, one facing forward (that's to tie off the jib halyard) and another facing aft (that's to connect the jib's tack - recall each triangular sail has three points, head, tack and clew: here, the top end of the halyard attaches to the head, the aft shackle on the CDI drum attaches to the tack and the jib sheets attach to the clew). Now as for the lateral pin which in your case has pulled thru the top section of the CDI drum, I think a correctly sized bolt and nut should suffice. Your second photo shows your jib tack attached to this lateral pin - not at all what it's for; remove the tack and attach it to aft shackle.
Best wishes,
Wooster
oh yes, the CDI furling line should pass thru the hole on top of the drum and be fixed via a large stopper knot; in this way, the front end of the line, which then wraps around the drum goes out the large side opening and aft to the cockpit, is secured.

 

[Mattw79]

Maybe this will help. Your furler looks a little different than mine though.

 

[xsubsquid]

Due to our work schedules, we're not going to be able to work on this before Friday, but right now it appears, from the pictures provides, and from the diagrams in the manual, that the upper half of the furling drum assembly on ours is at least 90 degrees off from where it should be.

Couple this with the issue with the luff pin and shackles and this poor thing is a little messed up.

I'm pretty sure with the help all of you have provided that we can fix it and be sailing by late Friday afternoon.

Thank you all!

 

[Rightbrainer]

I'd contact CDI at http://www.sailcdi.com/ and see what they'll do. If I remember correctly, they guy's name is Tom.

 

[xsubsquid]

Tom Livingston, yes. He was a great help with regard to the shackle arrangement, but he wasn't much help when it came to a follow-on problem we are experiencing in which the furler will deploy (albeit with somewhat greater effort than it did last year) but simply absolutely refuses to "furl" when the furler halyard is pulled. So, this, now is the latest bane of our existence.

As it turns out, our boat is old enough to have the Mini ST Furler, which is the second oldest furler made by CDI:

It's an incredibly basic device, but it came to us in less than pristine condition and so we were a little unsure how it was supposed to be set up on the upper furler housing. Tom helped with that.

In the picture provided, you'll note the two shackles on the top of the upper housing, and how this arrangement differs substantially from the more modern FF series of furlers. The furler came to us missing one of the two shackles. We purchased it and solved that problem.

You'll also note the deformation around the halyard line opening. That also pre-existed our ownership. For all I know it was this sort of deformation that led to more modern versions having a much larger opening in this area.

The internals of this device consist of the metal cable that runs from the near-top of the mast, down to a turnbuckle, and thence to the innards on the inside of the furler drum. This week, we are going to lift up the top housing of the furler and take a look at the guts to see what the deal might be. Maybe we threw a cotter pin on the turnbuckle or something. I dunno. Damned annoying though for a mechanical type like me not to be able to figure out what the issue is.

 

[HERSH]

Speaking of furlers . Just curious what other people do when furling/unfurling their genoas.
Do you leave the halyard very tight, or loosen it up?

I have a Furlex system.

Hershey

 

[MrSkeet]

xsubsquid,
Too bad about your jib furling difficulties. I think any attempt to discuss these issues requires some common language/terms. For example, looking at the image posted by Mattw79, the green line leaving the drum's large horizontal opening is the furling line; the bright metal ring in the photo is the jib's tack which is secured to the rearward shackle atop the drum; lastly, the white line (thickened by several loops) is the halyard, secured to the drum's front shackle.
In your post you say something about a "metal cable that runs from the near-top of the mast, down to a turnbuckle..." , well that sounds a lot like the jib stay. I'm not able to see your last photo, it didn't "load " in my pc, just got a little box containing an "x" so I can't see the differences between your furler and my rather generic CDI FF unit.
With all due respect to your self-description as a "mechanical type", I think you would greatly benefit by help from some one familiar with CDI furling units: where are you at ? Perhaps one of us is in your area and can assist you.
Wooster
And Hershey, in response to your question, on my ordinary CDI FF unit, I leave the halyard alone all season; once the jib is up, I'm left with sheets and furling line.

 

[Charlie H]

And Hershey, in response to your question, on my ordinary CDI FF unit, I leave the halyard alone all season; once the jib is up, I'm left with sheets and furling line.

I have that unit too, and I do the same. Depending on the conditions, I may think about loosening or tightening the halyard to make the sail flatter or baggier, but, since it cannot be done conveniently, I haven't bothered.

Charlie

 

[dave_ren]

And Hershey, in response to your question, on my ordinary CDI FF unit, I leave the halyard alone all season; once the jib is up, I'm left with sheets and furling line.

I have that unit too, and I do the same. Depending on the conditions, I may think about loosening or tightening the halyard to make the sail flatter or baggier, but, since it cannot be done conveniently, I haven't bothered.

Charlie

Charlie, Halyard adjustments are really only necessary on a hanked-on headsail where low tension creates bagginess between the hanks. Luff tape reduces the ability to stretch the luff to almost zero. That's why CDI didn't bother making their PITA internal halyard system convenient for on-the-fly adjustment. However, you can and should adjust the shape of your headsail with the adjustable backstay. The adjustable backstay bends the mast, tensioning the forestay which adds to or reduces fullness of the headsail. Loose backstay = low forestay tension which allows the forestay to drop to leeward and creates a fuller, baggy shape (you see a curve in the luff). Tight backstay = tight forestay (less curve in the luff) which, along with proper sheeting, flattens the sail without touching the halyard.

 

[Charlie H]

And Hershey, in response to your question, on my ordinary CDI FF unit, I leave the halyard alone all season; once the jib is up, I'm left with sheets and furling line.

I have that unit too, and I do the same. Depending on the conditions, I may think about loosening or tightening the halyard to make the sail flatter or baggier, but, since it cannot be done conveniently, I haven't bothered.

Charlie

Charlie, Halyard adjustments are really only necessary on a hanked-on headsail where low tension creates bagginess between the hanks. Luff tape reduces the ability to stretch the luff to almost zero. That's why CDI didn't bother making their PITA internal halyard system convenient for on-the-fly adjustment. However, you can and should adjust the shape of your headsail with the adjustable backstay. The adjustable backstay bends the mast, tensioning the forestay which adds to or reduces fullness of the headsail. Loose backstay = low forestay tension which allows the forestay to drop to leeward and creates a fuller, baggy shape (you see a curve in the luff). Tight backstay = tight forestay (less curve in the luff) which, along with proper sheeting, flattens the sail without touching the halyard.

Thanks for these tips, much appreciated. I otherwise associated back-stay adjustments with the main sail only. Good to know it significantly influences both sails!

Charlie

 

[HERSH]

I just realized there was a "page 2" . Thanks for pointing out the use of the back-stay adjuster for head-sail trim on roller fuller boats. Let me see -- I did purchase this Capri 22 because it had the "racing package".

Hershey

 

[Rightbrainer]

xsubsquid- check your p.m.'s

 

[Rightbrainer]

xsubsquid-

It looks like my private message is hung up in my outbox for some reason. Contact me at mlasher 'at' hotmail.com. I have some info for you.

Marty