I am hoping someone might have an idea of what my problem is with our pushbutton start on my 1981 Catalina 30. Here's the list of symptoms. I went on a long weekend cruise. I had to motor to and back based on wind conditions and the trip was about 2.5 hours each way. I got into our slip without any problems. A couple days later I came back and went to start the boat. Turned on the key, which made it's alarm sound. Pushed the glowplug button which buzzed the way it does. Then when I pushed the start button, not a sound. Not a click or crank of the starter. Nothing. The fact I got sound out of the other connections on the Admiral Board told me there was some power getting to the board. When I pressed the start button the volt meter on the Admiral Board dropped to almost the nothing. I figured my battery had gone bad. I put the volt meter on the leads and got 12. 4 volts. I hear that even if the ohm meter looks good there is another reading for starting the boat so I pulled the battery and took it to Batteries + to get tested. The battery passed voltage and start tests with flying colors. I tested the connections on the Admiral Board with the volt meter and saw 12 or 13 volts between the different connections. I tested the key ignition connections with the key in the off position and saw 13 volts. The glowplug and push-button start both were 0 volts with the key in the off position. I turned the key to the on position and when testing the connections on the key ignition got 0 volts. When I tested the glowplug I got 13 volts. When I test the connections on the push-button start I got 0 volts. The push-button start gets power from a connection to the glow plug so I tested a connection between the glowplug and the push-button starter and got 13 volts. During all of this when I tried to start the boat the key alarm sounded when the key was turned to the on position and the glowplug crackled when I pushed it but the push-button did not make a sound. So...I took the push-button starter out of the panel. Then I turned the key on, pushed the glowplug button and when I pushed the button for the push-button start the damn engine started. What the...? I'm thinking about running new wires? Any thoughts? So weird.
Catalina 30 push-button start mystery
- Thread starter BAdrianWhite
- Start date
Check the fuse in the wire between the start button and the starter solenoid. It's usually cleverly hidden under the alternator. Sometimes and usually the fuseholder dies and either the plastic housing comes apart or the springs/contacts lose their connection.
Did you check continuity through the start button when pressed?
Did you try jumping the wires on the start button.
When I bought my C30 the start button worked intermittently. Changed the button and all was fine.
And what @Stu Jackson said.
Did you try jumping the wires on the start button.
When I bought my C30 the start button worked intermittently. Changed the button and all was fine.
And what @Stu Jackson said.
I got a little lost in the details but this sounds like the classic wiring harness problem. There've been many threads about this. Basically you need either a heavier wire from the button to the starter solenoid, or a relay at the solenoid. Test by running an auxiliary wire from the button to the solenoid. It doesn't need to be routed in a complicated fashion. You'll see pretty quickly if that's the problem.
Or it may be the button but I think you tested that and it started.
Or it may be the button but I think you tested that and it started.
I have had no start issues on and off for 3 years on my 1987 TRBS M25. I read on this forum by mainsail that the heavy battery cables that run from the control battery switch and to the engine were just big enough from the factory and after 30 +yrs are undersized and lose too much voltage. He recommended replacing all the large wires with '0' gauge marine tinned wire and boy was he right! My engine spins up to start like a new starter was installed, like he said.I have had no issues starting since I replaced all the battery cables. I measured all cables and had US battery cables company pre-make all the cables with terminals installed. Was not cheap($400), but I know my engine will start whenever I need it to, great peace of mind.
Just for reference, here's what my wiring harness looked like, and IT STILL WORKED!!! until I opened it up of course. But this is the cause of MANY cockpit panel electrical issues.
You don't need to diagnose the engine harness trailer plug. If you still have it, you must replace it!!! You can bypass it altogether if you want, or make some other kind of junction box like I did, but don't bother trying to trouble shoot it, just replace it and get that out of the way.
I might add that I had already replaced the trailer connectors, ignition switch, push button for starter, cleaned all grounds, and STILL I had no start issues until I replaced all the battery cables!
My boat came with the old degraded #4 wire that was losing over 2V to the starter, so I'm very familiar with that issue. The OP's described immediate issue seems more related to connections though. But, yes, I would do all of that too. Sometimes we gotta sail though.
I don't refute any of these claims about battery cables. My experience is the polar opposite. My boat is almost identical to all these C30s, just bigger, same M25 engine.
But I have to ask myself WHAT HAS CHANGED since they built the boat?
--- the starter is the same
--- the main electrical panel is the same and the loads haven't changed (I have a fridge.)
So the OEM #4 cables that connect the house battery bank to 1-2-B switch and then to the electrical distribution panel have seen NO CHANGE in those loads. #4 cable is adequate for those loads. [#4 is good for 30A for from 30 to 40 feet. I encourage ANYONE to show me how a C30 or a C34 or even a C470!!! could draw 30A from its main electrical distribution panel. Sure, you'd have to turn everything on AT ONCE!!! but when have you run your macerator pump and freshwater pump and shower drain pump with your running lights AND anchor and steaming lights ALL AT THE SAME TIME? Please, please, please: think about it.]
The OEM #4 cable that connects the 1-2-B switch C post to the starter HAS NOT CHANGED. Eons ago Maine Sail showed us the actual amp load of the starter and the milliseconds it takes.
My OEM #4 cables are just fine. The loads HAVE NOT changed to require increasing the wire size.
I HAVE routed my new 100A alternator direct to my house bank with #2 cable. Only increase I've made, due to the amperage being applied.
If you choose to increase their size, that's just fine. I just find it completely UN-warranted from an electrical load perspective, or reality.
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Critical Upgrades CRITICAL UPGRADES - DO THESE OR ELSE!!!
But I have to ask myself WHAT HAS CHANGED since they built the boat?
--- the starter is the same
--- the main electrical panel is the same and the loads haven't changed (I have a fridge.)
So the OEM #4 cables that connect the house battery bank to 1-2-B switch and then to the electrical distribution panel have seen NO CHANGE in those loads. #4 cable is adequate for those loads. [#4 is good for 30A for from 30 to 40 feet. I encourage ANYONE to show me how a C30 or a C34 or even a C470!!! could draw 30A from its main electrical distribution panel. Sure, you'd have to turn everything on AT ONCE!!! but when have you run your macerator pump and freshwater pump and shower drain pump with your running lights AND anchor and steaming lights ALL AT THE SAME TIME? Please, please, please: think about it.]
The OEM #4 cable that connects the 1-2-B switch C post to the starter HAS NOT CHANGED. Eons ago Maine Sail showed us the actual amp load of the starter and the milliseconds it takes.
My OEM #4 cables are just fine. The loads HAVE NOT changed to require increasing the wire size.
I HAVE routed my new 100A alternator direct to my house bank with #2 cable. Only increase I've made, due to the amperage being applied.
If you choose to increase their size, that's just fine. I just find it completely UN-warranted from an electrical load perspective, or reality.
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Critical Upgrades CRITICAL UPGRADES - DO THESE OR ELSE!!!
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All true but what does change is that with new cables come clean wire and new terminations. After 20, 30 maybe close to 40 years these things do degrade, especially in the crimp area. What you also get with new cables is the extra attention you probably pay making sure the connections at the battery, the engine and the switch are clean. To avoid an expensive endeavor, inspection and retermination might be as good as new battery cables.
What was originally undersized was the wire from the start button to the solenoid (as shemander suggested in post 4). That was also covered in a Westerbeke/Universal service bulletin. I think that wire was originally only 16 gauge! And as Stu suggested in post 2 above the fuse and its holder in this wire often corrode and create resistance or fail altogether.
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You are absolutely correct in that statement.
My 30 year old non-tinned #4 wire was losing about 2 volts or more across it when trying to start the engine. Replacing it with new #4 tinned wire would have been enough. A slightly larger wire size is debatably going to last longer?
Geez, sorry to have stirred up a hornet's nest about battery cables! I was just trying to tell jonelli my experience with the no start issue on my boat. I don't claim to be an electrical engineer and all of you are probably right about sizing of cables but I won't argue with success. If I went overboard on the sizing so be it. Four boat units is not that much compared to all the other expenses these old boats rack up. I will end this with the standard your boat your choice.
No hornets nest at all, it was a very good discussion. In fact, I've been meaning to write what I did about cable sizes for a few years, and thanks to your prompt, I finally got off my keister and did it!
Thank you very much. I've saved it so you might even see it again! I do not doubt that larger cables, while not very much more cost than OEM sizes, are not a bad investment and certainly worthwhile, but not necessary. That was my point. I've seen altogether too many posts where folks seem to think it is necessary. It's not, electrically.
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Edit to add: please note that this issue is for the cables from the house bank to the 1-2-B switch. If you have electronics dropouts or other low voltage operational issues, there are other ways of dealing with that including different switching, battery banks arrangement, ACR selection and others. You'll need to do your own homework on those options.
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Besides, Richard's right about the connections, but I think we can all agree that replacing cables because of poor connectors is not necessarily a reasonable approach, for starters (pun intended!!!). Keeping connectors clean is what's required.
I think I should have copyrighted that. Glad to see it's become "a standard." Gee, just like every song on Fleetwood Mac's Rumors album!
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For a quick and easy solution to the wiring harness problem, I found this to be the easiest and cheapest :
Don't worry about the wiring connections. The above is the "as built" drawing showing the quick, easy, and dirty wiring connections on the engine. It's not a simplified schematic drawing.
Here is the relay just outside the engine housing :
All of the wiring is within a foot or two of the engine so it's about as simple an install as you can get.
Don't worry about the wiring connections. The above is the "as built" drawing showing the quick, easy, and dirty wiring connections on the engine. It's not a simplified schematic drawing.
Here is the relay just outside the engine housing :
All of the wiring is within a foot or two of the engine so it's about as simple an install as you can get.