I just purchased this Catalina 22 and found that the base of the entrance to the companionway is buckling. On the other side of it is the winch for the swing keel. I'm assuming it's rotted and would like instructions on how to properly repair it.
Catalina 23 Swing Keel
- Thread starter P0intnHold
- Start date
I looks like there may be wood under that surface fiberglass that has rotted out. You will have to open this area up and rebuild the structure then glass it back over. Without having pictures from further away, I've no idea what you have to work with in terms of where you get the structural support.
dj
dj
I'll post some more pictures, these two aren't great.but shows from little further back. The step is where the problem lies under. I have one picture that is from further back. The surface damage is at the base of the companionway entrance, the little step which is the housing and support for the keel winch. I'll climb inside and try to see how the wood bridge is braced. I've never done any fiberglass repair so I'm a bit nervous about cutting into it. I don't want to cut away more than I have to and then I'm a bit worried about it looking like hell when i put it back together. There is Nobody in the area that wants to do the job so it looks like I'm about to learn how to do it myself.
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That does not look like original design by the manufacturer but I don't really know.
You don't have structure holding that up. Your entire companionway opening is "floating" if you get what I mean.
Since you have a fair bit of work ahead of you. I'd suggest you find a better location for that winch. I'd also look at finding a more appropriate winch. But that's up to you.
You are probably going to have to replace that entire section that is currently broken and tie it into that companionway structure.
You may wish to spend time watching videos on Boatworks Today.. Andy is really excellent.
dj
You don't have structure holding that up. Your entire companionway opening is "floating" if you get what I mean.
Since you have a fair bit of work ahead of you. I'd suggest you find a better location for that winch. I'd also look at finding a more appropriate winch. But that's up to you.
You are probably going to have to replace that entire section that is currently broken and tie it into that companionway structure.
You may wish to spend time watching videos on Boatworks Today.. Andy is really excellent.
dj
That is the stock Catalina 22 design (I have a '72). I suggest you post on the Catalina 22 forum -- more owners there, but here is fine too. Yes, you do have to address it, and it may or may not be easy. I think if I were to do it, I'd cut the whole thing out and start again. You'll need some wood (3/4" plywood), fiberglass cloth and some Epoxy. And some time.
I'd cut the whole thing out and start by building up a plywood structure, kind of like a T or perhaps an L that will fit in the area. Then cover that with several coats of epoxy to seal it. Then I would clamp it in position and use some fiberglass and probably thickened epoxy to bond it to the structure. Once it's "glued" in place, I'd fiberglass the whole thing with more cloth and epoxy. Probably a couple of layers. Do some sanding and paint it.
Or you could make the structure to fit out of plywood, cover that with epoxy and fiberglass, then tab and glue it in, then another layer of fiberglass over the whole thing. All in all, not a huge project, but it will probably take some time -- letting the epoxy cure between coats, etc.
I also don't think that's the correct winch. The standard winch is self-braking and doesn't have that toggle on the port side. You don't want the ability for the keel to go from fully retracted to fully extended in a heart-beat if your hand slips off the winch. That will definitely cause more damage and probably let the lake / ocean in. Catalina Direct sells the winch, but other have sourced them from hardware stores, etc. for a lot less $$.
I'd cut the whole thing out and start by building up a plywood structure, kind of like a T or perhaps an L that will fit in the area. Then cover that with several coats of epoxy to seal it. Then I would clamp it in position and use some fiberglass and probably thickened epoxy to bond it to the structure. Once it's "glued" in place, I'd fiberglass the whole thing with more cloth and epoxy. Probably a couple of layers. Do some sanding and paint it.
Or you could make the structure to fit out of plywood, cover that with epoxy and fiberglass, then tab and glue it in, then another layer of fiberglass over the whole thing. All in all, not a huge project, but it will probably take some time -- letting the epoxy cure between coats, etc.
I also don't think that's the correct winch. The standard winch is self-braking and doesn't have that toggle on the port side. You don't want the ability for the keel to go from fully retracted to fully extended in a heart-beat if your hand slips off the winch. That will definitely cause more damage and probably let the lake / ocean in. Catalina Direct sells the winch, but other have sourced them from hardware stores, etc. for a lot less $$.
I appreciate the replies and suggestions. All will be considered during my planning attack. I am leaning towards cutting out the box for the winch, building a newly supported winch out of oak to match the grab handles, companionway trim and the tiller handle and sealing it all to the boat with epoxy. The keel actually raises and lowers without much effort and I don't see the fiberglass flexing like it's being continually stressed. I am going to brace it with a couple 2x4's and sail her for the season then make repairing the winch mount, installing a proper winch and put in a swing keel kit, for my winter project. I'm relieved to know that the structural air is not a fluke or a damaged mould and was part of the actual design. Who's bright idea was it to not add support for something designed to act as a winch mount for a 500 pound keel? It will be strong enough when I'm done. Looking pretty might be a stretch. We will see how I do.
Thanks again
Thanks again
I agree with Shawn except that I don't see a scenario where this is an easy job - at least not if the work is new to you. Though, admittedly, you don't know until you start removing material.
My concern is that I don't see anything that is encouraging that this might be localized damage.
I do not know the Catalina 22 well enough to say, but I would do some research to find out which parts of the cockpit, companionway bulkhead, and upper deck are cored or otherwise have integrated wood, and which are solid fiberglass. I would start with the assumption that any areas with a wood core, which are adjacent to the obvious damage, will also need to be repaired. It might not be that bad, but I would brace for that possibility.
You should satisfy yourself that you have traced all of the damage back to either dry wood or solid fiberglass. And, you should satisfy yourself that you know where the water ingress happened and that the source is addressed. (This might not be possible, especially since there might be a few different routes of ingress, but do your best.)
This will involve some fairly significant material removal. My knowledge ends here. That is, I don't know the structural implications of removing or replacing any given area, nor the best way to rebuild so that everything fits as it should. I know how I would do it, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about it to confidently give good advice in that area.
I will say this: My experience is that it is best to engineer major parts outside of the boat, then glass them in, rather than to try to build in-situ. This allows you to do a much better job, since you can work someplace comfortable. However, it does require you to carefully create a template and/or mold, so that the finished part fits.
My concern is that I don't see anything that is encouraging that this might be localized damage.
I do not know the Catalina 22 well enough to say, but I would do some research to find out which parts of the cockpit, companionway bulkhead, and upper deck are cored or otherwise have integrated wood, and which are solid fiberglass. I would start with the assumption that any areas with a wood core, which are adjacent to the obvious damage, will also need to be repaired. It might not be that bad, but I would brace for that possibility.
You should satisfy yourself that you have traced all of the damage back to either dry wood or solid fiberglass. And, you should satisfy yourself that you know where the water ingress happened and that the source is addressed. (This might not be possible, especially since there might be a few different routes of ingress, but do your best.)
This will involve some fairly significant material removal. My knowledge ends here. That is, I don't know the structural implications of removing or replacing any given area, nor the best way to rebuild so that everything fits as it should. I know how I would do it, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about it to confidently give good advice in that area.
I will say this: My experience is that it is best to engineer major parts outside of the boat, then glass them in, rather than to try to build in-situ. This allows you to do a much better job, since you can work someplace comfortable. However, it does require you to carefully create a template and/or mold, so that the finished part fits.
What is the weight of the keel?
If I was facing that job I would be planning to use 1/4" thick G10. Dig out all the rotten material you can, let it dry out, fill in with as many layers of G10 as will fit and epoxy and it will last forever. Put the G10 in so long side is vertical.
If I was facing that job I would be planning to use 1/4" thick G10. Dig out all the rotten material you can, let it dry out, fill in with as many layers of G10 as will fit and epoxy and it will last forever. Put the G10 in so long side is vertical.
I believe the Keel weighs 450 lbs.
Once I fill in the gap with the G10, how would you propose mounting the winch?
My guess is it is part of the frame for the companionway trim and threshold. I will start by removing the companionway trim down to the threshold because it needs finished and then I will support the keel with a jack stand, remove the winch and start digging into the warped 2x4 cross.member seeing if I can pop it free from the glass and if not, I'll cut it out. If it's part of the companionway framing I think we would be confident with a solid repair. I'm fairly skilled, as a mechanic and home inspector I have a couple tools for the job. I'm just not too boat savvy. I graduated from the family farm with a masters in redneck engineering. There doesn't appear to be anything that I'm tearing into that should cause the boat to sink it make it unsafe. As long as I get the correct winch and it's mounted securely, I'm good. I got it cheap, apparently not cheap enough. Oh well, it's a learning boat.
It looks to me that the most likely cause of the damage is because the heavy swing kill was allowed to free fall to its down position without restraint from the winch line. Easy enough done if you let go of the winch handle after releasing the ratchet pawl because it will spin like a Model T crank. Ratchet winches have always been less expensive than worm gear winches by about 1/3 and seldom put on boat trailers leading to the natural choice for boat manufacturers as a desired price point for keel winches. To resolve your problem remove the winch and replace it with a worm gear winch after you repair the damaged fiberglass companion way threshold. When you repair the fiberglass it will probably be obvious that you can prop the threshold up from below with a simple post that you can also make with fiberglass or a piece of wood. There may come a time that you will forget to put the keel down when you are in a hurry and ask a passenger to help you do that while giving them special instructions or warnings.
The keel free falling makes the most sense. If it were just wood rot, I don't think it would have buckled the glass, especially since the wood cross member is not supported by anything. It would have taken quite a slam to do that damage. Based on the location along with the weight of the keel, it clears up how it happened not I just need to fix it and make sure it doesn't happen again . Thanks for commenting, I appreciate it.
That's good to know. I'm feeling a lot more confident about making the repair thanks to yours and others' comments. I appreciate it and I'll add some photos of the repairs once they're completed.