What are the top three survey items most important in surveying a mid '80's 30? My guess: the engine, the hull, the standing rigging. Since I'm a diver I can survey below the waterline, so can I save some bucks having an in-the-water survey?
Catalina 30 survey question
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C30s
In addition to any standard "this old boat" stuff -- (i.e., neglect of chainplates on ANY boat will cause problems, so it is not necessarily related to a C30)
1. Traveler - the old curved travelers were often replaced with newer Garhauer straight travelers - a very important feature for sailing
2. Engine
(a) stuffing box - barely accessible, should be checked
(b) exhaust riser - ditto
(c) engine wiring harness (see: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-harness-upgrade.html) - this is applicable to C27s to C36s
You should also go look at the C30 Association website: www.catalina30.com
In addition to any standard "this old boat" stuff -- (i.e., neglect of chainplates on ANY boat will cause problems, so it is not necessarily related to a C30)
1. Traveler - the old curved travelers were often replaced with newer Garhauer straight travelers - a very important feature for sailing
2. Engine
(a) stuffing box - barely accessible, should be checked
(b) exhaust riser - ditto
(c) engine wiring harness (see: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-harness-upgrade.html) - this is applicable to C27s to C36s
You should also go look at the C30 Association website: www.catalina30.com
C30 Survey
AADiver:I spent many a day, month and years at Shoreline Marina (V dock and T dock) and was a ShorelineYC member.
I've looked a few boats in my day and it doesn't take me long to size them up. The first thing I look at as I approach the boat is the overall upkeep - does it show pride of ownership. Next I'm looking at the sail trim hardware and the condition it is in. I also glance at the rigging. What I'm looking for is cracks in the swages. If you see cracks at the deck level imagine what is up top where you can't see it. Mind you, I've done all this and I'm still on the finger pier!!
Next stop is the engine. By far this is the biggest ticket item on the boat. I'm looking at general appearance only. I'm not a mechanic so if the sale moved on I would have a mechanic check the engine. In conjunction with the engine look see I check the bilge. Does it look like the Valdez oil spill and smell of gas/diesel? While I'm down there I check the tranny. What do the shift connector look like? That takes care of the engine. By the way, if the engine is an Atomic 4 I keep that in the back of my mind to use as a bargaining piece. I would never let the Atomic 4 stand in my way. I like it as well as the diesel - maybe more!!
Next stop is the sails. Raise the main and roll out the jib. If they are on their last legs that becomes the second biggest ticket item.
The third biggest ticket itemn is the rigging. I look a little closer at the swages checking for cracks. If the rigging has barrel type turnbuckles you can count on replacing the rigging because it only last about 10 to 12 years in salt conditions.
Next is the hull. If you have a survey generally the boat has to be hauled. I surveyer won't take your word for it but you as a diver could check it out for yourself. Probably a boat of the age you are looking at has blister. I don't really worry about blisters unless they are massive ones and entirely cover the boat. I've never heard of a C30 or any catalina sinking due to blisters. I do keep blisters in the back of my mind as a bargaining chip.
AADiver:I spent many a day, month and years at Shoreline Marina (V dock and T dock) and was a ShorelineYC member.
I've looked a few boats in my day and it doesn't take me long to size them up. The first thing I look at as I approach the boat is the overall upkeep - does it show pride of ownership. Next I'm looking at the sail trim hardware and the condition it is in. I also glance at the rigging. What I'm looking for is cracks in the swages. If you see cracks at the deck level imagine what is up top where you can't see it. Mind you, I've done all this and I'm still on the finger pier!!
Next stop is the engine. By far this is the biggest ticket item on the boat. I'm looking at general appearance only. I'm not a mechanic so if the sale moved on I would have a mechanic check the engine. In conjunction with the engine look see I check the bilge. Does it look like the Valdez oil spill and smell of gas/diesel? While I'm down there I check the tranny. What do the shift connector look like? That takes care of the engine. By the way, if the engine is an Atomic 4 I keep that in the back of my mind to use as a bargaining piece. I would never let the Atomic 4 stand in my way. I like it as well as the diesel - maybe more!!
Next stop is the sails. Raise the main and roll out the jib. If they are on their last legs that becomes the second biggest ticket item.
The third biggest ticket itemn is the rigging. I look a little closer at the swages checking for cracks. If the rigging has barrel type turnbuckles you can count on replacing the rigging because it only last about 10 to 12 years in salt conditions.
Next is the hull. If you have a survey generally the boat has to be hauled. I surveyer won't take your word for it but you as a diver could check it out for yourself. Probably a boat of the age you are looking at has blister. I don't really worry about blisters unless they are massive ones and entirely cover the boat. I've never heard of a C30 or any catalina sinking due to blisters. I do keep blisters in the back of my mind as a bargaining chip.
Great info on this site
there's this: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=102541
there's this: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=102541
Water intrusion
The boat had a drenching last night in a heavy rainstorm and no water intrusion, so she passed that "acid test"
Re: C30 Survey
Thanks for the tips. I'm already getting buyers remorse and I haven't "bought" it yet! Compared to my 250, an "elder" 30 is complex. Since I'm a diesel/electrical/electronic Luddite I've got to do some serious reconsidering.
Thanks for the tips. I'm already getting buyers remorse and I haven't "bought" it yet! Compared to my 250, an "elder" 30 is complex. Since I'm a diesel/electrical/electronic Luddite I've got to do some serious reconsidering.
It is easy to get intimidated by the systems on the Catalina 30. The things is that when you take a step back they are pretty basic. It isn't really that hard to work on.
Have the survey done and have them hall the boat out. They should be checked this way. The survey is a cheap thing that will let you know if this is a good idea or not. It will also give you a checklist on what needs to be done, what could be done, and what is done right on the boat. Priceless in many ways. Besides, an insurance company will want your boat to have a survey before they insure it.
The diesel engine isn't that bad to work on. Think of the basics....Oil Change, Impeller Change, and Fuel Filter Change. If these are done regularly a diesel will run for a long time. If a Diesel doesn't start it is one of a few issues....either it isn't getting any electricty to start with the starter or it isn't getting fuel. You can work from there and the first place to start if you have descent batteries is the fuel filter.
Think of the big difference in room that you will get on this boat. Standing room inside, inboard diesel, and all kinds of other nice features.
Have the survey done and have them hall the boat out. They should be checked this way. The survey is a cheap thing that will let you know if this is a good idea or not. It will also give you a checklist on what needs to be done, what could be done, and what is done right on the boat. Priceless in many ways. Besides, an insurance company will want your boat to have a survey before they insure it.
The diesel engine isn't that bad to work on. Think of the basics....Oil Change, Impeller Change, and Fuel Filter Change. If these are done regularly a diesel will run for a long time. If a Diesel doesn't start it is one of a few issues....either it isn't getting any electricty to start with the starter or it isn't getting fuel. You can work from there and the first place to start if you have descent batteries is the fuel filter.
Think of the big difference in room that you will get on this boat. Standing room inside, inboard diesel, and all kinds of other nice features.
Just to add one other thing: a bad electrical connection(s), usually the engine ground wiring.
There's a ton of information on the engines in these boats, both here and on particular Association websites. Many Catalinas have exactly the same systems, so for instance the C30, C34 and C36 websites have some duplicate, but thoroughly complimentary information, as well as diesel websites. You name it, the question's been asked and answered, so help is always only a touch away.. When we bought ours in 1998, I was at first intimidated by the diesel, but I learned, read, practiced and find that Bad O is absolutely correct. Heck, if we can do it, so can you!:dance:
BTW, this forum has its own C30 Section! Go to Forums and see the popup to the Catalina Owners Forums and then the C30 Link. How easy is that? Which is how you got here, too.
Stu...you are right. Bad electrical connection is something that happens. It happened in my Uncle's Catalina 24 (1988) and he had to sand the ground connection. He also had a starter button break and replaced it. These are really easy things to fix.
I had to switch the key on my panel because it wouldn't come out without taking the panel apart. It was also very easy to replace.
The beauty of sailboats is that, even though they seem complex at first, most things on them are very basic. I would much rather work on a boat then a house or a car!
I had to switch the key on my panel because it wouldn't come out without taking the panel apart. It was also very easy to replace.
The beauty of sailboats is that, even though they seem complex at first, most things on them are very basic. I would much rather work on a boat then a house or a car!
Mast Compression Post
A very weak link for the 30 Catalina is compression post decay. The stepped mast sits on top of the deck on a plate supported by a compression post noted in the bildge and upward. Take a look at the door to the head. Is is hard to close? Rubs against the upper frame? Is their signs of a slight indentation under the mast on the deck? If these show up, the mast compression post has been slowly rotting away and is weakening.
The late Mark II model (19881/2 - on) had a factory change in the compression post. They went from fiberglass covered wood to metal to remedy the problem. There is a site on "fixing the compression post", but it can be an expensive fix and a possible deal breaker if the yard is going to do it. I am not sure what the cost would be since its alll labor (someone chime in please), but pricey. You have to drop the mast, dig out the post from the bildge up, install the metal support and maybe repair the deck and restep the mast.
To me, this is a key surveying bullet on the Catalina 30, especially if your looking at the older models.
Next is the infamous "smile" when the keelbolts rust and the rust weeps through the fairing material between the hull and keel. This area would split open over time and a "smile" would form along the fairing line. Its ugly if you can imagine rust leeching from the smile!! Catalina went to stainless keel bolts, but I am not certain when. I know my 1988 Model has the stainless bolts. This is something you might not see when diving the boat as the "smile" could be covered or blended in with bottom growth. This can be an expensive fix as well as the keel may have to be removed to repair the damage, newer stainless bolts inserted and fairing material applied.
With any vessel you buy, NOTHING beats a thorough survey by a competent surveyor, especially one that knows the Catalina 30. Do not go on a "dive" alone to establish hull, keel and rudder condition. The vessel MUST be pulled pressure washed and thoroughly inspected.
With patience you'll have a wonderful and worthy vessel and the Catalina 30 is a great vessel to own and operate.
Best of luck
Bob
Breezin II
1988 Mark II
Georgia
A very weak link for the 30 Catalina is compression post decay. The stepped mast sits on top of the deck on a plate supported by a compression post noted in the bildge and upward. Take a look at the door to the head. Is is hard to close? Rubs against the upper frame? Is their signs of a slight indentation under the mast on the deck? If these show up, the mast compression post has been slowly rotting away and is weakening.
The late Mark II model (19881/2 - on) had a factory change in the compression post. They went from fiberglass covered wood to metal to remedy the problem. There is a site on "fixing the compression post", but it can be an expensive fix and a possible deal breaker if the yard is going to do it. I am not sure what the cost would be since its alll labor (someone chime in please), but pricey. You have to drop the mast, dig out the post from the bildge up, install the metal support and maybe repair the deck and restep the mast.
To me, this is a key surveying bullet on the Catalina 30, especially if your looking at the older models.
Next is the infamous "smile" when the keelbolts rust and the rust weeps through the fairing material between the hull and keel. This area would split open over time and a "smile" would form along the fairing line. Its ugly if you can imagine rust leeching from the smile!! Catalina went to stainless keel bolts, but I am not certain when. I know my 1988 Model has the stainless bolts. This is something you might not see when diving the boat as the "smile" could be covered or blended in with bottom growth. This can be an expensive fix as well as the keel may have to be removed to repair the damage, newer stainless bolts inserted and fairing material applied.
With any vessel you buy, NOTHING beats a thorough survey by a competent surveyor, especially one that knows the Catalina 30. Do not go on a "dive" alone to establish hull, keel and rudder condition. The vessel MUST be pulled pressure washed and thoroughly inspected.
With patience you'll have a wonderful and worthy vessel and the Catalina 30 is a great vessel to own and operate.
Best of luck
Bob
Breezin II
1988 Mark II
Georgia
I bought a Catalina 30 in Sept 08 after having a proffessional survey done. Luckly the boat was already out of the water so survey could see hull. For me the condition of the engine, the hull (including keel bolts) and rigging were most important. Results we're good so I bought the boat. I've had fun making it my own but for the cost, I felt I got my money's worth on the survey. I've put new running rigging on it, and an adjustable traveler. I agree that the curved traveler is a bit undersized, jibes are a bit scary as I watch that traveler move. Ran the halyards aft for easy single handing. Replaced all the electrical toggles switches and put new 12V lights throughout. Installed a bilge pump switch and wired it so AUTO still works. Put in a sea water filter and then found the water pump was leaking so replaced it. I ran an extra 110V circuit to the galley where I installed a microwave and a small toaster. While doing this ran an extra line for a future fridge.
Now I'm working with an intermittent starting issue which I read may be due to higher resistance in the 12V circuit to the solenoid that can be improved by larger gauge wiring. Its actually fun debugging these little things, just don't let them get to you.
Paul
Now I'm working with an intermittent starting issue which I read may be due to higher resistance in the 12V circuit to the solenoid that can be improved by larger gauge wiring. Its actually fun debugging these little things, just don't let them get to you.
Paul
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