Catalina 25

[sailman5188]

Im looking at several sailboats trying to decide on the best boat for our family. My question is; what are the different sailing behaviors between the different keel types, fin, swing or wing. I like a stiff Stable boat that points well. I have always liked the lines of a catalina but have not sailed very many. Any advice welcomed.
Thanks in advance.
Tracy

 

[Stu Jackson]

Wow, a whole day and no one suggested you perhaps also ask here:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3

These are skippers you might want to get to know. This forum AND that one are great resources.

In answer to your OP, we had a fixed keel 1981 C25 for 12 years from 1987 to 1998. Great stable platform, had all I mean ALL of the sailing gear we now have on our bigger boat. Taught me well, very well.

Consensus has always been that the fin keels track and allow higher pointing by just a tad. Three models: fin, swing and wing. Wing's harder to find.

Happy hunting.

 

[Alansails]

We owned a Catalina 22, we brought from Buck Creek and than moved onto a Catalina 25 Tall Rig with Swing keel that we sailed on St. Marys and than onto Lake Erie. Catalina builds a great boat that will retain its value if kept up and is very friendly to sail. The hank on sails help it point as does fin keel but we raced our swing and came in 2nd in the Catalina 25 nationals in the tall rig division on lake erie! Its a great boat especially with shore power and pop top!

 

[azguy]

I'll weigh in as a new owner of a wing keel C22 and I had the pleasure to lake trial a few C22's and C25's with both fin and wing. I personally stayed away from swing keels as it'll be living in a slip.

I thought nice sails had more to do with pointing higher than the keel, but put on the spot the fin keels probably point a tad higher and heel more.

Since I was a newbie and wanted the best conditioned boat I could find I ended up with a wing keel.

 

[hewebb]

I have a Wing Keel and if I can keep the speed up a little it points better. I have a furler and it does not point as well as a hank on. My main is old so pointing is weak ( new sail ordered) I sail with a friend who has a fin keel and new hank on jib. His boat points better than mine.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

The original Catalina 22 and 25 came with either a cast iron swing keel or a fixed fin keel. The obvious advantage of the swing keel was trailerability and the fact that you could launch and retrieve the boat on most any ramp. The hydrodynamic shape of the swing keel is bill and not very efficient from that perspective. The fin keel is more hydrodynamically shaped so that it is by far the most efficient underwater blade of the three types (the wing being the third). The fin keel will enable the boat to point higher and sail better theoretically. It is by far the most efficient keel, but not good for launching and retrieving the boat on a ramp. The winged keel was brought about from the success of the Australian win in the America's Cup with their new winged keel design which provided more lift. Many production boat manufacturer's incorporated that concept, but because they do it in shoal draft configurations, the design really didn't provide the lift consistent with the Aussie's winning boat. But, the objective of the winged keel is to provide the most lift one can expect with a shoal draft configuration. Truth me known, the ugly swing keel made the Catalinas sail into the wind higher than the wing keel simply because the keel swung down deeper into the water, which is really the reason boats point higher. There is also a ballast issue here too. Often you will see that shoal keels are heavier than fin keels because shoal keel ballast is higher and this means that a fin keel can be less weight because it is lower in the water and so it provides the necessary righting moment with less weight, which also can mean less cost in the long run. The nice thing about a winged keel, in my opinion, is it has that trailer ability aspect like a swing keel and can be launched and retrieved on a ramp, but it doesn't make the boat sail higher into the wind, but rather is more efficient off the wind or running and if you stick it in a soft bottom, it can act more like an anchor and dig in making it a bit more difficult to get off. if you are looking for a better sailing boat, the fin is best. If you are looking for trailerability, then the swing keel is better because the keel gets lower into the water. I should also mention another thing......the Catalina 22 or 25 is only supposed to be self righting when the keel is in the down position. So, if you are sailing in heavier conditions, it is a good thing to have the keel down. If you don't like that little tidbit, and don't care about performance or sailing closer to the wind, get a winged keel.

 

[jrowan]

Bill's assessment is pretty much spot on. I also owned a C 22 & C 25. The C 25 is just an enlarged version of the original C 22, as are all of Catalina's larger boats. They are all essentally an enlarged & improved version of the last & smaller model as they work their way up in size. We had a swing keel, which by far is the most common. Because Catalina marketed the boat as a trailer sailer, of which it can still be called that because of the retractable keel. But they are quite a bear to lower the mast & rig unless you have a custom trailer with a vertical brace to help guide the mast up & down with a winch. I felt that the C 25 is a bear to trailer & didn't move it by vehicle much. Most don't get sold with sailboat trailers anyway, which are harder to come by.

The swng keel is a far more versatile boat as she can be sailed with the keel up in less then 2 feet of water. The C 25 also had a small but functional galley, a real head area, seperate V birth, nice traditional setee layout in the cabin, etc. She's a good starter boat, but without standing headroom, they can be quickly outgrown. The C 27 is a very good, mid sized, all around cruiser that is raced in many one design fleets and sails well.

 

[Stu Jackson]

1. The C 25 is just an enlarged version of the original C 22, as are all of Catalina's larger boats.

2. They are all essentally an enlarged & improved version of the last & smaller model as they work their way up in size.

3. The swng keel is a far more versatile boat as she can be sailed with the keel up in less then 2 feet of water.

4. The C 25 also had a small but functional galley, a real head area, seperate V birth, nice traditional setee layout in the cabin, etc.

5. She's a good starter boat, but without standing headroom, they can be quickly outgrown.

6. The C 27 is a very good, mid sized, all around cruiser that is raced in many one design fleets and sails well.

1. Catalina, IIRC, started with the C22& then the C30, then started the other sizes. I could be wrong, but there is a history of Catalina Yachts and Frank Butler "somewhere' on the internet webbie tubie thingy.

2. Depends on the down below layout, since the C25 had THREE, and C27 had TWO.

3. Versatile? We sure liked our fixed keel C25 in San Francisco, even in the shallow Delta. No moving parts... 1987 to 1998. Long time, good times.

4. The C25 had the three layouts: traditional, L and dinette. The frist two had LOTS of standing room below, the dinette not so much.

5. Pop tops and encloasures made the C25 pretty darned good at anchor.

6. Yup, sails darned well, and kicks a$$ here in PHRF.

 

[jrowan]

I owned a C 25 traditional layout & the "standing" headroom is about 5 foot 3" so unless your a hobbit you're going to bang your head pretty hard down below if you stand straight up. That's why Catalina offered the pop top, in order to claim that the boat had standing headroom, although only in the small area directly beneath the pop top or main hatch areas. This would be a 3 foot wide area of the cabin. Not what anyone would refer to as "LOTS" of standing room." LOL.
Perhaps the C 30 was built directly after the C 22, although that is the first mention of this I've ever heard of. But it doesn't take a naval architect to decipher that the C 25 is an enlarged version of the C 22. The C 27 is absolutely an enlarged version of a C 25, & the C 30 is the culmination of these designs in a well rounded cruiser. If you look at the layout of all of these yachts they are all incredibly similar in design & construction methods. This is indisputable. I've owned & sailed every one of these Catalina models, so I know them well & am pretty loyal to the Catalina Brand, most likely because they are a good value, have good sailing characteristics & are consistent. Catalina, either love them or hate 'em, they are extremely consistent, if not obsessively repetitious in their design philosophy. Indeed they do give the average sailor as much boat for the money that you can get.