I have my boat purchase narrowed down to two boats. A 1973 Catalina 27 , or an 1977 Irwin 28. Both are within $500 of each other, and wanted to know what your thoughts are. At this point I can't decide. Both boats seem to have their pluses and minuses. With that said, I'd like some opinions.Both have inboard diesals, but the Irwin has wheel steering vs. tiller with the Catalina. Thanks for your help. Leo
- Status
go with you love
Ahh, choices. There is a website that compares boats statistically. Carl's Sail Calculator v2.72. Carl's Sail Calculator v2.72. I suppose the tiller vs. wheel is a personal thing, but most prefer the wheel. As for the rest, the price you pay will negate the one over the other in one aspect. I'd prefer the larger boat, if the price were the same or so. Catalina has a better reputation, and should sell better when you want to resell it.
Ahh, choices. There is a website that compares boats statistically. Carl's Sail Calculator v2.72. Carl's Sail Calculator v2.72. I suppose the tiller vs. wheel is a personal thing, but most prefer the wheel. As for the rest, the price you pay will negate the one over the other in one aspect. I'd prefer the larger boat, if the price were the same or so. Catalina has a better reputation, and should sell better when you want to resell it.
Depends on what you want
The Catalina will have better performance, the Irwin is probably roomier below. Will most of your time be spent in the cockpit sailing or will you do a lot of overnighting and staying on the boat at the slip? That size is about a break-even for wheel steering - more to go wrong, less "feel," takes up lots of cockpit space, but it looks good and makes it seem like a larger boat. What shape are the sails in? If one has noticeably better sails (condition and brand), or more, that is a big plus. Several sets of worn out sails are worthless. Catalina has a good rep for customer service, don't know about Irwin.
The Catalina will have better performance, the Irwin is probably roomier below. Will most of your time be spent in the cockpit sailing or will you do a lot of overnighting and staying on the boat at the slip? That size is about a break-even for wheel steering - more to go wrong, less "feel," takes up lots of cockpit space, but it looks good and makes it seem like a larger boat. What shape are the sails in? If one has noticeably better sails (condition and brand), or more, that is a big plus. Several sets of worn out sails are worthless. Catalina has a good rep for customer service, don't know about Irwin.
Tough choice!
Having just bought a Starwind 27 with wheel steering, I think I would rather have a tiller for a boat this size. Getting around the wheel (especially with the bimini on) is a bit of a nuisance and makes the driver almost useless for doing other sail trimming tasks because it is difficult to get around the wheel. But this wouldn't be the biggest issue for me. Other than that, I would base my decision based on the overall condition of the boats interior, exterior and equipment. When you see stuff you don't like, you just seem to keep pulling out the wallet to make the upgrade. What about roller furling? Do both boats have it with a 150 genny? I never considered it important enough until we started handling the new genny we bought because I was dissatisfied with the performance from the 110 jib that came with the boat. That is going to be my upgrade this winter. Last, which one makes your heart beat faster when you see it at the dock? Real estate brokers call it curb appeal. I'm not sure what sailors call it. I just know that this emotional factor is really hard to get around if your head is telling you something different than your heart. It is hard to be satisfied with something that doesn't measure up in this regard, and the money saved can seem unimportant. Finally ... are you near the Tappen Zee? My wife and I are thinking about moving our boat to that location and would like to hear any comments.
Having just bought a Starwind 27 with wheel steering, I think I would rather have a tiller for a boat this size. Getting around the wheel (especially with the bimini on) is a bit of a nuisance and makes the driver almost useless for doing other sail trimming tasks because it is difficult to get around the wheel. But this wouldn't be the biggest issue for me. Other than that, I would base my decision based on the overall condition of the boats interior, exterior and equipment. When you see stuff you don't like, you just seem to keep pulling out the wallet to make the upgrade. What about roller furling? Do both boats have it with a 150 genny? I never considered it important enough until we started handling the new genny we bought because I was dissatisfied with the performance from the 110 jib that came with the boat. That is going to be my upgrade this winter. Last, which one makes your heart beat faster when you see it at the dock? Real estate brokers call it curb appeal. I'm not sure what sailors call it. I just know that this emotional factor is really hard to get around if your head is telling you something different than your heart. It is hard to be satisfied with something that doesn't measure up in this regard, and the money saved can seem unimportant. Finally ... are you near the Tappen Zee? My wife and I are thinking about moving our boat to that location and would like to hear any comments.
my 2 cents
I had an Irwin 32 for 12 years. I sailed aboard a Catalina 27 for a week. the Irwin 28 is not a 32. I liked my 32 much more, but the Cat was a good boat. Neither boat is going to be a rocket. You are not going to notice the difference in performance unless you are a PHRF guy. Both are coastal cruisers with construction limitations. Having had a tiller and a wheel, I would never go back to tiller. With these two boats the feel of the tiller ain't gonna matter, and unless racing is important, who cares? To me it boils down to interior with an edge going to the wheel. Tillers are a pain in the butt with friends on board.
I had an Irwin 32 for 12 years. I sailed aboard a Catalina 27 for a week. the Irwin 28 is not a 32. I liked my 32 much more, but the Cat was a good boat. Neither boat is going to be a rocket. You are not going to notice the difference in performance unless you are a PHRF guy. Both are coastal cruisers with construction limitations. Having had a tiller and a wheel, I would never go back to tiller. With these two boats the feel of the tiller ain't gonna matter, and unless racing is important, who cares? To me it boils down to interior with an edge going to the wheel. Tillers are a pain in the butt with friends on board.
Cat'27
Here’s a Catalina 27 (California): http://www.yachtauctions.com/detail.asp?stockNo=12921 Bidding starts at $5500
Here’s a Catalina 27 (California): http://www.yachtauctions.com/detail.asp?stockNo=12921 Bidding starts at $5500
Another choice
My extensively renovated and well founded '72 Coronado 27 is available for the reasonable offer around $6K.
My extensively renovated and well founded '72 Coronado 27 is available for the reasonable offer around $6K.
Catalina's still in business;
Irwin, Starwind, Coronado, etc. aren't. One other thing to consider is that Catalina still exists and supports their older boat models. There is no vendor support for any of the other boats. Things break, wear out, etc. Factory support can go a long way in repairing your beauty once she starts to look a little dumpy. Steve Alchemist
Irwin, Starwind, Coronado, etc. aren't. One other thing to consider is that Catalina still exists and supports their older boat models. There is no vendor support for any of the other boats. Things break, wear out, etc. Factory support can go a long way in repairing your beauty once she starts to look a little dumpy. Steve Alchemist
Relevance of Still in Business
I don't know that I agree on the relevance of Catalina being in business while Irwin isn't. Beyond the hull and interior, very few of the parts for a boat are "custom" made. In other words, the parts are still available. Masts are OEM by other companies, spars, engines, etc. I would say any influence the current business status of the manufacturer has is minimal. The appeal of the boat, and the condition, is much more important.
I don't know that I agree on the relevance of Catalina being in business while Irwin isn't. Beyond the hull and interior, very few of the parts for a boat are "custom" made. In other words, the parts are still available. Masts are OEM by other companies, spars, engines, etc. I would say any influence the current business status of the manufacturer has is minimal. The appeal of the boat, and the condition, is much more important.
I like the Irwin......
if condition is the same, and I'm a C27 owner. There is a pretty good Irwin owner's association. The basic Irwin 28 sold for 20k in 1976, the same generation cat 27 sold for about 15k. Count up the amenities, the most important being condition of the engine. You'll also want to compare things like holding tank systems, battery systems, shorepower and charging systems, rigging, deck hardware, (new or old winches) Sail inventory and condition, underwater bottom condition, (pay a diver to take a look).... electronics, instruments, is there a dodger, ground tackle and storage. What about the galley, has it been upgraded from the old princess stoves.... the list goes on. All these things were extras. The 28 came in a swing keel model, check to make sure you know what yours is and whether it's a feature you want. Here's a link to Irwin Yachts website.
if condition is the same, and I'm a C27 owner. There is a pretty good Irwin owner's association. The basic Irwin 28 sold for 20k in 1976, the same generation cat 27 sold for about 15k. Count up the amenities, the most important being condition of the engine. You'll also want to compare things like holding tank systems, battery systems, shorepower and charging systems, rigging, deck hardware, (new or old winches) Sail inventory and condition, underwater bottom condition, (pay a diver to take a look).... electronics, instruments, is there a dodger, ground tackle and storage. What about the galley, has it been upgraded from the old princess stoves.... the list goes on. All these things were extras. The 28 came in a swing keel model, check to make sure you know what yours is and whether it's a feature you want. Here's a link to Irwin Yachts website.
The winner is ......... Catalina
Thanks for all your great advice. After really checking out both boats, the Catalina has won. It has a dodger, rebuilt a-4 , and roller furling. The Irwin had the fixed keel (4 ft. draft vs. 3.6) and the interior wasn't in that great shape. The only thing I really like was the pedistal steering. I guess if I want one that badly, I'll look for on used. Thanks again. Happy sailing.
Thanks for all your great advice. After really checking out both boats, the Catalina has won. It has a dodger, rebuilt a-4 , and roller furling. The Irwin had the fixed keel (4 ft. draft vs. 3.6) and the interior wasn't in that great shape. The only thing I really like was the pedistal steering. I guess if I want one that badly, I'll look for on used. Thanks again. Happy sailing.
- Status