Catalina 27 Mast Height

[Jdaniel343]

I have a 1977 Catalina 27. I purchased this boat last year from an owner who had her since 1990. He sold it to me as a Tall Rig. He really did think it was a tall rig.
I lost my mast last September due to rig failure, all shrouds were replaced in April. Wire pulled out of turnbuckle fitting. I am in talks with the rigging company to make good on this.
Anyway, is there a way thru the serial number to determine if this really was a tall rig boat.
My old mast broke in two pieces. When measuring both pieces and adding them together I come up with 33', which should be a Std Rig boat. I believe a Tall Rig mast is 34.5'.
Any ideas?
I have located std rig mast but tall rig mast are somewhat hard to come by. Plus if this really is a std rig then I can keep my sails.

 

[JohnVTX]

You can give the hull number to catalina and they will tell you all about the boat. Call (818) 884-7700

 

[Donnybrook]

You never know what the PO might have done, but as far as I know, all TR 27's have a bowsprit.

 

[Jdaniel343]

I don't have a bow sprit.

 

[Benny17441]

At sailboatdata.com specs for the Catalina 27 list the regular mast at 34' and the tall rig at 36'. Interestingly they mention the taller mast was positioned farther aft than the regular and the boom is shorter by 10" at 9.67'. It does not say how far back the mast was set. The tall rig carries an additional 24 sq ft of sail area. These measurements could be average or rounded off but it is likely that from your measurements that you have a regular rig. The high aspect ratio of the tall rigs became popular in the late 70's and early 80's to the point that all manufacturers had to offer a TL model. Could not find production figures for the tall rig Catalina models but would surmise very few. Just be content that your boat will be similar to all other Catalina 27s that you are likely to meet and that you can get to keep your sails.

 

[Jdaniel343]

Thanks JohnVTX, I called Catalina and the boat was sold as a Std Rig boat.

 

[Joe]

Easiest to be sure is to measure the "J" dimension... that's the distance from the bow fitting to the front of the mast. Sailboatdata.com

The tall rig differs from the standard rig in that the mast was moved aft to accommodate a higher aspect mainsail and a larger headsail. The bowsprit was an option for all Catalina 27's, tall and standard, and could be added by owner also. So it is not definitive of tall rig.
Standard rig I: 34.0' J: 11.25' P: 28.67' E: 10.50'
Tall rig version available (w/mast moved aft.)
I: 36.0' J: 12.2' P: 29.67' E: 9.67'
The "I" is the hoist of the headsail, the "J" is the length of the foredeck.... IxJ=area of foredeck triangle.
The "P" is the hoist of the mainsail, the "E" is the length of the boom... PxE=mainsail area (with no roach)

To answer Benny's question: the mast was move approx. 1 foot farther aft on the tall rig..... the J dimension will define that.

 

[Benny17441]

Joe I had figured on 10" which would place the end of the boom at the same original location but was not sure. It did not occur to me to use the "J" measurement. So the actual distance would be closer to 11.5". Yes the measured length of the mast and the "J" length should confirm the boats model. Thanks Joe.

 

[Donnybrook]

The tall rig differs from the standard rig in that the mast was moved aft to accommodate a higher aspect mainsail and a larger headsail. The bowsprit was an option for all Catalina 27's, tall and standard, and could be added by owner also. So it is not definitive of tall rig.
I respectively disagree, at least for an 86 model. Only tall rigs got the bowsprit. Option #H 38 01 "Tall rig w/bow sprit". No other option is listed.
As far as the mast being moved aft, I can't be positive, but I doubt it. Since the 27's mast is deck stepped, to move the mast aft would require the compression post moved aft calling for a different floor pan, bulkhead, and deck arrangement. I don't think Catalina would do that.
As far as I know, Catalina used the same boom for both rigs. The foot of the sail is shorter on a tall rig, but the boom length is the same.

 

[Benny17441]

OK, I have one for you guys; has anyone ever seen a Tall Rig model? I 'm sure they must have manufactured a few of them just to be able to substantiate their claim to have such a model. Hunter with their 27'Cherubini went the other way, all the boats manufactured were Tall Rigs and although they gave specs for their standard rig model no one I know has seen one. Years ago someone claimed they had a late 70s standard rig but it could not been substantiated if it was re-rig of factory. During those years the Tall Rig designation became a powerful marketing tool and every manufacturer needed to carry them in their lineup whether they built them or not. The production 27's were affordable entry level keel boats and I doubt the offering of different models was in the production budget. I think donnybrook has a point as it relates to the late 80s models with the introduction of a bowsprit there was no need to move the mast but that design likely came latter. I do understand the complications of moving the masts back and redesigning the mast supports which brings me back to the question, has anyone seen a factory rigged tall rig from the earlier years?

 

[JohnVTX]

We have a 27 with a bow sprit in our marina

 

[Jdaniel343]

1970's to early 80's boats that I have seen had a deck stepped mast. From what I have read the tall rig models did have the mast moved to the rear about 10".

 

[Benny17441]

We have a 27 with a bow sprit in our marina

I mean is nothing important but if you have the chance inquire about the year model and if it was listed as a tall rig. I kind of have in the back of my mind from some 30 years ago that I seen a Catalina 27 that was for sale at a Miami marina and it was listed as a tall rig but I'm not sure if it is a figment of my imagination.

 

[JohnVTX]

It is a 1983 Tall Rig

 

[Jackdaw]

Two semi-random thoughts:

1) Data sources like sailboatdata.com are not all that authoritative. They really are 'fan sites' and one guy collects all the numbers from the same sources you and I can access. They are full of errors; I've corrected at least 5 within the Beneteau range. The guy who runs it is very thankful when you can provide a fact-based fix for some of his numbers.

2) I always thought that the extra J size on a 27 TR was produced not by the mast going backwards, by the movement FORWARD of the forestay by going to the sprit. I know that the sprit and the TR are mutually exclusive, but they happen together so much I figured that the number came from that setup (TR+sprit) once and then got replicated across all these 'data sites'.

 

[JohnVTX]

Two semi-random thoughts:

1) Data sources like sailboatdata.com are not all that authoritative. They really are 'fan sites' and one guy collects all the numbers from the same sources you and I can access. They are full of errors; I've corrected at least 5 within the Beneteau range. The guy who runs it is very thankful when you can provide a fact-based fix for some of his numbers.

2) I always thought that the extra J size on a 27 TR was produced not by the mast going backwards, by the movement FORWARD of the forestay by going to the sprit. I know that the sprit and the TR are mutually exclusive, but they happen together so much I figured that the number came from that setup (TR+sprit) once and then got replicated across all these 'data sites'.

Jack; you are correct. My 30 TR has the mast in the same spot as regular 30. I assume the 27 is the same.

 

[Joe]

The tall rig differs from the standard rig in that the mast was moved aft to accommodate a higher aspect mainsail and a larger headsail. The bowsprit was an option for all Catalina 27's, tall and standard, and could be added by owner also. So it is not definitive of tall rig.
I respectively disagree, at least for an 86 model. Only tall rigs got the bowsprit. Option #H 38 01 "Tall rig w/bow sprit". No other option is listed.
As far as the mast being moved aft, I can't be positive, but I doubt it. Since the 27's mast is deck stepped, to move the mast aft would require the compression post moved aft calling for a different floor pan, bulkhead, and deck arrangement. I don't think Catalina would do that.
As far as I know, Catalina used the same boom for both rigs. The foot of the sail is shorter on a tall rig, but the boom length is the same.

The tall rig differs from the standard rig in that the mast was moved aft to accommodate a higher aspect mainsail and a larger headsail. The bowsprit was an option for all Catalina 27's, tall and standard, and could be added by owner also. So it is not definitive of tall rig.
I respectively disagree, at least for an 86 model. Only tall rigs got the bowsprit. Option #H 38 01 "Tall rig w/bow sprit". No other option is listed.
As far as the mast being moved aft, I can't be positive, but I doubt it. Since the 27's mast is deck stepped, to move the mast aft would require the compression post moved aft calling for a different floor pan, bulkhead, and deck arrangement. I don't think Catalina would do that.
As far as I know, Catalina used the same boom for both rigs. The foot of the sail is shorter on a tall rig, but the boom length is the same.

You bring up some good points..... and I once thought that ONLY a tall rig could have a bowsprit. A few years back someone produced an order sheet for a 70's era Catalina 27 that included the bowsprit option.... you could also purchase the sprit directly from the Catalina factory. So....... it could be said that All Tall Rigs have bowsprits... but.... not all bowsprit equipped C27's are tall rigs.

But.... in all likelihood I sincerely believe as you do that it would be ludicrous for Catalina to re mold the deck to accommodated the mast step..... so I went to the C27.org site and studied the spec. sheet. Guess what... they list the overall length of the Tall rig as one foot longer that the OAL of the standard rig.... where the waterline for both is equal... So..... that would infer that rather that moving the mast aft..... the tall rig has the sailplan moved forward (by creating a larger fore triangle) via the addition of the sprit, taller mast and short foot mainsail.

Therefore, for the boat to be a tall rig the headstay must be tacked to a bowsprit, and the jib hoist and J dimension must concur with the stat sheet. I have no explanation for the sailboatdata.com comments.

 

[Biobob Catalina 27]

Spoke with a friend who has done a lot with Catalina boats and specifically the 27, he told me the tall rig has 2 spreaders instead of one. Don't know if fact or not, but that might be looked into as well. He also suggested the tall rig might actually have a slight differenced in the cabin and deck to accommodate the move of the mast step. Again, just his suggestion. Pretty sure mine is standard rig.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bob, nope & nope.