Well, I'm stil in the learning process (there is so much to learn). With the help from you all (thanks a lot!) I'm coming to the conclusion that I, most likely, will be looking at 30-32' used about (10-15 years old) boat as my first one. I also understood that it will be most likely Catalina or Hunter. But because of not having much knowlage on the subgect I do not know what I'm gaining or loosing (if any significant) between those two. I read somewhere that Catalina is more stable, but the same time interior layout of Hunter looks more reasonable to me in general not depending on the boat size. Well, layout is something I consider secondary. Anyhow, if I could get any help in making this decision I'd greatly appriciate it. Thanks again, Severin.
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Catalina over Hunter
Hi Severin: I concur that interior layout is secondary to boat stability/handling. This will mean much more to you when you are sailing in 20 knot winds with waves of 3 feet. When I was shopping around, I heard pretty good reports about Catalinas from even non-Catalina owners. With regard to the Hunter, comments were a little mixed. If you have the money, also consider an Erickson, or Pacific Seacraft boat. Good Luck, Melody
Hi Severin: I concur that interior layout is secondary to boat stability/handling. This will mean much more to you when you are sailing in 20 knot winds with waves of 3 feet. When I was shopping around, I heard pretty good reports about Catalinas from even non-Catalina owners. With regard to the Hunter, comments were a little mixed. If you have the money, also consider an Erickson, or Pacific Seacraft boat. Good Luck, Melody
Catalina vs. Hunter
I have owned both, started with a Catalina 25 then a Hunter 260. After the Huner it was back to Catalina and a 310. Boats are like cars and people, some you like more than others. It is very much a personal preference which should be decided by the preeominate sailing conditions you will encounter. The Hunter was way to tender for my liking, but it offers a lot of space for the dollar. We are very happy to be back in a Catalina.
I have owned both, started with a Catalina 25 then a Hunter 260. After the Huner it was back to Catalina and a 310. Boats are like cars and people, some you like more than others. It is very much a personal preference which should be decided by the preeominate sailing conditions you will encounter. The Hunter was way to tender for my liking, but it offers a lot of space for the dollar. We are very happy to be back in a Catalina.
Catalina Over Hunter - Easy Choice
Severin, When I got out of the trailerables I wanted a heavy, stable, and solid boat. Look at the numbers and you will see Catalinas are almost allways heavier than Hunters or Benniteaus which means you will punch through waves with a much better feel than getting punched around by them. Also look at the Balast/Displacement Ratio and you will again see that Catalina puts that weight where it's needed down in the keel to give you a stiff and forgiving boat when you may have too much sail up and the weather gets bad. Some may say that Catalinas are old fashioned and all that weight is not needed, but are lighter than the serious, expensive, blue water criusers. Also since they are heavy you may think they are a lot slower than the H or B's - Not true. The size and age you mentioned puts you in the market for a c30 which is a boat you can't go wrong with. They are everywhere for ease of purchase and mechanical support and Catalina owners are a support group themselves. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Severin, When I got out of the trailerables I wanted a heavy, stable, and solid boat. Look at the numbers and you will see Catalinas are almost allways heavier than Hunters or Benniteaus which means you will punch through waves with a much better feel than getting punched around by them. Also look at the Balast/Displacement Ratio and you will again see that Catalina puts that weight where it's needed down in the keel to give you a stiff and forgiving boat when you may have too much sail up and the weather gets bad. Some may say that Catalinas are old fashioned and all that weight is not needed, but are lighter than the serious, expensive, blue water criusers. Also since they are heavy you may think they are a lot slower than the H or B's - Not true. The size and age you mentioned puts you in the market for a c30 which is a boat you can't go wrong with. They are everywhere for ease of purchase and mechanical support and Catalina owners are a support group themselves. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Catalina over Hunter
Go with the Catalina. It's put together more solidly, and will hold up better in the long run.
Go with the Catalina. It's put together more solidly, and will hold up better in the long run.
Catalina
I'd go with Catalina. Particularly in the age range you're talking about, the Catalinas have proven to have much more staying power than Hunters of a similar vintage. You can't beat a Catalina 30 for all around value and performance. I think that Hunter is doing a better job than they once did with it's newer boats, but I still prefer the Catalinas. Look at a lot of boats and talk to a lot of owners (walk the docks). I think you'll find that you'll develop a preference after a while. I'm not sure where you're located, but here in CA, Cals, Islanders and Newports are also popular in the size range and vintage you're considering.
I'd go with Catalina. Particularly in the age range you're talking about, the Catalinas have proven to have much more staying power than Hunters of a similar vintage. You can't beat a Catalina 30 for all around value and performance. I think that Hunter is doing a better job than they once did with it's newer boats, but I still prefer the Catalinas. Look at a lot of boats and talk to a lot of owners (walk the docks). I think you'll find that you'll develop a preference after a while. I'm not sure where you're located, but here in CA, Cals, Islanders and Newports are also popular in the size range and vintage you're considering.
Don't even think about a Hunter!
A Hunter might be better than a MacGregor, but not much. Don't even think about paying for a Hunter. They have a terrible reputation. Check out a Pearson if you can find one and then maybe a Catalina or an O'Day (with caution), but avoid Hunter.
A Hunter might be better than a MacGregor, but not much. Don't even think about paying for a Hunter. They have a terrible reputation. Check out a Pearson if you can find one and then maybe a Catalina or an O'Day (with caution), but avoid Hunter.
Hey Mike of Huntington
Mike, Who ya got for 5th period this year man? Fords rule dude! I can't believe those Chevy dorks Think they got any thing but junk, man!..... Time to move on Mike. High school is over. Yes, the real world is complex but hiding in a simplistic fantasy is a lose-lose game. Greg
Mike, Who ya got for 5th period this year man? Fords rule dude! I can't believe those Chevy dorks Think they got any thing but junk, man!..... Time to move on Mike. High school is over. Yes, the real world is complex but hiding in a simplistic fantasy is a lose-lose game. Greg
Hunter's rep here is good
I bought a Hunter (an '88 35) after spending hours reading everything I could about boats. I was well aware of the "reputation" Mike talks about, and bought one anyway. Most of the negativism about Hunters, IMHO, comes from the fact that they are price-competitive production boats, and therefore looked down upon by the high cost crowd (who have to justify why they spent twice as much for a smaller, cramped, varnish intensive boat). While that would place Cats and Benes (and others) in the same category (which do get some of the same criticisms), Hunters are specially singled out because their non-traditional styling further irritates "traditionalists." Yet when I looked for hard facts behind the negative reputation, I found little in the way to support it. Yeah, you can ocassionally find problems with Hunters; so you do with other manufacturers. And given that Hunder has produced some 30,000 boats, the reports of major problems are few and far between. Hunter has survived and even grown during 25 years economic upheavals that drove most other manufacturers under. They have a loyal following of multi-boat owners as is evidenced on the web. A company making crap doesn't generate the kind of success Hunter has. Pearson made some good boats, but where is the manufacturer now? Greg is right. If I were you, I'd continue doing research to find the boat that best meets your needs, when you find her have her surveyed, and I wouldn't worry too much about whether its a Cat Bene or Hunter or what else.
I bought a Hunter (an '88 35) after spending hours reading everything I could about boats. I was well aware of the "reputation" Mike talks about, and bought one anyway. Most of the negativism about Hunters, IMHO, comes from the fact that they are price-competitive production boats, and therefore looked down upon by the high cost crowd (who have to justify why they spent twice as much for a smaller, cramped, varnish intensive boat). While that would place Cats and Benes (and others) in the same category (which do get some of the same criticisms), Hunters are specially singled out because their non-traditional styling further irritates "traditionalists." Yet when I looked for hard facts behind the negative reputation, I found little in the way to support it. Yeah, you can ocassionally find problems with Hunters; so you do with other manufacturers. And given that Hunder has produced some 30,000 boats, the reports of major problems are few and far between. Hunter has survived and even grown during 25 years economic upheavals that drove most other manufacturers under. They have a loyal following of multi-boat owners as is evidenced on the web. A company making crap doesn't generate the kind of success Hunter has. Pearson made some good boats, but where is the manufacturer now? Greg is right. If I were you, I'd continue doing research to find the boat that best meets your needs, when you find her have her surveyed, and I wouldn't worry too much about whether its a Cat Bene or Hunter or what else.
This is what I saw with Hunters at the Boat Shows
I am not here to specifically discuss the seaworthy-ness of Hunters (or any other sailboats). The fact is that most production boats today could probably handle hour after hour of very heavy winds and seas without any major structural damage (alot has to do with the helmsman's handling of situations). The real problem in those seas are not the layup schedule of the hull but rather how well the passengers can handle the rough and tumble ride, hour after hour. That is why they classify some boats as blue water cruisers, they are designed with long narrow hulls with a hefty ballast displacement ratio to keep the boat steady in heavy breaking seas...read "more comfortable ride" Which leads us to the sailing 99% of us do. Coastal Cruising. All of the aforementioned boats do a very good job in Coastal crusing situations. The difference is in either what "style" and/or "comfort" is afforded. I would argue that some manufacturers are on the high end in providing "Rich Style" (Sabres, Tartens, etc). They have very rich interiors that just exude craftsmenship. Also, you will pay for that fine joinery and all teak finishings. Then you have boats that load as much comfort into as much space as possble to get the most bang for the buck (Hunters, Catalina, etc.). They don't have as much teak, but just look at all those "neat" features they added to make your weekend sailing and anchoring fun....and all for less money. You will notice alot more "clorox bottle" look to these boats, but it costs money to put all that teak on a boat. Will these boats sail less well ?...No, not necessarily. Will they handle most Coastal cruising conditions? ....Absolutely ! Is the "detail and workmanship" as fine as the Sabres, et. al. No ! Which leads me back to my experiences at the boats shows. I have gone to the Atlantic City Sailboat show every year since it started (1983?). And I have noticed every year that when I go on the Hunter boats I find something that is disconcerting. For instance, all the interior joinery is so sloppy !! And these are the boats they bring to the show !!!. I can't help but wonder if they have all these misfittings and sloppy corners and things that don't fit well on the exposed areas on show boats, then what missfittings do they have on important systems that I can't see !?!.....This has been consistent year after year. I have been on the Catalinas also and while they don't have the all teak bellowdecks of some of the more expensive yacths at least the interior work is not sloppy. Also I have yet to hear or meet someone who had anything bad to say about Catalina, but I have heard some negative comments from people about Hunters (yes, Owners included).
I am not here to specifically discuss the seaworthy-ness of Hunters (or any other sailboats). The fact is that most production boats today could probably handle hour after hour of very heavy winds and seas without any major structural damage (alot has to do with the helmsman's handling of situations). The real problem in those seas are not the layup schedule of the hull but rather how well the passengers can handle the rough and tumble ride, hour after hour. That is why they classify some boats as blue water cruisers, they are designed with long narrow hulls with a hefty ballast displacement ratio to keep the boat steady in heavy breaking seas...read "more comfortable ride" Which leads us to the sailing 99% of us do. Coastal Cruising. All of the aforementioned boats do a very good job in Coastal crusing situations. The difference is in either what "style" and/or "comfort" is afforded. I would argue that some manufacturers are on the high end in providing "Rich Style" (Sabres, Tartens, etc). They have very rich interiors that just exude craftsmenship. Also, you will pay for that fine joinery and all teak finishings. Then you have boats that load as much comfort into as much space as possble to get the most bang for the buck (Hunters, Catalina, etc.). They don't have as much teak, but just look at all those "neat" features they added to make your weekend sailing and anchoring fun....and all for less money. You will notice alot more "clorox bottle" look to these boats, but it costs money to put all that teak on a boat. Will these boats sail less well ?...No, not necessarily. Will they handle most Coastal cruising conditions? ....Absolutely ! Is the "detail and workmanship" as fine as the Sabres, et. al. No ! Which leads me back to my experiences at the boats shows. I have gone to the Atlantic City Sailboat show every year since it started (1983?). And I have noticed every year that when I go on the Hunter boats I find something that is disconcerting. For instance, all the interior joinery is so sloppy !! And these are the boats they bring to the show !!!. I can't help but wonder if they have all these misfittings and sloppy corners and things that don't fit well on the exposed areas on show boats, then what missfittings do they have on important systems that I can't see !?!.....This has been consistent year after year. I have been on the Catalinas also and while they don't have the all teak bellowdecks of some of the more expensive yacths at least the interior work is not sloppy. Also I have yet to hear or meet someone who had anything bad to say about Catalina, but I have heard some negative comments from people about Hunters (yes, Owners included).
SPY vs. SPY
Ahh! the old Hunter vs. Catalina debate rears its head again. The bias is most often based upon what boat the respondent owns. I have observed that the most honest responses come from those who have owned both brands and that is, both boats have their pluses and minuses. When you get down to it, most owners are happy with their selection until they want a different size boat. For example, how often do you read of an owner trading out one 28 for another 28 due to disatisfaction? Buy the boat you like and can afford and you will develop brand loyalty immediatly until your next purchase. Let us be thankful that companies such as Catalina and Hunter have survivied to give the buyer a choice with reasonable quality, price and support. Imagine if Tartan and Hinckley were the only manufactures. I think I would still be sailing my wooden Sunfish. Find a boat you like, get a good survey and go sailing. Good luck.
Ahh! the old Hunter vs. Catalina debate rears its head again. The bias is most often based upon what boat the respondent owns. I have observed that the most honest responses come from those who have owned both brands and that is, both boats have their pluses and minuses. When you get down to it, most owners are happy with their selection until they want a different size boat. For example, how often do you read of an owner trading out one 28 for another 28 due to disatisfaction? Buy the boat you like and can afford and you will develop brand loyalty immediatly until your next purchase. Let us be thankful that companies such as Catalina and Hunter have survivied to give the buyer a choice with reasonable quality, price and support. Imagine if Tartan and Hinckley were the only manufactures. I think I would still be sailing my wooden Sunfish. Find a boat you like, get a good survey and go sailing. Good luck.
True....True
I do not own either boat (at this time). I own a 1980 Watkins 27 that I've sailed for 8 years. These were just my observations and IMHO
I do not own either boat (at this time). I own a 1980 Watkins 27 that I've sailed for 8 years. These were just my observations and IMHO
Condition Is Very Important
On a used boat the overall condition is very important. I've seen a lot of used boats, minimally equipped and with defered maintenance, having sell prices very close to those that have numerous quality upgrades and which have been well taken care of. Buyers often figure just the cost of an extra without the commissioning cost of the item and that can be very significant. Bringing a boat back from lack of maintenance can be time consuming and costly. With regard to the comment about "being tender": There are two sides to this. Like Bryan C, I too have a 35 footer and it has a fairly tall rig, hence, it can lean in a wind. The good side to this is in light wind I can keep sailing where as many other sailors take their sails down and motor. The down side is when the wind pipes up I will have to reef earlier than the boat with a smaller sail area to displacement ratio. Since reefing is fairly easy this is not a problem for me. I've learned how to take care of my sails and reefing before the rail is in the water is one of the tools.
On a used boat the overall condition is very important. I've seen a lot of used boats, minimally equipped and with defered maintenance, having sell prices very close to those that have numerous quality upgrades and which have been well taken care of. Buyers often figure just the cost of an extra without the commissioning cost of the item and that can be very significant. Bringing a boat back from lack of maintenance can be time consuming and costly. With regard to the comment about "being tender": There are two sides to this. Like Bryan C, I too have a 35 footer and it has a fairly tall rig, hence, it can lean in a wind. The good side to this is in light wind I can keep sailing where as many other sailors take their sails down and motor. The down side is when the wind pipes up I will have to reef earlier than the boat with a smaller sail area to displacement ratio. Since reefing is fairly easy this is not a problem for me. I've learned how to take care of my sails and reefing before the rail is in the water is one of the tools.
BUYERS WANT ADVICE
When the choice of new or used comes down to Hunter or Catalina, I think any smart buyer makes a diligent effort to research the best choice. I can't buy the argument that you just become loyal to whatever you buy, so don't worry about it, etc. Before I bought my Catalina 320, I too spent lots of time looking, talking, reading reviews, etc. But I did talk to a couple of local marine surveyors who unanimously recommended against the Hunter and for the Catalina. That's good enough for me!
When the choice of new or used comes down to Hunter or Catalina, I think any smart buyer makes a diligent effort to research the best choice. I can't buy the argument that you just become loyal to whatever you buy, so don't worry about it, etc. Before I bought my Catalina 320, I too spent lots of time looking, talking, reading reviews, etc. But I did talk to a couple of local marine surveyors who unanimously recommended against the Hunter and for the Catalina. That's good enough for me!
The problem is, Peter...
If you ask around long enough you'll also find a yard guys who will recommend the Hunter over the Catalina. Both brands have many satisfied owners and have remained popular for many years. If one boat were decidedly better than the other it would be common knowledge by now. And despite the claims by biased owners, it is not.
If you ask around long enough you'll also find a yard guys who will recommend the Hunter over the Catalina. Both brands have many satisfied owners and have remained popular for many years. If one boat were decidedly better than the other it would be common knowledge by now. And despite the claims by biased owners, it is not.
Marine Surveyor Knows
The marine surveyors I talked to have inspected hundreds of sailboats in Florida including lots of early and later model Hunters and Catalinas. They don't sell them for a living so I think they are reasonably objective. It's not that Hunter is a poor sailboat by any means, Catalina is just better in many respects including resale value. Check the BUC book. Then find me an experienced professional marine surveyor who will rate Hunter over Catalina! Good luck...
The marine surveyors I talked to have inspected hundreds of sailboats in Florida including lots of early and later model Hunters and Catalinas. They don't sell them for a living so I think they are reasonably objective. It's not that Hunter is a poor sailboat by any means, Catalina is just better in many respects including resale value. Check the BUC book. Then find me an experienced professional marine surveyor who will rate Hunter over Catalina! Good luck...
No merit to the resale price.
There is no merit to resale value. If you look at the price of the boats when they were new the Catalinas were more expensive to begin with. The price at the boat show this year for the Hunter 320 vs the Catalina 31/32 was about $20k more for the Cat's. This has alway been the case on the price of the boats. The base price of the Hunters has been less. The Hunters came equiped with anchors, lines, lifejackets and most everything that you needed to sail away from the dock. Very few if any other mfg had their boats fitted this way without spending additional money. And yes the Catalinas are stiffer boats. They generally have less sail area and are heavier than most of the Hunter. If you know when to reef it really does not make any difference, because everyone needs to reef, its just a matter of when. As far as asking a surveyor which boat is better, you might as well ask a mechanic on what is better Ford, Chevy, Dodge! Like everyone said this is a matter of prefrence (surveyor or not). I'll put my Hunter up again a similar vintage Catalina or any other production boat. It has held up extremely well. This whole issue a too subjective to determine the answer based on any single issue. I of course would not trade my Hunter 31 for a Catalina 30. My response is to the original post is to look at all the boats that you are interested in. Do as much research as you can on the plus/minus qualities of the boats. Talk to as many owners of these boats as you can and try to hitch a ride on similar boat and see what fits you the best. But don't listen to the surveyor and which boat is best it only one mans OPINION. So just remember "Love the one you're with".
There is no merit to resale value. If you look at the price of the boats when they were new the Catalinas were more expensive to begin with. The price at the boat show this year for the Hunter 320 vs the Catalina 31/32 was about $20k more for the Cat's. This has alway been the case on the price of the boats. The base price of the Hunters has been less. The Hunters came equiped with anchors, lines, lifejackets and most everything that you needed to sail away from the dock. Very few if any other mfg had their boats fitted this way without spending additional money. And yes the Catalinas are stiffer boats. They generally have less sail area and are heavier than most of the Hunter. If you know when to reef it really does not make any difference, because everyone needs to reef, its just a matter of when. As far as asking a surveyor which boat is better, you might as well ask a mechanic on what is better Ford, Chevy, Dodge! Like everyone said this is a matter of prefrence (surveyor or not). I'll put my Hunter up again a similar vintage Catalina or any other production boat. It has held up extremely well. This whole issue a too subjective to determine the answer based on any single issue. I of course would not trade my Hunter 31 for a Catalina 30. My response is to the original post is to look at all the boats that you are interested in. Do as much research as you can on the plus/minus qualities of the boats. Talk to as many owners of these boats as you can and try to hitch a ride on similar boat and see what fits you the best. But don't listen to the surveyor and which boat is best it only one mans OPINION. So just remember "Love the one you're with".
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